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Questions about aircraft database - 12/1/2005 2:32:38 PM   
Pkunzipper


Posts: 237
Joined: 5/21/2002
Status: offline
First of all let me say I have got the game 2 days ago, and I like it very much!!
In a game, I waited the arrival of 1MF2 fighter, but when I checked the database I saw they are equal to my current 1MF1.... So I checked more accurately the database, finding (maybe) 3 issues on airplanes data (in additon to US carrier based fighters issue with 13-15 armor value, already noticed by someone on "Scenario Design" sub-forum).

1- Many Japanese planes are equal to the ones they upgrades to.
1MF1 = 1MF2,
1MF3 = 1MF3a,
1MF3a = 1MF4 (except for 5 km/h cruise speed, that I dunno how this impact the game),
1MF4 = 1MF5.

Gamecock I = Gamecock II (they're even available on the same data)

So that doesn't encourage players to upgrade and have a squadron of all damaged aicraft that are good as the previous ones.


2- I have not any detailed info, but currently Sopwith Pup is a better plane than Snipe and Camel (it has only 1 MG and is more fragile, but it's both faster and much more maneuvrable). Is this intended? In WW1 Pup were replaced by Camel and Camel by Snipe.


3- Some aircraft perform equally to their seaplane conversion...
Gloster Sparrohawk = Sparrohawk III
Fairey IIId = Fairey IIId float

And maybe others I haven't checked... Shouldn't seaplane version perform sligthly worse than the "standard" version?











< Message edited by Pkunzipper -- 12/1/2005 2:37:00 PM >


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Post #: 1
RE: Questions about aircraft database - 12/1/2005 10:07:11 PM   
Tankerace


Posts: 6400
Joined: 3/21/2003
From: Stillwater, OK, United States
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pkunzipper

First of all let me say I have got the game 2 days ago, and I like it very much!!
In a game, I waited the arrival of 1MF2 fighter, but when I checked the database I saw they are equal to my current 1MF1.... So I checked more accurately the database, finding (maybe) 3 issues on airplanes data (in additon to US carrier based fighters issue with 13-15 armor value, already noticed by someone on "Scenario Design" sub-forum).

1- Many Japanese planes are equal to the ones they upgrades to.
1MF1 = 1MF2,
1MF3 = 1MF3a,
1MF3a = 1MF4 (except for 5 km/h cruise speed, that I dunno how this impact the game),
1MF4 = 1MF5.


The 1MF series (also known as the Type 10 Carrier Fighter), while consisting of six major subtypes, were all very similar. The main change was the use of radial engines in the later models, and the cockpit was moved forward, but essentially they are the same kind of aircraft. Whereas in some games you could represent them with a generic 1MF Fighter, my goal was accuracy. So, I spelled out each different subtype.


The 1MF1 was the prototype, while the first full production was the *identical* 1MF2.
The 1MF3 was the first major subtype, with the 1MF3A being a slightly modified version (although same in specs).
The 1MF4 is a slightly faster version of the 1MF3a, with major structural changes but (as near as I can tell) same basic stats.
The 1MF5 is a minor improvement of the 1MF4, and in most games could have been omitted and the 1MF4 used (but again, I went for accuracy.)



quote:


Gamecock I = Gamecock II (they're even available on the same data)

So that doesn't encourage players to upgrade and have a squadron of all damaged aicraft that are good as the previous ones.


With performance specs, I could find no difference in change on the Gamecock variants (again, very limited data). However, I chose to include both variants.

There shouldn't be any encouragement really. Remember, in the case of the US, the Vought VE-7 and De Havilland DH-4 (both WWI fighters) were used until the early 1930s, long after better aircraft were available.


quote:

2- I have not any detailed info, but currently Sopwith Pup is a better plane than Snipe and Camel (it has only 1 MG and is more fragile, but it's both faster and much more maneuvrable). Is this intended? In WW1 Pup were replaced by Camel and Camel by Snipe.


The faster doesn't equal better. The speed is correct based on data I had. The plane is fragile, and is more maneuverable. I based my reasoning on this from flight sims, where pitting a Camel vs a Pup the Camel can take more damage, but can rarely outmaneuver the Pup. This is the argument like the P-47 vs the P-51. A Mustang pilot will argue his is better, whereas the Thunderbolt will say his is better. Pilots are the key to any machine.

quote:

3- Some aircraft perform equally to their seaplane conversion...
Gloster Sparrohawk = Sparrohawk III
Fairey IIId = Fairey IIId float

And maybe others I haven't checked... Shouldn't seaplane version perform sligthly worse than the "standard" version?



The Sparrowhawk is not a float plane. It is listed as such to work in the game engine, but in reality it is a wheeled plane that flies off a flying off platform on the Yamashiro.

In general (though not all cases) I have adjusted the mvr ratings to reflect floats. But on some planes, based on data I found, the performance hit is negligable.



And I'm glad you like the game BTW.




_____________________________

Designer of War Plan Orange
Allied Naval OOBer of Admiral's Edition
Naval Team Lead for War in the Med

Author of Million-Dollar Barrage: American Field Artillery in the Great War coming soon from OU Press.

(in reply to Pkunzipper)
Post #: 2
RE: Questions about aircraft database - 12/2/2005 12:59:30 AM   
Tankerace


Posts: 6400
Joined: 3/21/2003
From: Stillwater, OK, United States
Status: offline
I do think I'll move teh Gamecock I's arrival to 1927. Problem with British aircraft of the period is conflciting information. One source will say 1924, another 1925, another 1923.

_____________________________

Designer of War Plan Orange
Allied Naval OOBer of Admiral's Edition
Naval Team Lead for War in the Med

Author of Million-Dollar Barrage: American Field Artillery in the Great War coming soon from OU Press.

(in reply to Pkunzipper)
Post #: 3
RE: Questions about aircraft database - 12/2/2005 10:57:45 AM   
Pkunzipper


Posts: 237
Joined: 5/21/2002
Status: offline
Thx for considering my post and having done some changes to the database for the next patch!

About Gamecock my source says it became operational on 1926, but as you said data on this period is very conflictual sometimes...

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(in reply to Tankerace)
Post #: 4
RE: Questions about aircraft database - 12/15/2005 12:36:49 PM   
Pkunzipper


Posts: 237
Joined: 5/21/2002
Status: offline
Another 2 questions:

1- Shouldn't British Bristols be less maneuvrable than Snipes and Camels? Bristol were small 2 seaters fighters, only 20% bigger than standard 1 seaters, so even if they were quite maneuvrable they can't compete with those 2 fighters!

2- I didn't checked any source about DH-4, but instead of having 2 version of the same plane (fighter and level-bomber), can't we have only a fighter-bombr version?

_____________________________


(in reply to Pkunzipper)
Post #: 5
RE: Questions about aircraft database - 12/15/2005 8:38:01 PM   
Tankerace


Posts: 6400
Joined: 3/21/2003
From: Stillwater, OK, United States
Status: offline
In tests, Im quite happy with the Brisfit, and as they will never face off against Camels, I don't think it is an issue. If it becomes one, I'll knock it down 5 points (already sent in the stuff for the first patch).

As to the DH-4, that is a PDU necessity. The fighter version upgrades to to modern USAAS fighters, whereas the bomber version upgrades to the NBS-1. A fighter bomber version would not allow this.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pkunzipper

Another 2 questions:

1- Shouldn't British Bristols be less maneuvrable than Snipes and Camels? Bristol were small 2 seaters fighters, only 20% bigger than standard 1 seaters, so even if they were quite maneuvrable they can't compete with those 2 fighters!

2- I didn't checked any source about DH-4, but instead of having 2 version of the same plane (fighter and level-bomber), can't we have only a fighter-bombr version?



_____________________________

Designer of War Plan Orange
Allied Naval OOBer of Admiral's Edition
Naval Team Lead for War in the Med

Author of Million-Dollar Barrage: American Field Artillery in the Great War coming soon from OU Press.

(in reply to Pkunzipper)
Post #: 6
RE: Questions about aircraft database - 12/15/2005 8:40:59 PM   
Tankerace


Posts: 6400
Joined: 3/21/2003
From: Stillwater, OK, United States
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tankerace

In tests, Im quite happy with the Brisfit, and as they will never face off against Camels, I don't think it is an issue. If it becomes one, I'll knock it down 5 points (already sent in the stuff for the first patch).

As to the DH-4, that is a PDU necessity. The fighter version upgrades to to modern USAAS fighters, whereas the bomber version upgrades to the NBS-1. A fighter bomber version would not allow this. In 1922, several Bombardment Squadrons still used the DH-4.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pkunzipper

Another 2 questions:

1- Shouldn't British Bristols be less maneuvrable than Snipes and Camels? Bristol were small 2 seaters fighters, only 20% bigger than standard 1 seaters, so even if they were quite maneuvrable they can't compete with those 2 fighters!

2- I didn't checked any source about DH-4, but instead of having 2 version of the same plane (fighter and level-bomber), can't we have only a fighter-bombr version?





_____________________________

Designer of War Plan Orange
Allied Naval OOBer of Admiral's Edition
Naval Team Lead for War in the Med

Author of Million-Dollar Barrage: American Field Artillery in the Great War coming soon from OU Press.

(in reply to Tankerace)
Post #: 7
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