Advice needed

Matrix Games Forums

Forums Register Login Photo Gallery Member List Search Calendars FAQ

My Profile Inbox Address Book My Subscription My Forums Log Out

Advice needed

View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest

Users viewing this topic: none

Printable Version

All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> War In The Pacific - Struggle Against Japan 1941 - 1945 >> The War Room >> Advice needed

Page: [1] 2 next > >>

Message

<< Older Topic Newer Topic >>

Advice needed - 2/28/2006 9:54:46 AM

rroberson

Posts: 2050
Joined: 5/25/2004
From: Arizona
Status: offline

Im playing a game where I decided to let my japanese opponent run wild on the map. Its a japanese fan boy wet dream. he has taken everything from Noumea (we are in april 42) to Canton.

Thats not the problem. The problem is..he is using PDUs in full force, I have seen hundreds of Helens and Bettys fattening up against soft targets (training). Which is wonderful for him but darn awful for me.

The question is...what to do? There is no way I can even consider cracking his defense lines before 44. My carriers/warships would get eaten alive all those high experienced bombers. He has severed the supply line to australia and while its doubtful he'd invade (too many quality aussie divisions to eat his troops) there...lets just say the PM is ready to surrender the whole damn place. Now I know his supply situation is ugly (all those conversation had to hurt) but eventually he will get supply going.

It should be noted I still have all five of my carriers (amazing considering I sent several of them to strike tokyo and got away with it due to his lack of anti-shipping in the north).

In the meantime...there is nothing I can do...or is there?

_____________________________

Post #: 1

RE: Advice needed - 2/28/2006 10:18:34 AM

wild_Willie2

Posts: 2934
Joined: 10/8/2004
From: Arnhem (holland) yes a bridge to far...
Status: offline

quote:

Im playing a game where I decided to let my japanese opponent run wild on the map. Its a japanese fan boy wet dream. he has taken everything from Noumea (we are in april 42) to Canton

If he took that much you are NOT playing NIK mod, shipping capacity is HALVED there in order to prevent such things.....

_____________________________

In vinum illic est sapientia , in matera illic est vires , in aqua illic es bacteria.

In wine there is wisdom, in beer there is strength, in water there are bacteria.

(in reply to rroberson)

Post #: 2

RE: Advice needed - 2/28/2006 10:35:47 AM

Sneer

Posts: 2654
Joined: 10/29/2003
Status: offline

if he is extended to such degree he must be vulnerable in many places - i can imagine bombardment raids under cover of carrier fighters
remeber there are only enough groups for some 400 2e torpedo bombers in game / not counting 44y frances/ - and PDU cann't change it - part of them came later - so no more than 250 nells/bettys on map - cann't be strong everywhere. and your BB/CA + big CL are generally bomb proof for Helens and Sally 250kg bombs - you can smash at least few bases + a/c there - use weather - most players find that there is enormous amount of bad weather days in game - there is even not enough patrol planes to have all pacific searched
just remember to hit and run as he will be able to mass in 2-3 days

_____________________________

(in reply to wild_Willie2)

Post #: 3

RE: Advice needed - 2/28/2006 10:59:47 AM

rroberson

Posts: 2050
Joined: 5/25/2004
From: Arizona
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: wild_Willie2

quote:

Im playing a game where I decided to let my japanese opponent run wild on the map. Its a japanese fan boy wet dream. he has taken everything from Noumea (we are in april 42) to Canton

If he took that much you are NOT playing NIK mod, shipping capacity is HALVED there in order to prevent such things.....

No we are playing the Nik mod...I forced him to support his landings with either LBA or cruisers. He did quite a good job at both :).

_____________________________

(in reply to wild_Willie2)

Post #: 4

RE: Advice needed - 2/28/2006 1:51:57 PM

Przemcio231

Posts: 1901
Joined: 10/11/2005
From: Warsaw,Poland,EU:)
Status: offline

The answer is Simple just upgrade everything you have to 4E and bomb him out of Existance

_____________________________

Pinky: Hey Brain what are we goeing to do this evening?
Brain: The Usual Pinky we will try to take over the World;)

(in reply to rroberson)

Post #: 5

RE: Advice needed - 2/28/2006 2:11:37 PM

wild_Willie2

Posts: 2934
Joined: 10/8/2004
From: Arnhem (holland) yes a bridge to far...
Status: offline

quote:

No we are playing the Nik mod...I forced him to support his landings with either LBA or cruisers. He did quite a good job at both :).

Has he taken the ENTIRE SRA AND the south pacific

, He can't have taken Manilla and Singapare AND the south pacific with the transports he had available at the beginning ??

_____________________________

In vinum illic est sapientia , in matera illic est vires , in aqua illic es bacteria.

In wine there is wisdom, in beer there is strength, in water there are bacteria.

(in reply to Przemcio231)

Post #: 6

RE: Advice needed - 2/28/2006 2:14:13 PM

Przemcio231

Posts: 1901
Joined: 10/11/2005
From: Warsaw,Poland,EU:)
Status: offline

Willie where is my turn

_____________________________

Pinky: Hey Brain what are we goeing to do this evening?
Brain: The Usual Pinky we will try to take over the World;)

(in reply to wild_Willie2)

Post #: 7

RE: Advice needed - 2/28/2006 4:25:18 PM

Nikademus

Posts: 25684
Joined: 5/27/2000
From: Alien spacecraft
Status: offline

The farther out he spreads his tentacles, the easier they are to chop off at the tips. He can't be strong everywhere at once and if his supply situaiton is ugly, then coupled with being overextended makes him ripe for counterattack. Canton is probably the best location for a counterattack but i'd also make him work to take PM.

_____________________________

(in reply to rroberson)

Post #: 8

RE: Advice needed - 2/28/2006 6:39:22 PM

rroberson

Posts: 2050
Joined: 5/25/2004
From: Arizona
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: wild_Willie2

quote:

No we are playing the Nik mod...I forced him to support his landings with either LBA or cruisers. He did quite a good job at both :).

Has he taken the ENTIRE SRA AND the south pacific, He can't have taken Manilla and Singapare AND the south pacific with the transports he had available at the beginning ??

Manilla struggles on ...frankly I don't believe he is injurying himself to take Manilla. He is using it as a training ground for the millions of Helens I see.

_____________________________

(in reply to wild_Willie2)

Post #: 9

RE: Advice needed - 2/28/2006 6:43:54 PM

rroberson

Posts: 2050
Joined: 5/25/2004
From: Arizona
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nikademus

The farther out he spreads his tentacles, the easier they are to chop off at the tips. He can't be strong everywhere at once and if his supply situaiton is ugly, then coupled with being overextended makes him ripe for counterattack. Canton is probably the best location for a counterattack but i'd also make him work to take PM.

I think PM is secure unless he makes a hard push at it with full carrier support. His training program has allowed me to project where his flat tops are (he bombing areas with kates and vals too ). SO it has allowed me a lot of freedom of motion. MY Tokyo operation started off as commerce raiding, knowing his anti shipping and carrier air were all strung out in the south and south west pacific. I never got spotted so I took it on in to the home islands....sadly the raid failed (I smashed a single CVE and several transports) at a pretty heavy cost. Your flak works well against TBDs :).

I have looked at Canton, the problem there is he has the majority of his fleet carriers within 2 days sailing time. to take that on I believe I would need all six of mine, plus the willingness to lose half of them to LBA anti-shipping strikes...that doesnt seem real appetisizing this early in game. I don't know, I'd like to hurt him somewhere....

_____________________________

(in reply to Nikademus)

Post #: 10

RE: Advice needed - 3/1/2006 6:53:17 AM

Oznoyng

Posts: 818
Joined: 4/16/2004
From: Mars
Status: offline

Japan in the situation you describe has too many defensive requirements and not enough forces. He is either spread thinly (defeat in detail) or concentrated at nodal positions (hit him where he ain't). Your foray into shipping lanes was an example of what to do. "Only" netting a CVE is nothing to moan about. As the saying goes, "A ship here, a ship there, pretty soon you're talking a fleet." I am not suggesting repeating the same raid, but I can tell you that I have areas I worry about being able to defend, and I haven't taken nearly what your opponent has.

In your shoes, I would nibble at Japan. Rush in, do some damage, run like a girl. Attack locations where you can do some damage without undue risk to your forces. Rinse and Repeat in different areas and different ways. Never push a bad situation (do not continue a raid if your raid TF is spotted, for instance).

_____________________________

"There is no Black or White, only shades of Grey."
"If you aren't a part of the solution, you're a part of the problem."

(in reply to rroberson)

Post #: 11

RE: Advice needed - 3/1/2006 8:33:55 AM

rroberson

Posts: 2050
Joined: 5/25/2004
From: Arizona
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Oznoyng

Japan in the situation you describe has too many defensive requirements and not enough forces. He is either spread thinly (defeat in detail) or concentrated at nodal positions (hit him where he ain't). Your foray into shipping lanes was an example of what to do. "Only" netting a CVE is nothing to moan about. As the saying goes, "A ship here, a ship there, pretty soon you're talking a fleet." I am not suggesting repeating the same raid, but I can tell you that I have areas I worry about being able to defend, and I haven't taken nearly what your opponent has.

In your shoes, I would nibble at Japan. Rush in, do some damage, run like a girl. Attack locations where you can do some damage without undue risk to your forces. Rinse and Repeat in different areas and different ways. Never push a bad situation (do not continue a raid if your raid TF is spotted, for instance).

tis a good strategy to be sure... I had started off the game smacking his supply lines around (knowing how stretched they were) I pounded several of his tankers into the waves...now trying to contend with all those bettys...:)...not fun.

Im working through a new approach right now...Ill let you guys know how it goes.

_____________________________

(in reply to Oznoyng)

Post #: 12

RE: Advice needed - 3/1/2006 9:45:05 AM

aztez

Posts: 4031
Joined: 2/26/2005
From: Finland
Status: offline

I'am having similar game againts Erstad. He is moving around with force and at the moment there is not much I can do about.

I know he must be streched somewhere but it is still risky to even think anykind of counter offensives.

(in reply to rroberson)

Post #: 13

RE: Advice needed - 3/1/2006 2:31:42 PM

wild_Willie2

Posts: 2934
Joined: 10/8/2004
From: Arnhem (holland) yes a bridge to far...
Status: offline

quote:

tis a good strategy to be sure... I had started off the game smacking his supply lines around (knowing how stretched they were) I pounded several of his tankers into the waves...now trying to contend with all those bettys...:)...not fun.

In NIK mod, betty's are LEATHAL against carriers, they are far more likely to break through your CAP and score a torp or two against your carriers.. On the allied side I had weakly escorted fokker float torpedo bombers break through the KB CAP and they hit a CVL with a 500lbs bomb for 40 sys damage

. Get his carriers into range of ANY of your bombers and they ARE going to take a beating....
Glad I am on the JAP side of NIK MOD....

< Message edited by wild_Willie2 -- 3/1/2006 2:32:14 PM >

_____________________________

In vinum illic est sapientia , in matera illic est vires , in aqua illic es bacteria.

In wine there is wisdom, in beer there is strength, in water there are bacteria.

(in reply to aztez)

Post #: 14

RE: Advice needed - 3/1/2006 4:02:38 PM

Nikademus

Posts: 25684
Joined: 5/27/2000
From: Alien spacecraft
Status: offline

You might change that opinion once you are facing carrier strikes containing both SBD's and TBF's.

_____________________________

(in reply to wild_Willie2)

Post #: 15

RE: Advice needed - 3/1/2006 7:04:57 PM

rroberson

Posts: 2050
Joined: 5/25/2004
From: Arizona
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: wild_Willie2

quote:

tis a good strategy to be sure... I had started off the game smacking his supply lines around (knowing how stretched they were) I pounded several of his tankers into the waves...now trying to contend with all those bettys...:)...not fun.

In NIK mod, betty's are LEATHAL against carriers, they are far more likely to break through your CAP and score a torp or two against your carriers.. On the allied side I had weakly escorted fokker float torpedo bombers break through the KB CAP and they hit a CVL with a 500lbs bomb for 40 sys damage . Get his carriers into range of ANY of your bombers and they ARE going to take a beating....
Glad I am on the JAP side of NIK MOD....

The one thing I have done quite well in this game is pound his round bottom ships. I joke with him all the time how his transport captains must hate him. I know that is going to have an affect down the line...surviving to get down the line will be entertaining to say the least. I have a couple operations in the works now...my opponent is a high volume player so it won't take long to see them come about (we play 5 or 6 turns a day...which is very nice)

< Message edited by rroberson -- 3/1/2006 7:05:17 PM >

_____________________________

(in reply to wild_Willie2)

Post #: 16

RE: Advice needed - 3/1/2006 7:42:26 PM

AmiralLaurent

Posts: 3351
Joined: 3/11/2003
From: Near Paris, France
Status: offline

Sallies and Helens are not a problem for Allied ships, Betties are. All you have to do is wait for the Corsair and then roll on.

And as someone said, turn your BG into Heavy BG and bomb all these Japanese bombers on the ground. Your option is to advance under LBA cover, that is in Solomons/New Guinea or N of Australia.

(in reply to rroberson)

Post #: 17

RE: Advice needed - 3/1/2006 8:11:47 PM

Nikademus

Posts: 25684
Joined: 5/27/2000
From: Alien spacecraft
Status: offline

G4M's (like all 2E's in the mod) will be tougher to bring down in the mod Rrobie is playing but they arn't uber. A G4M force attacking for example a late 42 USN CV with updated AA, a couple CLAA's and a good number of F4F-4's will suffer heavily unless they have a heavy escort and even then AA will take a bloody toll of the bombers. They do after all, remain unarmored beasties and arn't nearly as tough as say, B-25's or 26's.

However, given that all it takes is 1-2 torpedoes to ruin your day, and given that you'll see much more "leakers" in the mod (vs. 'the shield') Players are strongly encouraged to think twice before sailing into the range of Japanese LBA if it's known to be intact and strong.

_____________________________

(in reply to AmiralLaurent)

Post #: 18

RE: Advice needed - 3/1/2006 9:48:26 PM

niceguy2005

Posts: 12523
Joined: 7/4/2005
From: Super secret hidden base
Status: offline

Speaking from strictly a game enjoyment standpoint, I love that the Betties are as lethal as they are to shipping. Betties and Nells even the odds a lot for the Japanese. They make it difficult for allied transports to advance without fighter cover from carriers and of course, then your exposing your carriers to massed TB strikes.

_____________________________

Artwork graciously provided by Dixie

(in reply to Nikademus)

Post #: 19

RE: Advice needed - 3/1/2006 10:22:07 PM

Nikademus

Posts: 25684
Joined: 5/27/2000
From: Alien spacecraft
Status: offline

in some ways it was awfully nice of the Japanese to provide us with such a juicy target (lunga) so far away from their nearest major airbase.

Also gives you an idea of why the oft criticized Jack Fletcher was so wary of exposing his precious CV's.

_____________________________

(in reply to niceguy2005)

Post #: 20

RE: Advice needed - 3/1/2006 10:37:16 PM

niceguy2005

Posts: 12523
Joined: 7/4/2005
From: Super secret hidden base
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nikademus

in some ways it was awfully nice of the Japanese to provide us with such a juicy target (lunga) so far away from their nearest major airbase. Also gives you an idea of why the oft criticized Jack Fletcher was so wary of exposing his precious CV's.

Indeed, one of my recent opponents learned that lesson first hand when 62 Betty's sent Lexington to the bottom of the ocean.

Although, I have to say that I think the historical troop deployments of Japan in the Solomons is horrible. The almost complete lack of good supporting airbases there make the proper defense of Lunga very difficult. Because of the lack of fighter support (because of the lack of good fighter bases at Shortlands, Munda Point or Buin), the toll on the Bettys is unnecessarily high.

_____________________________

Artwork graciously provided by Dixie

(in reply to Nikademus)

Post #: 21

RE: Advice needed - 3/2/2006 2:30:03 PM

AirGriff

Posts: 701
Joined: 10/11/2004
Status: offline

Just curious. Exactly how are you hitting his transports? Are you interdicting them with LBA, or using your CV's?

I'm having a similar style game with the Alan map, and my opponent is cleaning house. It's early Feb and he's about to literally leave me with New Zealand and Australia and that's it!

What I might suggest, judging from what I wish I had done, is pick a spot out there in SOPAC area to make a stand while you can. Suva's good, and Samoa. They both have at least a little interlocking airfields. You have to throw a speed bump in there somewhere. My opponent is a master of using a tiny little force to grab little out of the way bases. You could do the same. I'm working on it, but it's late in the day for me. The good news is, he's going to get very low on good pilots at this rate. I think you should try to attrit his pilot pool even at a poor loss ratio for you. It will come back to you tenfold down the road.

(in reply to rroberson)

Post #: 22

RE: Advice needed - 3/2/2006 6:51:57 PM

rroberson

Posts: 2050
Joined: 5/25/2004
From: Arizona
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: AirGriff

Just curious. Exactly how are you hitting his transports? Are you interdicting them with LBA, or using your CV's?

I'm having a similar style game with the Alan map, and my opponent is cleaning house. It's early Feb and he's about to literally leave me with New Zealand and Australia and that's it!

What I might suggest, judging from what I wish I had done, is pick a spot out there in SOPAC area to make a stand while you can. Suva's good, and Samoa. They both have at least a little interlocking airfields. You have to throw a speed bump in there somewhere. My opponent is a master of using a tiny little force to grab little out of the way bases. You could do the same. I'm working on it, but it's late in the day for me. The good news is, he's going to get very low on good pilots at this rate. I think you should try to attrit his pilot pool even at a poor loss ratio for you. It will come back to you tenfold down the road.

During his initial land grab the British and Dutch pounded his shipping from their bases in DEI. As the war wore on I watched the dutch exp levels jump up and every time they went out they would score one or two hits against his tranports. It wasnt a matter of if ...but how often they would put bombs into his round bottoms.. At the same time I tracked where his carriers were and use mine to cut through his supply lines more then once catching unescorted tranports. As he was making his big push into the SOPAC he ran into Canton Island which I had some time to build up and I fought him hard there (made a mistake in the defense thinking he was withdrawing after many days of fighting and counterattacked ...the resulting dispruption allowed him to attack the next day and 23K defenders walked into captivity). He paid heavily in tankers for Canton though which was satisfying.

By the way he has seized everything in south pac...Suva, Samoa are long his. MY line of defense begins at Palmaya and runs through MIdway. Australia is currently completely cut off as he has carriers marading around in the trade lanes in the south so I don't even consider supplies to Oz or New Zealand right now.

Like I said, I have a couple of smaller operations in the offing right now based on a few of the comments here. Ill let you know how the go...one will probably happen sometime tonite...the other within a week or so.

< Message edited by rroberson -- 3/2/2006 6:52:48 PM >

_____________________________

(in reply to AirGriff)

Post #: 23

RE: Advice needed - 3/2/2006 10:40:44 PM

ny59giants

Posts: 9869
Joined: 1/10/2005
Status: offline

If he is playing so much in the SOPAC, what is going on in India?? You can send a convoy from Karachi down to Oz with supplies and fuel. The British DD's are at 8 for ASW rating, so any subs are gone if they run into them.

As the Allies, I am extremely careful where I send the CV's until after the mid-42 upgrade and fighters expansion to 36 planes.
Convert some PBY squadrons to the Coronado to get max search range and place in northern NZ and Palmyra (plus other strategic places). Many Allied players forget to use them and they just build up.

Strategy wise - hit and run for now. Plan to take back Canton or other SOPAC islands in fall of '42.

(in reply to rroberson)

Post #: 24

RE: Advice needed - 3/2/2006 11:26:10 PM

rroberson

Posts: 2050
Joined: 5/25/2004
From: Arizona
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

If he is playing so much in the SOPAC, what is going on in India?? You can send a convoy from Karachi down to Oz with supplies and fuel. The British DD's are at 8 for ASW rating, so any subs are gone if they run into them.
As the Allies, I am extremely careful where I send the CV's until after the mid-42 upgrade and fighters expansion to 36 planes.
Convert some PBY squadrons to the Coronado to get max search range and place in northern NZ and Palmyra (plus other strategic places). Many Allied players forget to use them and they just build up.

Strategy wise - hit and run for now. Plan to take back Canton or other SOPAC islands in fall of '42.

Burma-India has seen hordes of Helen bombers "training" against Commonwealth troops. I have reinforced Mandalay heavily with Commonwealth and Chinese troops. THe level 9 fort (nik mod) will make that very painful for him to take. He will take it if he wants it though. India, he has primarly harrassed me with his airborne troops...nothing serious more like recon by force...which I stomp out immediately (I held a sizeable amount of troops in Indian in case he pulls a PZB).

all silent on the CBI front so far.

_____________________________

(in reply to ny59giants)

Post #: 25

RE: Advice needed - 3/2/2006 11:33:00 PM

Nikademus

Posts: 25684
Joined: 5/27/2000
From: Alien spacecraft
Status: offline

darn that PzB.....he's ruined it for us future Conquors of India

_____________________________

(in reply to rroberson)

Post #: 26

RE: Advice needed - 3/3/2006 12:19:53 PM

Raverdave

Posts: 6520
Joined: 2/8/2002
From: Melb. Australia
Status: offline

Stay the course, and keep your powder dry until '43. Until then look at a number of different skewerpoints and build up your forces in those areas. Come D-Day hit him from 3 or 4 different points with all the force that you can muster. He will crap his pants for sure.

_____________________________

Never argue with an idiot, he will only drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

(in reply to Nikademus)

Post #: 27

RE: Advice needed - 3/3/2006 12:34:07 PM

Sneer

Posts: 2654
Joined: 10/29/2003
Status: offline

and I need to wait another half of year to see combat in our game Raverdave ....

_____________________________

(in reply to Raverdave)

Post #: 28

RE: Advice needed - 3/3/2006 12:48:52 PM

Raverdave

Posts: 6520
Joined: 2/8/2002
From: Melb. Australia
Status: offline

Actually just over two months.

_____________________________

Never argue with an idiot, he will only drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

(in reply to Sneer)

Post #: 29

RE: Advice needed - 3/3/2006 4:42:37 PM

rroberson

Posts: 2050
Joined: 5/25/2004
From: Arizona
Status: offline

The RN showed the flag in Rangoon last nite. Sank several smaller ships (sweepers and PCs) and shot up some transports. I was after the airfield and in that the raid was dissappointing...think I only knocked out about 3 of those helens, did kill about 500 of his troops. Got another operation on the burner, hope it comes off by monday.

_____________________________

(in reply to Raverdave)

Post #: 30

Page: [1] 2 next > >>

All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> War In The Pacific - Struggle Against Japan 1941 - 1945 >> The War Room >> Advice needed

Page: [1] 2 next > >>