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Flooding Damage - 8/7/2004 11:51:52 AM   
Xargun

 

Posts: 3690
Joined: 2/14/2004
From: Near Columbus, Ohio
Status: offline 		I have a couple questions concerning flooding damage...

1. Does the chance for increase of flt damage change if the ship is moving or not ? If so, does speed matter ?

2. If a ship is Docked (not disbanded) is the chance for increasing flt damage less ?

3. In a previous thread someone mentioned that ships with 50%+ sys damage have a chance each turn to get some flt damage. Is this true ?? What are the chances ? Does it affect ships in port ?

Thanks for the info

Xargun
Post #: 1
RE: Flooding Damage - 8/7/2004 4:40:33 PM   
2ndACR


Posts: 5665
Joined: 8/31/2003
From: Irving,Tx
Status: offline 		Xargun,

If you are still playing the IJN side, if you take float damage above 30% more than 6 hexes from a base your ship is toast.
The IJN crews have a bad habit of using can openers on the opposite side of their ships to let the water out.

I have yet to tell any difference about speed or not. My IJN ships just flood and sink if the 30% mark is reached at the above distance.

The bigger the port IIRC lowers the chance of flooding getting worse.

Not sure on some of the rest. I have only played as the IJN. And we all know the s**k really bad at DC.

(in reply to Xargun)
Post #: 2
RE: Flooding Damage - 8/7/2004 6:57:20 PM   
Mr.Frag


Posts: 13410
Joined: 12/18/2002
From: Purgatory
Status: offline
quote:

1. Does the chance for increase of flt damage change if the ship is moving or not ? If so, does speed matter ?

Being at sea matters, moving does not.

2. If a ship is Docked (not disbanded) is the chance for increasing flt damage less ?

Yes but not eliminated. The *size* of the port controls the odds.

3. In a previous thread someone mentioned that ships with 50%+ sys damage have a chance each turn to get some flt damage. Is this true ?? What are the chances ? Does it affect ships in port ?

Yes, Depends on Damage Control, Yes.

(in reply to Xargun)
Post #: 3
RE: Flooding Damage - 8/7/2004 7:37:04 PM   
Xargun

 

Posts: 3690
Joined: 2/14/2004
From: Near Columbus, Ohio
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: 2ndACR

Xargun,

If you are still playing the IJN side, if you take float damage above 30% more than 6 hexes from a base your ship is toast.
The IJN crews have a bad habit of using can openers on the opposite side of their ships to let the water out.

I have yet to tell any difference about speed or not. My IJN ships just flood and sink if the 30% mark is reached at the above distance.

The bigger the port IIRC lowers the chance of flooding getting worse.

Not sure on some of the rest. I have only played as the IJN. And we all know the s**k really bad at DC.


I really havent had that problem with flt damage... I've had ships travel quite a distance and make it to port with 60+ flt damage.. Usually they only sink if 70+ and move than a couple turns from a good port... Mostly I've seen subs survive with 50+ flt damage to make it to a small port (size 2) and they sit there til its all gone, then start the trip home for repairs.

It also seems that warships have better damage control than merchies... Is this true ?

Thanks for the answer Mr.Frag...

Xargun

(in reply to 2ndACR)
Post #: 4
RE: Flooding Damage - 8/7/2004 7:40:42 PM   
Toro


Posts: 578
Joined: 4/9/2002
From: 16 miles southeast of Hell (Michigan, i.e.), US
Status: offline 		To clarify:

1. I thought that flooding increased when moving (but ships will still try to fix damage, including flooding, when at sea), but perhaps it's just being at sea that causes it (per Mr Frag)

2. port must be size 3 or more to begin helping to reduce flooding (no promises, though -- ships can still sink in larger ports)

3. fires and flooding damage already present can increase damage (pg 105)

(in reply to Mr.Frag)
Post #: 5
RE: Flooding Damage - 8/7/2004 7:45:23 PM   
Xargun

 

Posts: 3690
Joined: 2/14/2004
From: Near Columbus, Ohio
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Toro

To clarify:

1. I thought that flooding increased when moving (but ships will still try to fix damage, including flooding, when at sea), but perhaps it's just being at sea that causes it (per Mr Frag)

2. port must be size 3 or more to begin helping to reduce flooding (no promises, though -- ships can still sink in larger ports)

3. fires and flooding damage already present can increase damage (pg 105)


1. From what Frag just said that being at sea is all that matters... moving or not is the same.. I assume being at sea is not docked at any size port.

2. I use Wake I (size 1 or 2 right now) to save my subs with damage from the PH area. The subs take forever (a week or more to lose 30 flt damage) but its safer there then trying to make Japan with that kind of damage. I am incresing Wake to a size 3 so I can disband them into the port - which I believe increases the repair rate... Everything else to do with repairs can happen at any port - just the larger the port the better/faster it will be..

3. Fires really cause a lot of sys damage, whereas I haven't seen much damage from flooding.. But then most of my ships with high flooding damage tend to sink...

Xargun

(in reply to Toro)
Post #: 6
RE: Flooding Damage - 8/7/2004 7:47:52 PM   
2ndACR


Posts: 5665
Joined: 8/31/2003
From: Irving,Tx
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Xargun

quote:

ORIGINAL: 2ndACR

Xargun,

If you are still playing the IJN side, if you take float damage above 30% more than 6 hexes from a base your ship is toast.
The IJN crews have a bad habit of using can openers on the opposite side of their ships to let the water out.

I have yet to tell any difference about speed or not. My IJN ships just flood and sink if the 30% mark is reached at the above distance.

The bigger the port IIRC lowers the chance of flooding getting worse.

Not sure on some of the rest. I have only played as the IJN. And we all know the s**k really bad at DC.


I really havent had that problem with flt damage... I've had ships travel quite a distance and make it to port with 60+ flt damage.. Usually they only sink if 70+ and move than a couple turns from a good port... Mostly I've seen subs survive with 50+ flt damage to make it to a small port (size 2) and they sit there til its all gone, then start the trip home for repairs.

It also seems that warships have better damage control than merchies... Is this true ?

Thanks for the answer Mr.Frag...

Xargun


Then my crews must be revolting due to me overworking them.

(in reply to Xargun)
Post #: 7
RE: Flooding Damage - 8/7/2004 7:50:33 PM   
Xargun

 

Posts: 3690
Joined: 2/14/2004
From: Near Columbus, Ohio
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: 2ndACR

Then my crews must be revolting due to me overworking them.


They may be... Are you talking merchies or warships ? And do you leave the ships in port to lower the flt damage before sending them back for repairs or send them right away ? I alway send any ship with decent flt damage (20-30+) to the nearest base (no matter what the size) to get the fires / flt under control and fixed before sending them on the long trip home.

Xargun

(in reply to 2ndACR)
Post #: 8
RE: Flooding Damage - 8/7/2004 8:08:19 PM   
Mr.Frag


Posts: 13410
Joined: 12/18/2002
From: Purgatory
Status: offline
quote:

1. From what Frag just said that being at sea is all that matters... moving or not is the same.. I assume being at sea is not docked at any size port.


Even anchored at a size 0 port (a shelter) is better then being at sea ... It is not just size 3+. Any size qualifies as "not being at sea".

The differences are that anchored/docked is not as good at repairs. It is better then nothing as it may help your crew get it under control.

< port size 3 means you can't disband so you can't get the repair crews going full out to try and save you.

quote:

3. Fires really cause a lot of sys damage, whereas I haven't seen much damage from flooding.. But then most of my ships with high flooding damage tend to sink...


Fires are bad, but water sinks ships ... Now one also needs to remember that ships are designed to take on water. All ships ever built are always sinking. This is the normal state of affairs. When a crew has to fight fires, they are rather busy and not as able to deal with flooding, but flooding itself is not all that damaging until it reaches dangerous levels and the ship is taking on more water then it can handle. Counter flooding to keep a ship level was extremely common, but there is only so much you can counter flood until the ship sinks.

(in reply to Xargun)
Post #: 9
RE: Flooding Damage - 8/7/2004 8:22:01 PM   
moses

 

Posts: 2252
Joined: 7/7/2002
Status: offline 		My CS ship took 25 or so flood damage near Lagaspi during the first week of war. I sailed toward Japan but ducked into a size 4 port as flood damage rose over 50. It got there around 20 Dec or so. Its now 28 Jan and I'm still fighting the flood damage. At one point it reached 78 points and I thought I was going to lose it. I brought in my AR ship and that seems to have helped a bit. I'm down to 38 flood damage now and it looks like it will survive.

Port repair of flood damage does need to be bumbed up a little. I realize that I will soon be told that a size 4 port only consists of 4 drunken sailors with a long rope to tie the ship to a tree. But since it takes several months and thousands of supply points to build a port to size 4 I think it must have at least some capability.

It's impossible for one person to test this since every situation is different and it takes too long to generate lots of examples. Even the worst results will just be attributed to bad luck. But as I look at the various cases in my games I've actually wondered if maybe small ports are working in reverse and actually increasing flood damage.

(in reply to Mr.Frag)
Post #: 10
RE: Flooding Damage - 8/7/2004 8:29:10 PM   
Mr.Frag


Posts: 13410
Joined: 12/18/2002
From: Purgatory
Status: offline
quote:

It's impossible for one person to test this since every situation is different and it takes too long to generate lots of examples. Even the worst results will just be attributed to bad luck. But as I look at the various cases in my games I've actually wondered if maybe small ports are working in reverse and actually increasing flood damage.


Japan has poor damage control ... If you want a fun game, turn off the Allied damage control and make them have that problem too.

The quicker you get into a port with low flooding, the less likely you'll get one of those progressive flooding rolls. Once you get into the progressive flooding catagory, it takes pretty much a size 10 port with AR's to save it and even then it is never a sure thing.

You can only bring so many ships alongside to help a sinking ship. Even today with all our fancy engineering improvements, ships still sink.

(in reply to moses)
Post #: 11
RE: Flooding Damage - 8/7/2004 8:55:18 PM   
moses

 

Posts: 2252
Joined: 7/7/2002
Status: offline 		Not disputing that Japan should have bad damage control. I am saying that what I see in the game and what I read in the forums suggests that there is a problem with JP flood control in ports. Should be checked.

(in reply to Mr.Frag)
Post #: 12
RE: Flooding Damage - 8/10/2004 10:52:19 PM   
RUPD3658


Posts: 6922
Joined: 8/28/2002
From: East Brunswick, NJ
Status: offline 		Another fluke is to have the captain of the ship reported as killed when the ship sank in port after fighting the flooding for over a week.

Seems silly to go down with the ship when it is tied to the pier.

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Post #: 13
RE: Flooding Damage - 8/10/2004 10:56:05 PM   
DrewMatrix


Posts: 1429
Joined: 7/15/2004
Status: offline
quote:

Seems silly to go down with the ship when it is tied to the pier.


He didn't "choose to go down with his ship" but was "overcome by smoke and fumes while battling the fire" or something like that.

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Post #: 14
RE: Flooding Damage - 8/10/2004 10:57:38 PM   
vonmoltke


Posts: 182
Joined: 10/27/2003
From: Bloomfield, NJ
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RUPD3658

Another fluke is to have the captain of the ship reported as killed when the ship sank in port after fighting the flooding for over a week.

Seems silly to go down with the ship when it is tied to the pier.

This was brought up a few weeks ago. The algorithm for determining if a captain is killed when a ship sinks does not differentiate between open sea and port, so you either have to change the skipper to someone expendable or scuttle the ship.

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Post #: 15
RE: Flooding Damage - 8/10/2004 11:00:41 PM   
Nikademus


Posts: 25684
Joined: 5/27/2000
From: Alien spacecraft
Status: offline 		scuttling saves you points too vs letting the ship sink on it's own

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Post #: 16
RE: Flooding Damage - 8/11/2004 1:28:43 AM   
bstarr


Posts: 881
Joined: 8/1/2004
From: Texas, by God!
Status: offline 		I'm curious: Does the AI ever scuttle?

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Post #: 17
RE: Flooding Damage - 8/11/2004 3:20:59 AM   
byron13


Posts: 1589
Joined: 7/27/2001
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quote:

ORIGINAL: bstarr

I'm curious: Does the AI ever scuttle?


Don't know about scuttling to save points when a ship is going to sink from damage, however . . .

I am playing the Allies and let the AI run the Brits. When Singapore was captured, the AI scuttled Prince of Wales, Repulse, and a number of DDs.

(in reply to bstarr)
Post #: 18
RE: Flooding Damage - 8/11/2004 3:23:09 AM   
Caltone


Posts: 651
Joined: 9/5/2001
From: Raleigh, NC USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Beezle

quote:

Seems silly to go down with the ship when it is tied to the pier.


He didn't "choose to go down with his ship" but was "overcome by smoke and fumes while battling the fire" or something like that.


I believe the Captain decided to do "that other thing" that Japanese officers did when faced with dishonor.

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Post #: 19
RE: Flooding Damage - 8/11/2004 3:49:06 AM   
byron13


Posts: 1589
Joined: 7/27/2001
Status: offline 		As an apparently extreme example of the Allied damage control: I had the Growler take 96 flotation points of damage just off the coast of Japan, and they made it home. The only thing I can think of is that the crushing weight of the water pouring in from starboard counterbalanced the water pouring in from port such that . . . the equalized pressure kept any water from coming in. That or only the forward torpedo room was water tight, the sub sank by the stern, and they lashed a sail to the four feet of bow sticking out of the water.

(in reply to Caltone)
Post #: 20
RE: Flooding Damage - 8/11/2004 5:04:35 AM   
Ron Saueracker


Posts: 12121
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From: Ottawa, Canada OR Zakynthos Island, Greece
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: byron13

quote:

ORIGINAL: bstarr

I'm curious: Does the AI ever scuttle?


Don't know about scuttling to save points when a ship is going to sink from damage, however . . .

I am playing the Allies and let the AI run the Brits. When Singapore was captured, the AI scuttled Prince of Wales, Repulse, and a number of DDs.


Realistic, huh? Toulon or what!? What was Cunningham's famous quote?..."Takes two years to build a ship but two hundred years to build a naval tradition." That went out the window with this result!

< Message edited by Ron Saueracker -- 8/11/2004 1:11:55 AM >

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