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Battles - 4/11/2005 8:42:22 AM

Hostun

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When a tactical battle is running, is the game paused on global map ?

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RE: Battles - 4/11/2005 4:42:29 PM

ericbabe

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Yes.

Everything is turn-based. The game structure is such that all players enter their orders (orders phase), then the orders are carried out (movement phase). Battles occur during the movement phase.

Eric

(in reply to Hostun)

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RE: Battles - 4/14/2005 8:57:08 PM

Darksky

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how much wide will be usually the tact-combat map ? I.e. how many hexes x hexes ?

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RE: Battles - 4/14/2005 9:36:05 PM

ericbabe

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This size is 40x40. We experimented with many different sizes. I was concerned that detailed battles would take too long. 40x40 was the best size we found to give players room enough to maneuver, but not so much room that tactical battles turn into a game of hide and seek. Players usually start close enough to each other that they encounter each other and begin shooting by the third round of the detailed battle, though occasionaly (such as when fighting in one of the heavily forested provinces, in the winter, with no cavalry) contact can take a bit longer.

Eric

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Post #: 4

RE: Battles - 4/14/2005 10:35:57 PM

Darksky

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Will be take in consideration the "elevation" of single hex ( i.e. for best spotting, artillery LoF and range, and so on ).

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RE: Battles - 4/15/2005 4:10:08 AM

Forward_March

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ON detatiled battle, what is the unit size we're dealing with? ...since 40X40 hexes would seem a bit crowded with companies of skirmishers all about.

P.S. I'd just like to thank Ericbabe for his speedy anwers to questions.

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RE: Battles - 4/15/2005 3:58:59 PM

ericbabe

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We only have two elevations. Being elevated affects sighting, targeting, and many other things.

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RE: Battles - 4/15/2005 4:06:39 PM

ericbabe

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Combat is at the division level, though divisions may split into two separate units and deploy at different locations on the map.

"Skirmishers deployed" is a state that a unit can enter. It doesn't create a separate skirmisher unit. Combats at the division level must include some degree of abstraction since, realistically, a division has a theoretical maximum of around 10,000 men and at any scale we could reasonably do would probably be deployed over several hexes in various formations and locally would have very different states of skirmish, supply, and morale. To keep it playable we abstract all this at the division level.

Large battles have perhaps 20-30 units per side (which includes some garrison and supply caisson units). Depending on the starting situation battles tend either to have one large line or to break into several smaller battles at different locations. We tested quite a bit to adjust the map to what we felt was just the right size to give players room to maneuver, but not so much room that battles would take eight hours of real time to resolve.

Eric

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Post #: 8

RE: Battles - 5/6/2005 3:51:37 PM

2gaulle

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if battle are at division level, I don't understand why you have so many different figure type. Unless your unit are grouped by division , light, lancer, horse art, ingener etc dosn't look like necesssary.

(hope you didn't made light infantry division for exemple!)

At a stategic level all you need are Infantry light/heavy cavalry and reserve art figure

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RE: Battles - 5/6/2005 4:30:17 PM

Le Tondu

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2gaulle,

It seems to me that at the Strategic level, what is shown is much simpler than what is shown at the battle/ tactical level. I think that you possibly might be confusing what is shown at the two different levels.
Rick

< Message edited by Le Tondu -- 5/6/2005 11:47:25 PM >

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RE: Battles - 5/6/2005 8:24:17 PM

steveh11Matrix

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Besides, at the Strategic level you definitely don't need the animated figures!

Steve.

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Post #: 11

RE: Battles - 5/6/2005 11:48:02 PM

Le Tondu

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quote:

ORIGINAL: steveh11Matrix

Besides, at the Strategic level you definitely don't need the animated figures!

Steve.

They're not 3D are they?

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Post #: 12

RE: Battles - 5/7/2005 4:37:49 PM

2gaulle

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what it the scale of the tactical battle hex?
is there only one unit by division?

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Post #: 13

RE: Battles - 5/7/2005 6:19:04 PM

Le Tondu

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quote:

ORIGINAL: 2gaulle

what it the scale of the tactical battle hex?

Not sure. I didn't see it mentioned on their website. I does say however that the tactical map is 50x50 instead of the 40x40 that I've seen elsewhere.

quote:

ORIGINAL: 2gaulle
is there only one unit by division?

See below

quote:

ORIGINAL: ericbabe

Combat is at the division level, though divisions may split into two separate units and deploy at different locations on the map.

"Skirmishers deployed" is a state that a unit can enter. It doesn't create a separate skirmisher unit. Combats at the division level must include some degree of abstraction since, realistically, a division has a theoretical maximum of around 10,000 men and at any scale we could reasonably do would probably be deployed over several hexes in various formations and locally would have very different states of skirmish, supply, and morale. To keep it playable we abstract all this at the division level.

Large battles have perhaps 20-30 units per side (which includes some garrison and supply caisson units). Depending on the starting situation battles tend either to have one large line or to break into several smaller battles at different locations. We tested quite a bit to adjust the map to what we felt was just the right size to give players room to maneuver, but not so much room that battles would take eight hours of real time to resolve.

Eric

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Post #: 14

RE: Battles - 5/7/2005 6:36:35 PM

2gaulle

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quote:

Not sure. I didn't see it mentioned on their website. I does say however that the tactical map is 50x50 instead of the 40x40 that I've seen elsewhere.

sound to me important to know the scale

quote:

Combat is at the division level, though divisions may split into two separate units and deploy at different locations on the map.

is there only one unit by hex?

also that means somewhere there is artillery division as it's the only way to show artillery

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Post #: 15

RE: Battles - 5/8/2005 7:01:28 AM

Le Tondu

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In this screenshot, it appears that there is four divisions in each hex.

http://www.west-civ.com/snapshots/CrownOfGlory_Snap7.jpg

This one as well.

http://www.west-civ.com/snapshots/CrownOfGlory_Snap6.jpg

Same here. (This one looks as though there is something that looks like Horse Artillery, but no Line Artillery.)

http://www.west-civ.com/snapshots/CrownOfGlory_Snap5.jpg

None of these screenshots show any division of artilley. There also doesn't seem to be a hex with just a single division in it. (One screenshot had a hex with three divisions though. Perhaps ericbabe can help enlighten us?

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RE: Battles - 5/9/2005 5:43:11 PM

Mr. Z

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quote:

None of these screenshots show any division of artilley. There also doesn't seem to be a hex with just a single division in it. (One screenshot had a hex with three divisions though. Perhaps ericbabe can help enlighten us?

Just to clarify for everyone, these are the NATO chits. Four chits are used to represent each division (i.e. each unit--they're roughly equivalent) using the chit-view. This lets us use the chits to communicate information such as formation (sqare, line, etc.) I believe this is what our chit-view will look like moving forward, but ericbabe can correct me if I am wrong.

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Post #: 17

RE: Battles - 5/9/2005 5:50:05 PM

James Ward

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No chit I'm really looking forwad to this game!

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RE: Battles - 5/9/2005 6:41:23 PM

ericbabe

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quote:

None of these screenshots show any division of artilley. There also doesn't seem to be a hex with just a single division in it. (One screenshot had a hex with three divisions though. Perhaps ericbabe can help enlighten us?

Detailed combat is one unit per hex. In the chit view, each unit (whether a division or a split-division) is shown with four chits arranged to show formation.

There are artillery units that are treated in the same way we treat divisions of infantry and cavalry -- they are individual units on the strategic level and detailed level, are produced, moved, attached in a similar manner to inf/cav.

Eric

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Post #: 19

RE: Battles - 5/9/2005 11:05:44 PM

Le Tondu

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(My questions are in regards to the detailed or "tactical" level.)

Just how big will this artillery unit be if it and only it can be on a specific hex? How many guns would we be talking about here?

If an artillery unit is occupying a hex, will an infantry unit be able to go there too --assuming that a hex is only big enough to have a single division sized unit on it?

The handling of artillery is a concern of mine. For instance, a French division had some foot and horse artillery as an integral part of the division's organisation. The French also had artillery at the Corps and Army level. (The Prussians never had any at the Army level thoughout the entire Napoleonic Era.) What happens to the Prussians is important to me.

--OR is the division level artillery ability taken into account when we see a division on the screen in specific hex? Meaning, the division's artillery is "there." We just don't "see" it on the screen as an individual unit.

< Message edited by Le Tondu -- 5/10/2005 12:18:23 AM >

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RE: Battles - 5/9/2005 11:12:42 PM

Panzeh

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Infantry divisions, from what I've heard, have a long-range 'artillery' attack that would be out of the range of muskets at this scale.

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RE: Battles - 5/10/2005 12:54:32 AM

Mr. Z

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quote:

Just how big will this artillery unit be if it and only it can be on a specific hex? How many guns would we be talking about here?

Eric can give you an exact figure, but I believe it's a few dozen. [edit to add: but this also represents many soldiers--I believe the manual currently says up to 3000 men]

quote:

If an artillery unit is occupying a hex, will an infantry unit be able to go there too --assuming that a hex is only big enough to have a single division sized unit on it?

No. Also remember that when a unit/division occupies a hex, this is sort of an abstraction--divisions of course could be spread quite widely, so the hex is a sort of center-of-gravity for the division.

quote:

For instance, a French division had some foot and horse artillery as an integral part of the division's organisation. The French also had artillery at the Corps and Army level.

Yep. Eric can cover this in more detail. Basically we've had to simplify how we present and deal with different sorts of units somewhat.

quote:

--OR is the division level artillery ability taken into account when we see a division on the screen in specific hex? Meaning, the division's artillery is "there." We just don't "see" it on the screen as an individual unit.

I suppose you could look at it that way.

< Message edited by Mr. Z -- 5/10/2005 1:02:53 AM >

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RE: Battles - 5/10/2005 3:24:10 AM

siRkid

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Does facing count? Can you flank a unit? Are there diffrent formations?

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RE: Battles - 5/10/2005 7:06:00 AM

ericbabe

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kid

Does facing count? Can you flank a unit? Are there diffrent formations?

Yes x 3.

Eric

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RE: Battles - 5/10/2005 2:29:09 PM

siRkid

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ericbabe

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kid

Does facing count? Can you flank a unit? Are there diffrent formations?

Yes x 3.

Eric

Ok sign me up for a copy!

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RE: Battles - 5/10/2005 6:39:46 PM

ancient doctor

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3000 men for division are few.Are you sure the units are representing regiments/brigades?Anyway it seems that units arent ad-hoc formations but instead one type of weapons only is that correct?If it is may i say that i prefer divisions that have(as they should)several types of troops like an infantry division which will dominate its infantry part but will also has organic artillery and cavalry.Anyway how do you measure the strenght of unit,is it abstracted or there are real number of men/equipment which lower with casualties?
BTW how siege comabt is working,is there a tactical screen for it as well?

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RE: Battles - 5/10/2005 8:57:23 PM

CushVA

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How big are typical battles in the game (as in troops per side)?

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RE: Battles - 5/10/2005 10:33:02 PM

Mr. Z

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quote:

3000 men for division are few.Are you sure the units are representing regiments/brigades?

The question I was responding to was about artillery divisions.

quote:

Anyway it seems that units arent ad-hoc formations but instead one type of weapons only is that correct?

They're treated that way by the game. Again, if you want to, you can imagine the infantry divisions, for example, containing different sorts of soldiers.

quote:

Anyway how do you measure the strenght of unit,is it abstracted or there are real number of men/equipment which lower with casualties?

Unit strengths are real and specific.

quote:

BTW how siege comabt is working,is there a tactical screen for it as well?

Eric can answer this better than I can, but there is no tactical-level resolution for sieges, though it was considered early on. Instead it's resolved as a game action at the strategic level, based on a number of variables.

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RE: Battles - 5/12/2005 3:11:23 PM

huzzah

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Hi, new to this forum and very interested in CofG. I'd been very interested in Imp. Glory but heard about this game from somebody on that forum.

Aside from the screenshots, will we see some movies of some battle resolutions? I'd like to see how they play out in motion.

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Post #: 29

RE: Battles - 6/10/2005 1:42:02 AM

Gratch

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You state that an inf div is at a maximum 10000 men. What is the range? 1-10000? How about cav? How will leaders affect tac play? Will nations start with actual armies of the starting date? How long from conscrpition to trained? How will experience affect gameplay? Will you take in consideration the rest of the world, ie USA and colonies for economic impact?

I sure hope your game is better than Imperial Glory, what a crap! But so far your game sounds a lot better, what will the prize be?

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Post #: 30