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PBEM vs. AI - 1/17/2005 8:29:50 PM   
adsoul


Posts: 159
Joined: 6/4/2004
Status: offline 		Just curious... how many of us are playing only PBEM and how many AI? And why you chose former or latter way?

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Post #: 1
RE: PBEM vs. AI - 1/17/2005 8:38:39 PM   
Tom Hunter


Posts: 2194
Joined: 12/14/2004
Status: offline 		Only PBEM. Played AI to learn the systems but the AI is just too stupid in its approach. People are much more interesting to play.

(in reply to adsoul)
Post #: 2
RE: PBEM vs. AI - 1/17/2005 8:40:44 PM   
Jaws_slith


Posts: 615
Joined: 1/11/2002
Status: offline 		Both but like PBEM the most. Computer will always play and PBEM is mosly 1 or 2 turns a day.

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Good Hunting

(in reply to Tom Hunter)
Post #: 3
RE: PBEM vs. AI - 1/17/2005 8:40:52 PM   
Gen.Hoepner


Posts: 3645
Joined: 9/4/2001
From: italy
Status: offline 		i've been playing Ai for 4 months.Now that i discovered the PBEM i won't go back, even for all the gold of fort nox

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(in reply to Tom Hunter)
Post #: 4
RE: PBEM vs. AI - 1/17/2005 8:49:32 PM   
Thayne

 

Posts: 748
Joined: 6/14/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: adso

Just curious... how many of us are playing only PBEM and how many AI? And why you chose former or latter way?


Oh no! Here we go again! You realize that different religious factions have gone on holy wars against each other on this topic?

Let me try for a neutral answer:

I play against the AI. The reason is because I prefer to simulate the actual war. This means adopting all sorts of special rules and limiations that are historically accurate, but which get me slaughtered if I played against a PBEM opponent (unless I found one of comparable mentality -- which seem to be a very rare type of creature).

Advantages are:

(1) I can play when I want and how I want (meaning that I can adopt special rules that would hinder my success in a PBEM game and simply set my opponent's skills to a level to compensate)
(2) My computer is not going to drop the game in the middle because it is losing
(3) If I want to quit and start over -- or just quit (because I decide that I want to have a life), I am not disappointing anybody else by doing so.
(4) The game is faster . . . because I am not waiting for somebody else's moves.

Disadvantages are:

(1) The AI is not particularly inventive. I am not going to experience a sudden and brilliant maneuver against some forward base, or a very sophisticated opposition to my moves.

(2) The game includes very little of the experience of trying to figure out what my opponent is up to, anticipating his plans, or creating and executing an ambush.


There are many who prefer PBEM and who, in fact, have an annoying habit of using derogatory comments against any who do not play as they do.

There are clear merits to a PBEM game that make it worthwhile.

Advantages:

(1) You are playing an opponent that actually has a strategy. This means that the attack that shows up at location X is going to be fairly well coordinated and you had better take care as to what you are doing. Furthermore, your opponent is going to learn from its mistakes.

Disadvantages

(1) You have obligations to another human being that will constrain you to doing things you do not want to do when you just don't feel like doing them.

(2) One of the best ways to win a game is to use game components against your opponent. For example, the game has an "edge of the map" that can be used to put your opponent at a disadvantge. Plus, your opponent knows your capabilities far better than opposing leaders in the actual war could have dreamed of doing, and can easily put that knowledge to use in devising a strategy. PBEM games tend to be wildly non-historic.


I think that the disadvantages of PBEM outweigh the advantages. However, humans tend to come with diverse interests, and there are others for whom this is not true.

< Message edited by Thayne -- 1/17/2005 6:52:37 PM >

(in reply to adsoul)
Post #: 5
RE: PBEM vs. AI - 1/17/2005 8:50:56 PM   
Mr.Frag


Posts: 13410
Joined: 12/18/2002
From: Purgatory
Status: offline 		As with all things, too each, their own ... Lots of folks probably don't even come to the forum, forget about play each other

(in reply to adsoul)
Post #: 6
RE: PBEM vs. AI - 1/17/2005 10:03:49 PM   
ChezDaJez


Posts: 3436
Joined: 11/12/2004
From: Chehalis, WA
Status: offline 		I play against the AI. I would love to PBEM but until I can guarantee a daily 2-3 turn committment I'll stick with the AI.

Chez

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(in reply to adsoul)
Post #: 7
RE: PBEM vs. AI - 1/18/2005 1:16:46 AM   
The Gnome


Posts: 1233
Joined: 5/17/2002
From: Philadelphia, PA
Status: offline 		Play the AI for numerous reasons, but the bottom line is because I enjoy solo games.

Some of the reasons I enjoy solo play:
- Uneven play times. I might play for a month cranking out turn after turn, then switch to something else for a couple of months, and then come back and play some more.

- Experimentation. I like to play a turn or series of turns over and over, to play "what if" games. The game within the game if you will.

- Take my marbles and go home factor. Sometimes I just want to start over.

- I not expecting, and am not disappointed by the fact that the second coming of Otto Von Bismark isn't fighting against me. I just want to beat up on the AI punching bag for a while in order to blow off steam. I still want the AI to make credible moves, but I understand the limitations.

(in reply to ChezDaJez)
Post #: 8
RE: PBEM vs. AI - 1/18/2005 2:32:37 AM   
Knavey

 

Posts: 3052
Joined: 9/12/2002
From: Valrico, Florida
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ChezDaJez

I play against the AI. I would love to PBEM but until I can guarantee a daily 2-3 turn committment I'll stick with the AI.

Chez


Plenty of players out there who don't run 2-3 turns per day. Feinder and I vs. Ltfighter and Kbullard are normally about 2 turns every 3 days and our game vs. U2 is running about that rate also.

Most people in PBEM are running at least 2 games. Some even more than that. Trust me when I say you will have NO problem finding someone for a slower paced game.

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"Going slow in the fast direction"

(in reply to ChezDaJez)
Post #: 9
RE: PBEM vs. AI - 1/18/2005 2:37:01 AM   
2ndACR


Posts: 5665
Joined: 8/31/2003
From: Irving,Tx
Status: offline 		Learn to play as the Japanese. People are always looking for Japanese players. Allied players are a dime a dozen.

2 turns a day is about average for probably 90% of the PBEM players out there. There are a few around who can crank out 4-6 turns a day though.

The AI can be fun, but IMO nothing compares to having a sneaky, cunning, devious, cheating, vindictive human on the other side. PBEM all the way.

(in reply to Knavey)
Post #: 10
RE: PBEM vs. AI - 1/18/2005 7:05:58 AM   
scout1


Posts: 2899
Joined: 8/24/2004
From: South Bend, In
Status: offline
quote:

2 turns a day is about average for probably 90% of the PBEM players out there. There are a few around who can crank out 4-6 turns a day though.

The AI can be fun, but IMO nothing compares to having a sneaky, cunning, devious, cheating, vindictive human on the other side. PBEM all the way.


Have to agree with 2nd ACR (kinda). The 90% rule of players cranking out 2 turns a day seems kinda high to me (though I have NO data to support it). Having said, that, I do average 2 turns a day, BUT that is total, not per game. WitP is like eating potato chips. Once you start, you just keep going. I have 4 games going right now.

Frankly, I've started several games against the AI, but have always had trouble sticking with them for lack of interest. I've never had that problem against a human opponent. Something new/interesting always seems to develop. They are an interesting species, so unpredictable

(in reply to 2ndACR)
Post #: 11
RE: PBEM vs. AI - 1/18/2005 11:45:49 AM   
mogami


Posts: 12789
Joined: 8/23/2000
From: You can't get here from there
Status: offline 		Hi, I only did 11 turns yesterday. My normal output is around 14-15 turns per day. I have 7 active games so it's 2 per day. But 4 of the games are only 1 turn per day with the extra turns used by the others.
If I only had 1 game and it only did 1 turn I would be very bored.
The way you do PBEM to keep busy is start as many games as you need to provide enough turns.
When I log on in the morning I have 5 turns waiting. By the time I finsh 3 or 4 I have more. I stay busy all day.
Write an AAR of one of your games to fill in time. PBEM can keep you quite busy.

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I'm not retreating, I'm attacking in a different direction!

(in reply to scout1)
Post #: 12
RE: PBEM vs. AI - 1/18/2005 12:18:20 PM   
AmiralLaurent

 

Posts: 3351
Joined: 3/11/2003
From: Near Paris, France
Status: offline 		My usual output is 2-3 turns a day but I play 2-3 PBEM at the same time.

I stopped playing during 6 months, as I was always moving and has no more flat and Net connexion... and was not in mood playing to be honest. But I keep in touch with my opponents and will now finish an UV campain, while starting two WITP PBEM with the last patch.

In reply to Thayne, I don't think WITP can be called a historical game. It is a game, not a history book. And the AI will not be able to simulate anything of the real war, except perhaps the first months. I play to find a challenge and the only challenge I find is PBEM. Then there are enough people around here to find at least one people that will play like you. You will try some before picking the good one, but then you will find someone you will enjoy to play. Watch the AAR section, you will see that much people always play against the same opponents, and they played UV against each other before.

(in reply to mogami)
Post #: 13
RE: PBEM vs. AI - 1/19/2005 6:50:43 AM   
Thayne

 

Posts: 748
Joined: 6/14/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: AmiralLaurent
In reply to Thayne, I don't think WITP can be called a historical game. It is a game, not a history book. And the AI will not be able to simulate anything of the real war, except perhaps the first months.


I believe, as can be seen by reading my AAR "Thayne News Campaign Reports", that things are going fairly well. Though, one can still call this "the first months" of the war. I am up to July 20, 1942.

The game is not a history book. However, if I wanted to play science fiction, I would play Masters of Orion III. (Which, indeed, is a good game that I do, in fact, play when I want to play a science fiction game. I play this game because I enjoy history. I write that into my AAR.) There are no worries about historical accuracy in such a game. Nobody compares the capacities of the equipment to any "real world" counterpart.

Perhaps you are right and my AAR will come to an abrupt end as we discover that the game cannot handle the historical facts over time. But, I have not reached that point yet. If I do then, yes, I have in my mind hopes of finding a PBEM opponent whose gaming philosophy compliments my own.

However, that does raise a problem. If there is a person with a complimentary attitude (which, by the way, I am not as certain of as you seem to be), how do I know whether I have found them? What if I get 100 turns into a game with somebody with whom I am not compatible? I still have obligations. There are still a lot of risks involved. The chance of a 'ruined game' is not eliminated simply because one has a human opponent.

(in reply to AmiralLaurent)
Post #: 14
RE: PBEM vs. AI - 1/19/2005 6:57:42 AM   
Bodhi


Posts: 1267
Joined: 8/26/2003
From: Japan
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Thayne
However, that does raise a problem. If there is a person with a complimentary attitude (which, by the way, I am not as certain of as you seem to be), how do I know whether I have found them? What if I get 100 turns into a game with somebody with whom I am not compatible? I still have obligations. There are still a lot of risks involved. The chance of a 'ruined game' is not eliminated simply because one has a human opponent.


WitP ... marriage .. sound pretty similar.

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Bodhi

(in reply to Thayne)
Post #: 15
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