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Mouse/Cursor Delay - 4/28/2005 9:00:41 AM   
RedMike


Posts: 1281
Joined: 3/14/2002
From: Alaska
Status: offline 		There seems to be an excessive amount of time between mouse input and cursor movement. I'd guess about a second by the old "1000 and one" method. Is there any way to fix this problem ?

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RE: Mouse/Cursor Delay - 4/28/2005 10:04:10 AM   
offbase

 

Posts: 29
Joined: 4/11/2005
Status: offline 		I have this prob, too. I did eliminate the primary video problem by uninstallng and downloading the updated full digi-installer. However, the mouse prob remains, and the diagdx came out perfect ... no probls.

(in reply to RedMike)
Post #: 2
RE: Mouse/Cursor Delay - 4/28/2005 2:51:09 PM   
Erik Rutins

 

Posts: 37503
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: Vermont, USA
Status: offline 		I've only seen this happen generally on systems that are below the minimum spec, which I assume is not the case for either of you. Have you tried running it in a lower resolution and lower color depth to see if performance improves?

Regards,

- Erik

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For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

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Post #: 3
RE: Mouse/Cursor Delay - 4/28/2005 3:19:20 PM   
z1812


Posts: 1796
Joined: 9/1/2004
Status: offline 		Hi All,

I have the same problem. But only in game. It works fine in the menu and other sections.
A fix would be appreciated. Great game.

Regards John


(in reply to RedMike)
Post #: 4
RE: Mouse/Cursor Delay - 4/28/2005 4:27:44 PM   
Deride


Posts: 488
Joined: 6/21/2004
From: Dallas, TX
Status: offline 		If you are experiencing performance issues with the mouse, please let me know what your system specs are (especially video card.) As always, make sure you have the latest video card drivers.

As Erik suggested, you might also want to run the game in 1024x768x16 mode to get a baseline of performance. When you can see the entire battlefield, we are really pushing a lot of information onto the video card, so this can impact performance.

Deride

(in reply to z1812)
Post #: 5
RE: Mouse/Cursor Delay - 4/28/2005 5:29:27 PM   
mbelew


Posts: 315
Joined: 6/21/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RedMike

There seems to be an excessive amount of time between mouse input and cursor movement. I'd guess about a second by the old "1000 and one" method. Is there any way to fix this problem ?


I also suggest turning off shadows from the options menu.

(in reply to RedMike)
Post #: 6
RE: Mouse/Cursor Delay - 4/28/2005 7:56:27 PM   
z1812


Posts: 1796
Joined: 9/1/2004
Status: offline 		Hi All,

I have a 2.8 intel p4 with a Radeon 64 mb video card and 512 ram. So my specs are well up to running the game.

I am running the game in 1024 x 768 x 32. I will change it to 1024 x 768 x 16.

As I have said I only encounter this in game play not in any menu screen. And only in this game.

Regards John

< Message edited by z1812 -- 4/28/2005 7:58:58 PM >

(in reply to Deride)
Post #: 7
RE: Mouse/Cursor Delay - 4/28/2005 9:40:56 PM   
RedMike


Posts: 1281
Joined: 3/14/2002
From: Alaska
Status: offline 		I'm running a P4 at 2.26 Ghz, Nvidia GeForce FX 5600XT 126 mb card, 512 mb RAM, XP Home edition SP2. I have the current Nvidia driver installed.

I tried setting the game resolution at 1024 x 768 16 bit 60 hz but there's no difference I can see between that and 32 bit. I'll try turning off shadows and see if that helps. It's not like it's unplayable, just annoying. The cursor is very syrupy.

Regards,
RedMike

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Post #: 8
RE: Mouse/Cursor Delay - 4/28/2005 10:44:33 PM   
offbase

 

Posts: 29
Joined: 4/11/2005
Status: offline 		I'm running an hp pavilion lapper (zv5405) with the new 64 bit AMD chip at 2Ghz, 512 mb ram, and GeForce 440 with a month-old N-Vidia driver. Same beefs as above. Plenty of performance with the machine, no probs with any other games, including Al, GG'sWaW, Gates of Troy, Wow, etc. It's only this game, and, as above, only in game mode, not in menus. It seems to me this game might require a 128mg GPU and a very recent chipset to run properly.

(in reply to RedMike)
Post #: 9
RE: Mouse/Cursor Delay - 4/28/2005 11:47:59 PM   
Adam Parker


Posts: 1848
Joined: 4/2/2002
From: Melbourne Australia
Status: offline 		I've 512 MB RAM too and though not yet running this game, I did find map scrolling in W@W sluggish. (My 128MB Video RAM isn't an issue).

I feel that the system RAM sweetspot now is 1G and any system sold with 512 (the standard 18 months ago) should be mandatorily upgraded by the vendor or be on offer at a discount.

(in reply to offbase)
Post #: 10
RE: Mouse/Cursor Delay - 4/29/2005 12:16:40 AM   
RedMike


Posts: 1281
Joined: 3/14/2002
From: Alaska
Status: offline 		I wish! It would cost me $600.00 bucks to go from my 4 128 mb sticks to 2 512 mb sticks.

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Post #: 11
RE: Mouse/Cursor Delay - 4/29/2005 2:50:21 PM   
HobbesACW


Posts: 419
Joined: 2/20/2004
From: UK
Status: offline 		I was just about to post a topic about this - glad to see it's not just me.

A very floaty, slow feel to mouse movement. I was just wondering if there is any way to speed it up. It's a very annoying problem in an otherwise excellent game.

P IV 2.5, 512 RAM, 128 FX 5200

Also fine in menu's - don't notice much difference with lower graphics, no shadows.

Many games come with mouse speed selectors - I don't see any options to change it
in this game though?



< Message edited by hobbes -- 4/29/2005 2:57:12 PM >

(in reply to RedMike)
Post #: 12
RE: Mouse/Cursor Delay - 4/29/2005 4:36:26 PM   
Deride


Posts: 488
Joined: 6/21/2004
From: Dallas, TX
Status: offline 		DirectX uses a library called DirectInput to determine mouse movement speed. We are using this standard library to sample the location of the mouse.

Again, if you are seeing a sluggish mouse, I would assume that you have a lower frame rate -- especially if this just happens during the battle. Other than going to 1024x768x16 and removing shadows, I don't know what else to recommend for better frame performance.

Make sure you have the latest video card drivers for your system. In some cases this may help. You can also increase your mouse sensitivity within the Mouse control panel.

If you go to www.fraps.com, you can download a utility that allows you to view framerates while running games/applications. When running TS:JC, if your framerate drops below 15 or so, you will get sluggish performance.

Deride

< Message edited by Deride -- 4/29/2005 4:42:26 PM >

(in reply to HobbesACW)
Post #: 13
RE: Mouse/Cursor Delay - 4/29/2005 6:42:10 PM   
offbase

 

Posts: 29
Joined: 4/11/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Deride

DirectX uses a library called DirectInput to determine mouse movement speed. We are using this standard library to sample the location of the mouse.

Again, if you are seeing a sluggish mouse, I would assume that you have a lower frame rate -- especially if this just happens during the battle. Other than going to 1024x768x16 and removing shadows, I don't know what else to recommend for better frame performance.

Make sure you have the latest video card drivers for your system. In some cases this may help. You can also increase your mouse sensitivity within the Mouse control panel.

If you go to www.fraps.com, you can download a utility that allows you to view framerates while running games/applications. When running TS:JC, if your framerate drops below 15 or so, you will get sluggish performance.

Deride

************************
Not to sound like a griper, but many of us have that problem, and with 64 mg 3d cards, which the game is advertised as working with. If we meet the requirements set by Matrix, I think we're entitled to assume that the game will run properly when we buy it. I have never encountered so many problems with a game in my life having met or exceeded all of the technical requirements for play. This is rivaling "Darklands" (remember that one?) on the aggravation scale. Not that it's a "bad" game (I think it's great, when you can play it), but I think it was rushed into release and needed more extensive beta testing on a variety of machines. I also think that unless changes are made to lower the amount of video resources used, you need to change your advertized requirements both to require a NVidia5+ chipset or equivalent and/or 128 mg of video memory. This is the only game I have such problems with, I have a hard drive full of newly-released games, including WoW, GGWaW, etc., all of which are pretty graphics-intensive.

PS: I have an AMD 64 chip running under XP, 512 mg ram, and NVidia GeForce 440 64 mg GPU with a 30-day old driver, so there is absolutely NO stating that my machine doesn't meet the advertised system requirements.

< Message edited by offbase -- 4/29/2005 6:47:23 PM >

(in reply to Deride)
Post #: 14
RE: Mouse/Cursor Delay - 4/29/2005 7:03:18 PM   
Erik Rutins

 

Posts: 37503
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: Vermont, USA
Status: offline 		Offbase,

Please give it a chance to work through the normal tests. I've run it here on worse hardware than yours without any mouse lag, so there may be something else at work. Is anything else running that might interfere? Have you tried turning off anti-aliasing and anisotropic filtering in your driver to see if that makes any difference?

I understand you've had a difficult time with Julius Caesar but it's nothing like Darklands. I owned that game, loved it in many ways, suffered through the bugs in others. Julius Caesar to date has had one installer glitch and some apparently slow mouse performance for some customers. That's not even in the same ballpark, let alone the same country as Darklands, in my personal opinion.

Alexander, the previous release, had exactly one patch which was when the first significant bug of any kind was discovered a few months after release. I think if you give this title a chance, you'll find it's one of the most stable you've played.

Regards,

- Erik

_____________________________

Erik Rutins
CEO, Matrix Games LLC



For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

Freedom is not Free.

(in reply to offbase)
Post #: 15
RE: Mouse/Cursor Delay - 4/29/2005 11:05:32 PM   
RedMike


Posts: 1281
Joined: 3/14/2002
From: Alaska
Status: offline 		OK, I tried setting my Nvidia card to High Performance instead of Highest Quality, and set both Antialiasing and Antisotropic filtering to application controlled from 4X. This did indeed speed up the mouse even at 1024 x 768, & 32 bit color with Shadows enabled. However, the screen becomes wavy during movement so in the end I prefer the syrupy mouse. I just trey to use the keyboard whenever possible instead of the floating mouse.

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Post #: 16
RE: Mouse/Cursor Delay - 4/29/2005 11:27:31 PM   
RedMike


Posts: 1281
Joined: 3/14/2002
From: Alaska
Status: offline 		I reset everything the way I like it:

Nvidia GeForce FX 5600XT 128 mb 4X GPU
Forceware driver 71.84

1024 x 768
32 bit
Highest Quality
4X Antialiasing
4X Antisotropic filtering
Shadows enabled

And ran Fraps (cool utility!) and got 30ish+ fps in the menu and 10-12 fps during play.
I shall now adjust the settings and see what I get. I'll keep you posted.

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Post #: 17
RE: Mouse/Cursor Delay - 4/30/2005 1:00:16 AM   
Deride


Posts: 488
Joined: 6/21/2004
From: Dallas, TX
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: offbase
Not to sound like a griper, but many of us have that problem, and with 64 mg 3d cards, which the game is advertised as working with. If we meet the requirements set by Matrix, I think we're entitled to assume that the game will run properly when we buy it. I have never encountered so many problems with a game in my life having met or exceeded all of the technical requirements for play.


Offbase,

I can understand your frustrations. Again, minimum technical requirements mean that the game will run on your machine, but it does not gaurantee that you will experience crisp results. (For example, Windows XP requires 64 MB of RAM, but we all know that you really need 256 MB or more to run it smoothly -- many machines come today with 512 MB or 1 GB standard so that you can actually do something other than run the standard operating system.) Equally, when you pick up a copy of PCGamer, they will display the minimum requirements along with recommendations when reviewing games.

When creating the minimum requirements for the game, we once discussed making it 128 MB video RAM, but we eventually decided against it after having a number of beta testers try it our on their 64 MB machines. They all found performance to be acceptable, so we put that as minimum technical spec. (I certainly recommend a 128MB card for best performance.)

Just to further explain the video memory issue. We decided to create beautifully detailed individual units. For example, when you see a legion of 6 stands, you will often see at least 2 or more different figures as part of that legion. Most games, on the other hand, would have each and every infantry unit looking the same. Unfortunately, having individual units causes the video memory to be used up -- as each unit needs to be loaded onto the card to draw it. That makes our game a bit more video memory dependent than some other games you may be playing.

Deride

(in reply to offbase)
Post #: 18
RE: Mouse/Cursor Delay - 4/30/2005 1:32:03 AM   
Budge4


Posts: 77
Joined: 4/29/2005
From: Coventry, England
Status: offline 		Dont think its memory guys, im running Julius Caesar with 512mb of system ram and its smooth as anything, does'nt drop below 75fps (usually stays around the 90's) with roughly 20 units on screen and thats in 1152x864x32. Processor is 3.2 but think its the graphics card thats the big difference-Nvidea 6800gt. Have had a few graphics cards and processors in this system over past few years inc mx440, geforce2 pro, ti4600, ati9700 pro and having a good graphics card definately has the edge on having a super fast processor. Noticed in game specs it just recommends 64 meg graphics card, rather than name one or two ideal minimum spec ones that can run the game at an acceptable framerate, think there is such a gap between bottom of the range and top of the range graphics cards even with 64mb on them that the game specs could be a bit more precise maybe.

Budge

< Message edited by Budge4 -- 4/30/2005 1:47:22 AM >

(in reply to RedMike)
Post #: 19
RE: Mouse/Cursor Delay - 4/30/2005 9:35:34 PM   
Deride


Posts: 488
Joined: 6/21/2004
From: Dallas, TX
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Budge4
Dont think its memory guys, im running Julius Caesar with 512mb of system ram and its smooth as anything,


Budge,

Sorry if my post was confusing. I did not mean system RAM (e.g., 512MB or 1GB). I mean purely video RAM, which is 32 or 64 MB in older cards (about 2 years old now), 128 MB in most of today's cards and 256MB in today's upper end cards. You can purchase a 128MB video card today for as little as $50 for most systems (normally around $100 to $150 for some really nice cards.) Of course, there is a much bigger issue for folks who have laptops -- where you really have no choice in upgrading video card memory.

It has always been our intent to support as wide a variety of systems as possible. Again, we did test to make sure that the game ran well on 64MB video cards. We will certainly be looking into anything that we can do to help achieve better performance. I will personally be spending some time in the next week or two at the mouse cursor code to ensure that it is working as intended. However, anyone that can confirm their framerates with a sluggish mouse would be the most helpful. If you drop below 15 frames or so, the sluggishness is likely a matter of having a 32/64MB video card. (Again, you can check your frame rate for any program/game by getting FRAPS at www.fraps.com.)

Deride

(in reply to Budge4)
Post #: 20
RE: Mouse/Cursor Delay - 4/30/2005 10:11:14 PM   
HobbesACW


Posts: 419
Joined: 2/20/2004
From: UK
Status: offline 		Hi, I have updated my graphics driver and tried increasing mouse speed
in control panel but it makes no difference in game.
I downloaded the fraps software. The frame rate is around 39. My FX 5200
is 128 mb.

The mouse speed just seems about 25% slower than it should ideally be
(actually in the menus as well as the game). Sluggish.

The scrolling of the map is fine but even when I am looking at a static
screen the mouse movement is too slow.

Maybe this is not a performance issue?
What determines the speed of the cursor in a game?

Maybe it has just been set too low for my liking.
I assume that is why some games make mouse cursor speed definable by the user.
It's still playable - but this detracts a lot from my enjoyment of the game.



(in reply to Deride)
Post #: 21
RE: Mouse/Cursor Delay - 5/1/2005 12:45:28 AM   
Deride


Posts: 488
Joined: 6/21/2004
From: Dallas, TX
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: hobbes
The frame rate is around 39. My FX 5200
is 128 mb.

The mouse speed just seems about 25% slower than it should ideally be
(actually in the menus as well as the game). Sluggish.


Hobbes,

With the frame rate that you are currently seeing, the mouse should be responding normally. You are reporting that the mouse speed is the same across menus and in-game -- and this is what I would expect under your circumstances. (Where frame rate is not an issue.)

As far as mouse speed is concerned, DirectInput reports the amount the mouse has moved. And, I believe that it uses the sensitivity of the mouse based on your Windows settings. If a game were to provide additional sensitivity settings, they could just speed up or slow down the number provided by DirectInput. That is not something that we have implemented with the game, but it is certainly a feature that we could look into for future releases.

Deride


(in reply to HobbesACW)
Post #: 22
RE: Mouse/Cursor Delay - 5/1/2005 3:21:13 AM   
HobbesACW


Posts: 419
Joined: 2/20/2004
From: UK
Status: offline 		It would be great if you could speed it up - but the Windows setting does not seem to make any difference.

Thanks, Chris


< Message edited by hobbes -- 5/1/2005 3:22:15 AM >

(in reply to Deride)
Post #: 23
RE: Mouse/Cursor Delay - 5/1/2005 9:24:30 PM   
Budge4


Posts: 77
Joined: 4/29/2005
From: Coventry, England
Status: offline 		Is there a link here perhaps with the make of mouse or the mouse software thats actually being used with the problem ones. Im using microsoft mouse with intellimouse software ver 4.10, running with no problems.

Budge

< Message edited by Budge4 -- 5/10/2005 5:36:16 AM >

(in reply to HobbesACW)
Post #: 24
RE: Mouse/Cursor Delay - 5/9/2005 7:07:58 PM   
6971grunt


Posts: 427
Joined: 3/31/2005
From: Ya sure, you betcha
Status: offline 		Running into same problem with my MS mouse. I starts out fine, but quickly resorts to a rather annoying delay. Hope this gets some attention and soon

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Post #: 25
RE: Mouse/Cursor Delay - 5/9/2005 7:34:35 PM   
Erik Rutins

 

Posts: 37503
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: Vermont, USA
Status: offline 		When you say it starts out fine, is that on the map or only on the main game menu screen?

Regards,

- Erik

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Erik Rutins
CEO, Matrix Games LLC



For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

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(in reply to 6971grunt)
Post #: 26
RE: Mouse/Cursor Delay - 5/9/2005 11:53:43 PM   
6971grunt


Posts: 427
Joined: 3/31/2005
From: Ya sure, you betcha
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

When you say it starts out fine, is that on the map or only on the main game menu screen?

Regards,

- Erik


Its fine on the main menu, but shortly after I get on the map it starts its stall. So my mouse does not start stalling immediately, but shortly into the game - i.e., one or two unit moves.

_____________________________

"Over?! It's not over until we say it's over. Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?!" John Blutarsky from the Movie "Animal House"

(in reply to Erik Rutins)
Post #: 27
RE: Mouse/Cursor Delay - 5/10/2005 12:50:38 AM   
Erik Rutins

 

Posts: 37503
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: Vermont, USA
Status: offline 		Have you already tried the other recommendations regarding running in the lowest available resolution, turning off shadows, etc.? Thanks.

Regards,

- Erik

_____________________________

Erik Rutins
CEO, Matrix Games LLC



For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

Freedom is not Free.

(in reply to 6971grunt)
Post #: 28
RE: Mouse/Cursor Delay - 5/10/2005 9:55:48 PM   
HobbesACW


Posts: 419
Joined: 2/20/2004
From: UK
Status: offline 		I just started Rome Total War and I noticed the same sort of lag in the strategic screen only (In fact it is even worse and I have all the graphic options set to the minimal possible)

I looked at the support forum and saw the note below which looked promising.
However after trying the 76.10 driver I don't notice any improvement. I might try the 75.90 sometime in the next few days - if anyone has any sucess please let me know.
(How can I look and see what version of the driver I have installed?)

Do all the people having lag problems have Nvidia cards?
Cheers, Chris


ROME TOTAL WAR FORUM NOTE :-
Mouse lag and Nvidia Cards ????

Maybe the common factor in the mouse lag issue is the Geforce 4 graphics
card which I have or maybe Nvidia cards in general?

Does anyone have the mouse lag problem who DOESN'T have an Nvidia card?

Steve
Jimus
Registered User
Posts: 228
(2/10/05 4:52 pm)
Re: Mouse lag and Nvidia Cards ????

Nope. It's always just been with nVidia cards.. It was supposed to be fixed
in the patch.. but...

-Jimus-
EGGO
Registered User
Posts: 2
(2/24/05 2:47 am)
Re: Mouse lag and Nvidia Cards ????

Try installing the latest Nvidia beta drivers 75.90. They got rid of my
mouse lag and now the campaign map is smooth as silk
tullos
Registered User
Posts: 1
(3/5/05 11:59 pm)
Re: good tip for mouse lag

I was also getting bad mouse lag and scrolling problems with beta 71.84 and
was going to roll back to 66.93 but seeing tip on 75.90 installed modified
driver for 5700 fx card and now the game races....thanks for the tip

link to Alliance of Overclocking Arts site for modified driver

http://files.aoaforums.com/index.php?dir=138


(in reply to Erik Rutins)
Post #: 29
RE: Mouse/Cursor Delay - 5/10/2005 10:05:38 PM   
6971grunt


Posts: 427
Joined: 3/31/2005
From: Ya sure, you betcha
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

Have you already tried the other recommendations regarding running in the lowest available resolution, turning off shadows, etc.? Thanks.

Regards,

- Erik


Yes I have with no results - except no more shadows. Hope this can be solved - game's great

_____________________________

"Over?! It's not over until we say it's over. Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?!" John Blutarsky from the Movie "Animal House"

(in reply to Erik Rutins)
Post #: 30
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