AtD:How to achieve a Desicive victory?

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AtD:How to achieve a Desicive victory? - 7/29/2004 2:01:00 AM

Clipper1968

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Joined: 7/22/2004
From: LA, Ca
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I have already played 4 Across the Dnepr campaigns as the germans and the best result I obtained is a soviet marginal victory.

Does anyone achieve a decisive victory?
My strategy is to surround and isolate soviet units, then destroy them with a minimal odds 7:1 in order to minimize losses.
But doing this delays the advance of my troops: I can not manage to achieve decisive break through which allows my forces to attack and gain control of towns and villages.At the end in spite of I have almost destroyed the russian army losing a few german units I lose the game as the AI keep the control of enough territories.

Has anyone a solution to obtain this damned decisive victory?

Thanks.

Post #: 1

RE: AtD:How to achieve a Desicive victory? - 7/31/2004 6:11:50 PM

parusski

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I only won a decisive victory after reading "Panzer Leader", Heinze Guderian.
He advocated pushing panzer and motorized infantry as deeply as possible-to certain objectives. Protect flanks with non-attached units. He also said that surronding the pockets of Russians was fine, it was the use of HUGE numbers of German units to reduce the pockets that was fatal. His view, and it works when I play AtD, is to surrond and let the enemy starve and run out of ammo. Use as few of your units to to this as possible.

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RE: AtD:How to achieve a Desicive victory? - 7/31/2004 7:15:52 PM

Clipper1968

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Joined: 7/22/2004
From: LA, Ca
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Thank you very much for your reply.

I will immediately try a new campaign following your wise advices.
Just get a last question:
Does this strategy generate much more lossses for the panzer and mechanized infantry units,which are pushing towards their objectives?I suppose that losses level remains acceptable otherwise you will not be able to gain control of the objectives.

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Post #: 3

RE: AtD:How to achieve a Desicive victory? - 7/31/2004 8:38:34 PM

parusski

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Weeeelllll, my answer to your question was overly simplistic. If you could get a copy of "Panzer Leader" then do so. But, it is a tough balancing act to prevent units from excessive losses and loss of supply lines. Here are a few lines from his excellent book.

"Crossing the Dnieper...Was I to continue my advance as rapidly as heretofore, cross the Dnieper with Panzer forces only, and attempt to reach my primary objective as quickly as possible..? Or should I, in view of measures the Russians were taking to consturct a defensive front along the line of the river, break off my advance and await the arrival of the infantry armies..?" "At that moment the Russina defense was...weak." "But it would be 14 days before our infantry arrived."

"I calculated the dangers of heavy counter-attacks on either flank-at Shobin and Senno-be broken off and those commanders watch the enemy to protect my flanks."

"I was so convinced of the vital importance and feasibility of the task assigned me....that I ordered an immediate attack across the Dnieper and the advance on Smolensk."

Now that probably will not help you decide exactly HOW to reach your goals, but I hope it gives you the idea of one of Hitler's best Generals' thoughts on the idea.

Once by-passed I find MOST of the Russian units do very little. So I await reinforcements to take care of them.

I think I should have waited to reply. Because there was a nice little tutorial I printed some time ago and it was helpful, BUT I can't remember the link and I did not save it.

Someone should surely be able to give you the link.

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Post #: 4

RE: AtD:How to achieve a Desicive victory? - 8/3/2004 3:55:34 PM

Real and Simulated Wars

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I do agree with Parusski about the operational principles writen in Panzer Leader. Please allow me to recomend you another superb book:
German Panzers on the Offensive, RHS Stolfi
The information and analysis of these books will put you in the mood to take Smolensk.
However, IMHO, the Russian troops in AtD are too mobile and reactive to your moves. This is not 100% bad, because it adds some challenge to the game. But I think, the game does not depict the alleged Russian command stiffness which allowed the Germans to pocket entire Russian armies.
Cheers,

< Message edited by Chelco -- 8/3/2004 2:33:41 PM >

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Post #: 5

RE: AtD:How to achieve a Desicive victory? - 8/3/2004 4:41:56 PM

Clipper1968

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From: LA, Ca
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Excellent suggestions.
It would greatly help me to achieve all the objectives as soon as I get time to restart the campaign.
I think one of my major mistake was only to be focused on the losses rate instead of rushing at these damned objectives with my PanzerGruppen.
Thanks both.

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Post #: 6

RE: AtD:How to achieve a Desicive victory? - 8/8/2004 3:57:57 PM

parusski

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well, the best thing regarding worrying about losses is to-IGNORE THEM-by avoiding them. Use every mobile unit(tank, infantry, assault gun....} to by-pass major russian formations. Be sure as your hauling a** to take out as many artrillery and supply trucks as possible. This will greatly weakenh the units you have bypassed.

If you can't spend the money to by all the books try your library.

Better yet, try amazon used books.

Here is a list of books I have referred to while figting any computer game dealing with the Eastern Front:

1. "Panzer Leader", Guderian(of course)
2. "German Panzers on the Offensive, RHS Stolfi "[Chelco is right on that one"
3. "Operation Barbarossa: Strategy and Tactics on the Eastern Front, 1941, by Bryan I. Fugate
4. "War Without Garlands:Operation Barbaossa 1941-1942" by Robert Keshaw. [Not great depth, but it touches on our subject just enough to be helpul.

I could go on and on, but I have not slept 35 hours.
Lets us know your progress.

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RE: AtD:How to achieve a Desicive victory? - 8/13/2004 7:17:27 PM

Real and Simulated Wars

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BTW parusski, tell us more details about how you get a decisive victory! I read all of those books but I still suck!
Are you able to take Orsha in less than 5 turns? Velizh?
Cheers,

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Post #: 8

RE: AtD:How to achieve a Desicive victory? - 8/14/2004 7:18:01 PM

parusski

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Oh, I suck too. I took about 15 games for me to get that decisive victory(think I did not mention that)

Besides the books already recommened You MUST read this one:
"Panzers on the Eastern Front: General Erhard Raus and His Panzer Divisions in Russia"
Edity by Peter G. Tsouras.

Let me replay another game and I will give the details.

BUT READ "Panzer Leader" and "Panzers on the Eastern Front"

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Post #: 9

RE: AtD:How to achieve a Desicive victory? - 8/15/2004 5:38:37 PM

Clipper1968

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I have already bought "War without Garlands:operation Barbarossa 1941-42" and "Panzers on the Eastern Front" at the bookstore and ordered through amazon "Panzer Leader" and "Operation Barbarossa:strategy and tactics on the Eastern Front 1941" that I am looking forward to read in order to improve my strategy.The last book "German panzers on the offensive" is unfortunately unavailable on this site yet, so I will order it later.

Thanks again for your suggestions.

Have you got any books recommandations relating to the Earstern Front for the period 1943-45?Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks to your detailed explanations

I have managed to get a marginal victory for my last campaign which represents the best result I have ever got (only marginal russians victory before, not even a draw: I was really a lousy guy

) Thanks again for your accurate and efficiency advices

However I am still wondering how you get this decisive victory as I have lost too much time taking control on the big cities of Smolensk and Vyazma.It took me 7 or 8 turns using 6 or 7 divisions supporting by a lot of artillery to take control on Smolensk as the 4 or 5 russians units are very well entrenched and even if I cut off their supply lines these units never retreated.Smolensk is a bottleneck which opens the road to Vyazma so what did you do to speed up the control over this city?Finally I reached and took control on Vyazma 3 turns within the end but I think it was too late.

So you were very lucky when you got your only decisive victory over 15 campaigns.

I hope you will be able to repeat this outstanding performance

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RE: AtD:How to achieve a Desicive victory? - 8/15/2004 9:51:30 PM

freeboy

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It would be nive to see a good aar of this, I won as Russian, and lost as the German twice..
Wolf seems a "better" balance... that is the wolf varient available free at ssg.com.au

< Message edited by freeboy -- 8/16/2004 3:53:06 AM >

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Post #: 11

RE: AtD:How to achieve a Desicive victory? - 8/30/2004 1:22:01 AM

parusski

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I thumped my chest and doomed myself. I have not won again. The AI is one of the best I have ever seen. So, I sit and wish I had those troops stationed in other parts of the world.............

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RE: AtD:How to achieve a Desicive victory? - 8/30/2004 1:42:01 AM

Clipper1968

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From: LA, Ca
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Bad luck

but I suppose you will try again...and again.

For myself I stopped playing until I have finished reading all these books you recommended me.
After that I will be able to get this decisive victory...

Hopefully...

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Post #: 13

RE: AtD:How to achieve a Desicive victory? - 8/30/2004 1:52:22 AM

parusski

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And I will try over and over.
I did create AtD2 with the editor. I just placed a few divisions that several German generals asked Hitler to send east. But that's not the way it happened

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RE: AtD:How to achieve a Desicive victory? - 9/13/2004 5:00:10 PM

Clipper1968

Posts: 445
Joined: 7/22/2004
From: LA, Ca
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Finally in my last game did I achieve a marginal victory? NO; a desicive victory? NO; a overwhelming victory? YES, OUI,OUI,OUI

I didn't believe my eyes when it has happened...

as I was only looking for a decisive victory that I would have already considered as an outstanding performance, but now it is EXTRAORDINAIRE,MERVEILLEUX!!!

I have finished the game with 2 997 points and destroyed all soviets units (377) losing only 10 of my units.

I got a maximum points after taking Smolensk and Mstislavl on time(turn 15) and pushed the advantage by capturing Rzhev, Vyazma and Kirov which brought me 600 additionnal points.

Parusski I will send you all the details relating to my game by PM probably by the end of this week. Thanks again for all your suggestions (books and strategy)

Now my mission is to repeat this extraordinary performance just to see if I was not only incredibly lucky...

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"s'instruire pour vaincre"

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Post #: 15

RE: AtD:How to achieve a Desicive victory? - 9/14/2004 1:55:20 AM

parusski

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pumba that's great. I have not been ignoring you or this thread, my job requires travel and I am NOT allowed to take my laptop. Keep me updated. I am going to start a new game next saturday, using my own advice and we will see.

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