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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> War In The Pacific - Struggle Against Japan 1941 - 1945 >> Production help

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Production help - 11/30/2005 3:20:32 AM

BlackSunshine

Posts: 366
Joined: 11/22/2002
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Yep, another one of these.

I am an allied fanboy. Not because I want to, but because I just can't grasp the production system. Now that the game has been out for awhile, can someone please explain the way Japanese Production works.

I would really like to know the how/what/where/why of Japanese Production. What do I mean? Start in Tokyo (or any other city for that matter), explain what you are doing and why (in relation to production). What do I need to do to keep things working as is? When do I change? What do I change? Any reason why?

Basically someone out there should have a tutorial for Japanese production. I can't believe there isn't one, but more importantly, I can't believe the manual wraps it up in a nice package with a bow on top, but when you open the box it's nothing but some gears, wires and duct tape. I can't make sense of it.

I've done numerous searches, looked through Spooky's site, and I can't find a tutorial on how the system works. If someone can direct me to some good threads or something I'm missing, I would appreciate it.

Also, can someone direct me to a place where I can find the "tech-tree" or upgrade paths of all aircraft/ships, not just Japanese?

I feel like an idiot for not understanding it completely, but after a search of the forums brought up hundreds of threads on the topic, I'm not the only one.

Post #: 1

RE: Production help - 11/30/2005 4:50:20 AM

Mike Solli

Posts: 15792
Joined: 10/18/2000
From: the flight deck of the Zuikaku
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There's lots of info out there (as you know). Go to Spooky's webpage:

http://mathubert.free.fr/

Here are a couple of suggestions for starters:

7/26/04: Download the economic flowchart to see how everything is related.

Then, go to the left side of his page and download the Strategy Guide. While it is somewhat outdated (mainly aircraft) it is an invaluable resource.

Read that and then start asking questions here. We'll all be happy to answer.

(in reply to BlackSunshine)

Post #: 2

RE: Production help - 11/30/2005 4:52:20 AM

Mike Solli

Posts: 15792
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From: the flight deck of the Zuikaku
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By the way, you're where every Japanese player was when he started. It's a steep learning curve, but keep at it and in no time (well, a few months anyway) you'll be as much a pro as anyone of us is (which isn't necessarily saying much

).

Welcome aboard!

(in reply to Mike Solli)

Post #: 3

RE: Production help - 11/30/2005 4:54:40 AM

Yamato hugger

Posts: 5475
Joined: 10/5/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BlackSunshine

Yep, another one of these.

I am an allied fanboy. Not because I want to, but because I just can't grasp the production system. Now that the game has been out for awhile, can someone please explain the way Japanese Production works.

I dont think anyone truely understands the finer points of everything in the production system, but I will give it a go.

quote:

I would really like to know the how/what/where/why of Japanese Production. What do I mean? Start in Tokyo (or any other city for that matter), explain what you are doing and why (in relation to production). What do I need to do to keep things working as is? When do I change? What do I change? Any reason why?

Well, without getting into specifics (change this factory to that) you have to do what you like. My working theory is this: I change most R&D factories to another type. For example, the 320 Frank factories that are in Gumma (1 hex NW of Tokyo) I convert at the start of the game to Tojos. Why? Because the Tojo upgrades to the Frank and the Frank isnt available until 8/44. The Judys I change to Vals. I figure there isnt enough factories to change the date of avilibility of the Judy anyway, so may as well produce Vals with it in the meantime. I can always shut production off if I have ample numbers in the pool, and this way when the Judy is available, the factories convert automatically. The A5M you convert to whatever strikes your fancy (this factory doesnt auto-ugrade to anything). I leave the Nate factories intact, but I shut them off so they arent wasting HI. I make sure I have enough "auxerillary" aircraft (recon planes, transports, ect) usually 15-30 a/c per month is good. Then whatever else I want to do. I dont expand air production at all, I just change 1 factory to another.

Same with engines. There are several engine factories that are meaningless. Nissan for example. I believe these were oringinally put in for engines for the trucks and tanks (or at least I havent seen where these types need engines). I convert all these types Mitsubishis and Nakajimas. Kawasakis are only used for Tonys so decide at the start how many Tonys you want/need and base your Kawasaki production on these. Keep in mind you have 9 month of production before the Tony can be built, so you can build up a sizeable engine supply before production even begins. I dont build many Tonys, so I usually only have 10-20 Kawa factories and convery the rest to Mitsus.

The only production that I actually expand is armaments. You have to play with this. Start slow. Expand by 16 or maybe 32. If after a few months that doesnt seem to be enough, expand a little more. In this case it is better to have too little than too much. Too much and you have no supplies.

quote:

Basically someone out there should have a tutorial for Japanese production. I can't believe there isn't one, but more importantly, I can't believe the manual wraps it up in a nice package with a bow on top, but when you open the box it's nothing but some gears, wires and duct tape. I can't make sense of it.

Batteries not included.

quote:

I've done numerous searches, looked through Spooky's site, and I can't find a tutorial on how the system works. If someone can direct me to some good threads or something I'm missing, I would appreciate it.

Also, can someone direct me to a place where I can find the "tech-tree" or upgrade paths of all aircraft/ships, not just Japanese?

Tech tree is easy to do really. Turn PDUs on and you click on any air unit and see its upgrade path. Non-PDU upgrades are a little trickier. These are on a unit by units basis. There is spreadsheets on Spookies site on this.

As for ships, hit the "view ship database" icon (4th from the left on the top display in the game) and there is the basics of every ship class in the game, including the modified versions and the dates they are modified.

quote:

I feel like an idiot for not understanding it completely, but after a search of the forums brought up hundreds of threads on the topic, I'm not the only one.

I dont fully understand it all, and Im not exactly a rookie

(in reply to BlackSunshine)

Post #: 4

RE: Production help - 12/1/2005 12:44:40 AM

FeurerKrieg

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Joined: 6/15/2005
From: Denver, CO
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Everyone has there own methods, but what helped me understand things best was to put it all into Excel. Then I can change factories and see how that changes my HI needs, then I compare that to what kind of MP/Res/Oil production I have going on in each little 'rail network' area.

The spreadsheet is useful going forward, but the excercise of putting it together is what really helped solidfy in my mind how all the production stuff fits together.

_____________________________

Upper portion used with permission of www.subart.net, copyright John Meeks

(in reply to Yamato hugger)

Post #: 5

RE: Production help - 12/1/2005 1:43:00 AM

mogami

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From: You can't get here from there
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Hi, You don't need to change Franks to Tojos or Judy to Val..why? because you already build more of them then you use. Save these R&D factories for when you need them.

Don't mess with anything at first. Look at your airgroups and reinforcement schedule.
Then look at size of facilities.

Several arms factories start at size 0 so it's safe to build them. (don't do more then 1 increase at a time)
Spreading it out build everything that starts under size 10 to over size 10
You don't need to mass produce anything MONTHY. You need to produce it at a rate where it keeps up with loss and new unit demands.

Fighter production is number one because you lose more fighters.

If your upgrading your airgroups then in 1941-42
A6M2 and OscarI are prime aircraft.
In 43 the Tojo and Tony replace Oscar (The Oscar II is just a long range OscarI so you don't really need it)
The Nick is your NightFighter
decide on bomber Helen or Sally and build these (everything else can convert to these)

Over all you don't need to worry about production. increase engine types to match required and turn off production of aircraft that you have a surplus in pool. Shut down engine factories when you have surplus in pool (you never have enough Nakajima but a surplus of Mitsubishi)

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Post #: 6

RE: Production help - 12/3/2005 2:58:48 AM

BlackSunshine

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Joined: 11/22/2002
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Ok. Thanks for the help so far guys. Ive learned a lot but still have more to figure out. Hopefully these questions arent too stupid, but I just need to figure them out.

- I assume that when I am not researching aircraft, I am building aircraft? All is done at the same factory? How do I tell what is being researched and what is being built?

- When I look at aircraft assembly I see 687(1-rd) what does the (1-rd) mean?

- Each day, each location bulds aircraft= (# of factories +random #)/30. Where do I find the # of factories?

- Ok these are the numbers from Tokyo (I think, when I was learning this I had been taking notes, but the game isnt in front of me).

Oscar (119)x0
Thora 0x5
Sonia 0x18
Val 0x8
Ida 0x29

What do the numbers mean? Why does the Oscar have (119) x 0? I know that when I look at my totals for the nation for instance my heavy industry is 1380X (0) whereas the 0 is damaged HI. Im not sure about the above.

Thanks and I am sure Ill have a few more.

(in reply to BlackSunshine)

Post #: 7

RE: Production help - 12/3/2005 3:08:36 AM

Tophat

Posts: 460
Joined: 8/6/2002
From: Cleveland,Ohio
Status: offline

Mogami,
What do you produce helen's or sally's? zzzzzzright now i'm leaning toward sally's myself.
Oh and before you sideline tony's know that these with a decant experienced pilot can put some hurt on the Accursed Allied 4e bombers!

(in reply to BlackSunshine)

Post #: 8

RE: Production help - 12/3/2005 5:05:07 AM

06 Maestro

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Joined: 10/12/2005
From: Nevada, USA
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If all R&D for a particular a/c is stoped in favor of producing another type, will the halted developement delay the planned entry date of the new type of a/c?

(in reply to Tophat)

Post #: 9

RE: Production help - 12/3/2005 6:00:51 PM

Mike Solli

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From: the flight deck of the Zuikaku
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quote:

ORIGINAL: 06 Maestro

If all R&D for a particular a/c is stoped in favor of producing another type, will the halted developement delay the planned entry date of the new type of a/c?

No. The only thing r/d does is to possibly accelerate the entry date of the aircraft. It has been stated in the forums that the r/d is to help the AI and some claim that the r/d for future aircraft types should start at 0 for humans.

(in reply to 06 Maestro)

Post #: 10

RE: Production help - 12/4/2005 2:29:39 AM

BlackSunshine

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Joined: 11/22/2002
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So....

Anyone wanna answer my questions in post #6?

(in reply to Mike Solli)

Post #: 11

RE: Production help - 12/4/2005 5:15:29 AM

tsimmonds

Posts: 5498
Joined: 2/6/2004
From: astride Mason and Dixon's Line
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BlackSunshine

Ok. Thanks for the help so far guys. Ive learned a lot but still have more to figure out. Hopefully these questions arent too stupid, but I just need to figure them out.

- I assume that when I am not researching aircraft, I am building aircraft? All is done at the same factory? How do I tell what is being researched and what is being built?

If an aircraft model has reached its availability date, you are building aircraft. You can see this by selecting the info screen/aircraft replacement pool. If an aircraft model has not reached its availability date, and if you have a factory for this model that has undamaged levels, and if production is underway (when you look at the aircraft factories in that city, you see the word "Halt"), then you are doing research. There is absolutely no visibility into what research you have achieved.

quote:

- When I look at aircraft assembly I see 687(1-rd) what does the (1-rd) mean?

Means you have 687 aircraft factories that are producing aircraft, plus one factory that is doing R&D (or is it including one R&D factory? I have no idea. Someone who does research will have to answer this, I never do it).

quote:

- Each day, each location bulds aircraft= (# of factories +random #)/30. Where do I find the # of factories?

You can select the information screen, then industry/resource availability screen, then click "Type" to sort your factories by type. This shows how many undamaged (i.e. producing) factories you have; to see how many damaged factories you have, you have to look at each factory by selecting the base that it is located in, then selecting the aircraft factory icon at the bottom of the base info screen.

quote:

- Ok these are the numbers from Tokyo (I think, when I was learning this I had been taking notes, but the game isnt in front of me).

Oscar (119)x0
Thora 0x5
Sonia 0x18
Val 0x8
Ida 0x29

What do the numbers mean? Why does the Oscar have (119) x 0? I know that when I look at my totals for the nation for instance my heavy industry is 1380X (0) whereas the 0 is damaged HI. Im not sure about the above.

You have 119 damaged oscar factories. The other factories are all undamaged, and will produce aircraft according to that formula, "aircraft= (# of factories +random #)/30" (this is where you look to see how many), assuming the factory is turned on. If it has the word "Halt", it is producing. If it says "Restart", it is not producing. You can toggle between these two states by clicking the word.

You can expand the factories by clicking "Expand". You should be very careful with this button. Each damaged factory will cost 1000 supply points to repair.

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Post #: 12

RE: Production help - 12/4/2005 5:55:51 AM

BlackSunshine

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Joined: 11/22/2002
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Wow. Thanks a lot irrelevant. You cleared a lot up for me. I am sure I will have more questions as I dig deeper into the system, but these are ones I couldnt find an answer here, or even in the forums.

Surely one of the developers/mods could created a tutorial for production. I mean there are literally a hundred threads on the topic.

*edit* I cant believe that there is no way to see your level of research into aircraft types. Dumb. I also thought that in regards to the Tokyo example and the Oscars that the damaged aircraft was the number to the left (119), but I thought that surely the developers wouldnt reverse the locations of the numbers! I guess I was wrong. That is incredibly stupid and confusing.

(in reply to BlackSunshine)

Post #: 13

RE: Production help - 12/4/2005 6:27:34 AM

Captain Ed

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From: Victoria BC
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Question: If you have messed with production and screwed it up such as I have what if anything can you do. For instance I am not sure how I did it but I have at Shmizu an engine factory that reads (249) 1, meaning 249 factories damaged 1 working? Now this has not changed in months of game time I suspect because not enough HI points in the city. More damaged factories than HI. Looking at the city stats the numbers are all in white, supply,Oil Resources, is that enough to get the factories repaired and producing.
And I guess if you look at a city with production facilities if all the city stats are in white if you add more of anything by shipping it in does it make a difference I somehow don`t think so. Oh god how I wish there was a default button.

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THE SECOND DAY IS EASY CAUSE YOU QUIT

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Post #: 14

RE: Production help - 12/4/2005 6:39:43 AM

tsimmonds

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Damaged factories will only repair if there are at least 10,000 supply in the hex, and they will only repair one level per turn. So aside from the wasted supply/HI/manpower, expanding a factory by mistake (cost 100 supply/1HI/1Manpower) and then not repairing it does far less harm than expanding it by mistake and then repairing it (cost 1000 supply). HI points have no effect on repairing factories.

To be absolutely clear, to repair a damaged factory uses supply, only. You have to have 10,000 supply in the hex, and the repair will cost 1000 supply per level, and only one level will repair per turn, per factory type. You can repair one damaged armament factory, one vehicle factory, one naval shipyard, one merchant shipyard, one repair yard, one of each type of engine, and one of each type of aircraft that you have factories in the hex, per turn. This is an extreme situation, would require a large quantity of supply, and will never happen.

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Post #: 15

RE: Production help - 12/4/2005 6:44:09 AM

tsimmonds

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quote:

I also thought that in regards to the Tokyo example and the Oscars that the damaged aircraft was the number to the left (119), but I thought that surely the developers wouldnt reverse the locations of the numbers!

I may have been unclear. The number to the left, in parentheses, is the number of damaged factories. The number to the right, unparenthesized, is the number of undamaged factories.

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Post #: 16

RE: Production help - 12/4/2005 6:44:30 AM

Captain Ed

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From: Victoria BC
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So shimzu would cost 249000 supply to repair and 249 days. Oh god how I wish there was a default button.

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THE FIRST DAY OF YOUR DIET IS THE HARDEST
THE SECOND DAY IS EASY CAUSE YOU QUIT

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Post #: 17

RE: Production help - 12/4/2005 6:47:53 AM

tsimmonds

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So just repair it up to the point you need, and then switch repair to "no" or "off" or whatever it is. Or just forget about it entirely, there are plenty of engine factories.

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Post #: 18

RE: Production help - 12/4/2005 7:07:51 AM

BlackSunshine

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Joined: 11/22/2002
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quote:

ORIGINAL: irrelevant

quote:

I also thought that in regards to the Tokyo example and the Oscars that the damaged aircraft was the number to the left (119), but I thought that surely the developers wouldnt reverse the locations of the numbers!

I may have been unclear. The number to the left, in parentheses, is the number of damaged factories. The number to the right, unparenthesized, is the number of undamaged factories.

Yeah, I understood you. But when you look at for instance total Heavy Industry it is listed as 1380 x (0) where 0 is the damaged facilities. Completely the opposite in relation to aircraft factories.

(in reply to tsimmonds)

Post #: 19

RE: Production help - 12/4/2005 7:17:07 AM

tsimmonds

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From: astride Mason and Dixon's Line
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quote:

Heavy Industry it is listed as 1380 x (0) where 0 is the damaged facilities.

Not sure what you're looking at. Pretty sure the damaged facilities are always listed to the left, in parens.

Are you talking about what you see when you hover the cursor over an enemy base? That's the only place I can think of where it shows up like that.

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Post #: 20

RE: Production help - 12/4/2005 8:53:31 AM

BlackSunshine

Posts: 366
Joined: 11/22/2002
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Oops. Sorry. You're correct. Very poor notetaking on my part. I had reversed the numbers myself.

"numbers make my head hurt."

(in reply to tsimmonds)

Post #: 21