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Newbie questions - 10/21/2005 9:52:09 PM   
silodhlehan

 

Posts: 43
Joined: 10/17/2005
Status: offline 		I've been playing fo rweeks now close to a month but I have a few questions.


1 First Partisans


I've read pages 45, 103
and I'm not sure how they work.

One time I needed over 10 in england to quell them. Some turns [bad ones] I had less infantry on the russian front. Do they ever scale down? Or if england adds 4 a turn does it just go on forever. if I keep to the pop value can it ever quell them or is that a lost cause?

Seems silly to have more troops worrying bout partisans than fighting. when the germans had 30 divs in france it was to guard against the allies not partisans. Plus partisans are active in the game sooner than the war where they didn't do much before june 22 1941.

In the above game I put off attacking russia 2 turns to quell english partisans? Did I get hammered by russians.

Most partisans were sleepers and would co-ordinate with WA or Soviets. "John has a long moustache"
I think was the call to arms in the longest day [Cornelius Ryan]. I think they should be scaled if anything where you start with the pop value and drop one a turn til it stays at one. but they didn't really do that much damage in most places.

Not hundreds of them there. I think the only place they tied up a lot of troops were Yugoslavia and in Russia. I mean who is air dropping them sten guns if the RAF is wiped off the continent? rule 13.1.4 just doesn't tell me much.


+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

2 in one game I was WA and the axis attacked norway and bounced. Does norways population do anything for me? Is it just to determine partisans. I kept possesion of norway the whole game do they just give me a resource?

Would be nice to build a factory to harness that.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

3 China
Is there a way to coax the japs to attack inland in China.
I played them 6 times and only once did the japs move inland. Factories go off like is it 8 times during the war. None of this fully active in 42, 44, 48 for the Chinese.

Sometimes I attacked the coast, some fell right back, left a factory open no troops....

Seems hopeless to me.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

4 op fire

Do units carrying out op fire fire once a turn or can one well placed artillery take out 20 infantry units ships. etc?

Do they ever lose it seems silly to me that arty would work so well when the only time I can remember it really working was I think the Hipper in norway. Did any major alied ship get sunk during normandy? I know that air power in malta was effective but arty? I hate sailing past malta and the warning comes up go 10 miles from the island or 20 the med is wider than that?

Books on the canadian beaches say the sea air bombardment had little effect on bunkers it was the pbi's who cleared them out.

Plus if a lone airplane is making a dozen op fire attacks do ships etc get their normal shots back they don't seem to?

In short I think it should be a normal combat. what are the mechanics?



+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

If someone could help me I would appreciate it. Even to point out an old thread.
Post #: 1
RE: Newbie questions - 10/21/2005 10:14:40 PM   
JanSorensen

 

Posts: 3684
Joined: 5/2/2005
From: Aalborg, Denmark
Status: offline 		1. Partisans
Each turn a number of partisans is generated equal to the pop value.
Each turn each of your inf/mil/arm/para destroy one partisan.

Thus as long as you have enough troops present and supplied continually it does not get worse. If you get behind during one turn though (due to lack of supply or just having too few troops present) then those excess partisans from last turn will still be there forcing you to use more troops to suppress them. Once suppressed again you are back to normal though.

Mind, sometimes its better just to abandone a province than continue to control the partisans.

2. Norway
The population wont do anything for you. Its only used to determine partisans when Germany controls Norway. As for the resource its just like any other resource you have. If you convoy it to one of your factories its part of your pool.

3. China
No, there is no real way for the Chinese to coax the AI Japanese player (not to my knowledge). If you play against a human you may be able to place your Chinese badly enough that it will entice your opponent but thats about it. The choice is 100% up to the Japanese player and in most games he likely wont take it.

4. Op-fire
I concur that this is no easy part of the game to understand or come to terms with.

Any unit can opfire as many times per turn as its triggered. Subs will use 1 torp each time though - and Art that opfires on invading units will get worse from use. Apart from that there is no restriction.

"Plus if a lone airplane is making a dozen op fire attacks do ships etc get their normal shots back they don't seem to?"
There is no return fire. While this may seem odd you have to realise that it would be alot worse if there was return fire. In that case you would seem op-fire triggered with the intend of hurting the enemy. Thats absolutely in contrast to the intended effect from op-fire namely to make movement harder. If the game had been face to so your opponent could select when he wanted to op-fire and when not it would be different - but thats not the case here.

What I think one has to realise is that the limitations from the turn based system means that some things have to be abstracted so the phasing player does not have completely free reign. Op-fire is that abstraction. It may not be perfect - but it definitely adds some of the difficulty to moving that would seem reasonable. Asking that each occusation make perfectly sense is probably too much though. You should consider the overall effect rather than the specifics in my humble opinion. The game is afterall on a grand scale.


< Message edited by JanSorensen -- 10/21/2005 10:18:38 PM >

(in reply to silodhlehan)
Post #: 2
RE: Newbie questions - 10/21/2005 10:15:47 PM   
Davidovich Trotsky

 

Posts: 51
Joined: 8/29/2005
Status: offline 		answered above.

< Message edited by Davidovich Trotsky -- 10/21/2005 10:18:24 PM >

(in reply to silodhlehan)
Post #: 3
RE: Newbie questions - 10/21/2005 11:45:34 PM   
silodhlehan

 

Posts: 43
Joined: 10/17/2005
Status: offline 		First Tnx for the help

I guess as long as you get 1 partisan over the pop value it will clear up any problems. Eventually.

Don't really need a garrison of 10 in England, just in case!

Bummer re china would be nice to have a 42 activation where rates moves up to a whopping 1.


With the opfire I wouldn't mind so much if the firing unit got one or 2 attacks but for arty / air to get 12 attacks without anyone shooting back seems er overdone.

I can possibly see arty at gibraltar or denmark.

One arty unit could wipe out the entire Japanese/WA/axis fleet in one turn in the wrong circumstances sailing within arty range of malta.

Avoid opfire at all cost I guess! I always seem to die....

Tnx Jan & Davidovich.

like the game but i like to add my 2 cents.

(in reply to Davidovich Trotsky)
Post #: 4
RE: Newbie questions - 10/22/2005 12:04:08 AM   
JanSorensen

 

Posts: 3684
Joined: 5/2/2005
From: Aalborg, Denmark
Status: offline 		You dont have to avoid op-fire at all costs -

Most of the time its prudent to avoid it - but in some cases it can pay off taking a chance against op-fire too. Ofcourse you will need to know which units will opfire to make an educated guess on the chance to run the gauntlet - but if the reward outweights the risk I can and do chance op-fire once in a while. Mind, its rare but it happens.

(in reply to silodhlehan)
Post #: 5
RE: Newbie questions - 10/22/2005 12:39:17 AM   
mcaryf

 

Posts: 169
Joined: 7/11/2003
From: Uk
Status: offline 		Just to reply to the Normandy bombardment question, I think the biggest ship sunk was only a DD but some larger units did take damage.

Generally shore batteries did quite well against ships probably the best example was Walcheren where a number of attacking Allied ships were sunk.

Mike

(in reply to JanSorensen)
Post #: 6
RE: Newbie questions - 10/22/2005 5:25:49 AM   
aletoledo


Posts: 827
Joined: 2/4/2005
Status: offline
quote:

One arty unit could wipe out the entire Japanese/WA/axis fleet in one turn in the wrong circumstances sailing within arty range of malta.

malta won't op-fire with artlierry unless you're invading it. if there is an airplane on the island, then it will op-fire at units passing or even leaving the central med.

(in reply to mcaryf)
Post #: 7
RE: Newbie questions - 10/24/2005 8:38:54 PM   
silodhlehan

 

Posts: 43
Joined: 10/17/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: aletoledo

quote:

One arty unit could wipe out the entire Japanese/WA/axis fleet in one turn in the wrong circumstances sailing within arty range of malta.

malta won't op-fire with artlierry unless you're invading it. if there is an airplane on the island, then it will op-fire at units passing or even leaving the central med.



Maybe something else was causing it.



Had another funny thing happen. [bug I presume]


Was the russian player and the german left a heavy fleet off the coast of finland. I attacked it with the russian heavy fleet and it was damaged.

Look in lenningrad in the upcomming production phase and no heavy fleet.

A few turns later I realized what happened. On turn 1 after freeze I redeployed a russian factory to the caucuses. There's a port there too.

So this heavy fleet damaged in the gulf of finland chugged past denmark, france, italy and got permission from the turks to enter the black sea.



I guess leningrad was busy but it was funny and useless unless I invade turkey as the russian owns Romania and Bulgaria already. I just killed production.

Would have liked it in the baltic.

(in reply to aletoledo)
Post #: 8
RE: Newbie questions - 10/25/2005 7:22:31 PM   
lkendter

 

Posts: 89
Joined: 5/20/2005
Status: offline 		While it was a pain, I am not surprised with the bad handling of damaged fleets.

The logic where to returned damaged units gets very weird at times. I have even heard of damaged units returning to frozen areas.

You have countries such as Rumania that can't build aircraft, yet the can repair them?


(in reply to silodhlehan)
Post #: 9
RE: Newbie questions - 10/25/2005 9:26:45 PM   
Forwarn45

 

Posts: 718
Joined: 4/26/2005
Status: offline
quote:

The logic where to returned damaged units gets very weird at times. I have even heard of damaged units returning to frozen areas.

You have countries such as Rumania that can't build aircraft, yet the can repair them?


The flight of damaged (and for that matter - undamaged) fleets into port can be rather strange at times. But as for ground and air units, it's hard to keep track - but the computer does keep track of whose they are. The Romanians have one fighter, and if it is damaged, it will return to Romania to repair. The Italians have a small airforce and a few decent ground forces that will also return to Italy to repair.

It's hard to remember but occasionally handy to use the minor air in roles in which they are more likely to take casualties. If they are damaged, they won't use valuable German pop points to repair.

(in reply to lkendter)
Post #: 10
RE: Newbie questions - 10/25/2005 10:37:02 PM   
toddtreadway

 

Posts: 471
Joined: 9/30/2003
Status: offline 		In that vein, is there any way to tell which units were built in a certain area without looking at some obscure file?

Also, does a unit retreat to the space it was built or the closest factory space in the country it was built in?

(in reply to Forwarn45)
Post #: 11
RE: Newbie questions - 10/25/2005 10:41:52 PM   
silodhlehan

 

Posts: 43
Joined: 10/17/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: lkendter
You have countries such as Rumania that can't build aircraft, yet the can repair them?



As a programmer I'm guilty of errata like that on occasion too.



RE: Newbie questions - 10/25/2005 7:26:45 PM


Forwarn45

How do you know whose fighter is whose? After a few turns I'm lost?



(in reply to lkendter)
Post #: 12
RE: Newbie questions - 10/26/2005 3:38:43 AM   
aletoledo


Posts: 827
Joined: 2/4/2005
Status: offline 		to my knowledge there is no way to tell what unit was created where by looking at it in the stack.

during the combat report you'll see numbers associated with each unit and its those numbers that are used as an 'object' being tracked in the database of units. programming 'objects' can carry any amount of charertising data, such as being hit in previous combat that turn, if the unit has movement points left, if the unit has been supplied that turn or where the unit was created.

(in reply to silodhlehan)
Post #: 13
RE: Newbie questions - 10/26/2005 7:08:57 AM   
Forwarn45

 

Posts: 718
Joined: 4/26/2005
Status: offline 		Yes, I don't know of any way to tell except to look at where the units go when they are damaged. As the WA, I always play with the graphic option that differentiates American from British units, however. At least you know a little bit about your units that way.

(in reply to aletoledo)
Post #: 14
RE: Newbie questions - 10/27/2005 5:28:44 PM   
silodhlehan

 

Posts: 43
Joined: 10/17/2005
Status: offline 		Thanks for the above help

follow up q's

1 re partisans

fighting china as japan and in the foochow range it says their are like 2 partisans and making 2 / turn I have

11!!!

Infantry there and still the yellow man doesn't go away??? [Pun not intended.]

I don't get it.


2 Vladivostok

As the japanese player I was looking to attack Vladivostok. I wanted to wait 1 turn after the german - russia onslaught.

There was a sturmovik and flak that blinked out by the turn I wanted to attack, how can I get my units in frozen areas to move?


3 Portugaul

In the game WA attack their islands but they were allowed to use them at some point in the war without going to war with them. Can you do this in the game?

(in reply to Forwarn45)
Post #: 15
RE: Newbie questions - 10/28/2005 6:30:32 AM   
a511


Posts: 518
Joined: 5/19/2005
From: Hong Kong
Status: offline
quote:

2 partisans and making 2 / turn


only true when partisans are suppressed in the previous round (i.e. no yellow man).
in ur case, the yellow man (should be red as u got 11 partisans) will only disappear when u got 1) 11 infantry/ militia in footchow; and 2) 1 unit of supply is available to footchow (make sure its not grab by other regions for anti-partisans purpose)

dont understand ur second Q, as if u are playing JP, u got no frozen areas, only the RUS did. if u are asking why the RUS can move the units from Vladivostok, then its because once RUS DOW GER, RUS can move units in the frozen eastern areas by strategic movement.

quote:

In the game WA attack their islands but they were allowed to use them at some point in the war without going to war with them. Can you do this in the game?


not in the stock game, but its possible in some mod like Franco alliance.

AN

(in reply to silodhlehan)
Post #: 16
RE: Newbie questions - 10/28/2005 4:55:22 PM   
silodhlehan

 

Posts: 43
Joined: 10/17/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: a511



only true when partisans are suppressed in the previous round (i.e. no yellow man).
in ur case, the yellow man (should be red as u got 11 partisans) will only disappear when u got 1) 11 infantry/ militia in footchow; and 2) 1 unit of supply is available to footchow (make sure its not grab by other regions for anti-partisans purpose)


Well I had supply in manchuria and a rail net. Hmmm Maybe I should move the supplies there. Is there a way I can force it to supply those units?

The 11 militia were there several turns I was fighting in russia and found I needed fewer troops to push to gorki, before getting hammered back. Than I did to fight stinkin partisans??? Would have been nice to have them to clean up the soviets.



quote:


dont understand ur second Q, as if u are playing JP, u got no frozen areas, only the RUS did. if u are asking why the RUS can move the units from Vladivostok, then its because once RUS DOW GER, RUS can move units in the frozen eastern areas by strategic movement.


Yes it's the russians I was worried about while playing Japan, Maybe as the russian I tried to do this when all russia was frozen and it didn't work.

Have to try again and vacate vladivostock?

One day, I will know whats going on enough to have one of you a PBEM game....

Again 'tnx for your time.'

(in reply to a511)
Post #: 17
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