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A couple of question from a new player - 12/13/2005 9:02:00 PM   
Peruna

 

Posts: 11
Joined: 12/13/2005
From: Dallas
Status: offline 		Bought this game a couple of years ago and for various reasons never even loaded it up on my computer. But since picking up Fire in the Sky last week I was inspired to tackle the game, loaded it up, and haven't had much sleep since. What a game!

A couple of questions.

I'm playing the Allies in scen 17, and in defending Port Moresby from Zero sweeps I'm getting my Airacobras eaten up. While the Kittyhawks somewhat hold their own, the Airacobras are little more than practice for the Zeros. I'm playing them at default 10k alt. Is there a role for them? Should I withdraw to a rear area rather than see them destroyed piecemeal?

And regarding altitude is there any guide for what alt settings for various aircraft/missions. I've been playing default mostly, except for Beaufort I set on 1k since it has a torpedo ordinance.

Also any advice on what aircraft work well with what type of mission would be much appreciated.

bst rgds

Andrew
Post #: 1
RE: A couple of question from a new player - 12/14/2005 12:34:47 AM   
LoBaron


Posts: 4776
Joined: 1/26/2003
From: Vienna, Austria
Status: offline 		airacobras get an air to air penalty over 9000ft (cause they lacked a supercharger they were hopeless at high alt. the penalty increases every 1000ft over 9k up to 20000(?).

Defending PM from air attack early in the war is quite hard. i often ship supplies and troops to the northern australian ports and then fast transport them to port moresby (retirement allowed to make depart PM at dawn). this tacic also makes defending the port of PM less important and reduces the risk of your transports running into a japanese bombardement TF in the harbour.

in the air the japanese have serious advantage (the zeros are better than most US aircraft of this time -except the kittyhawk/warhawk and the F4 wildcats) and their pilots are much better trained. if you want to hold PM in the air you have to rotate squads out of australia and watch the replacement pool. fight a war of attrition: your pilots are getting better while nearly every downed zero is a 80+ pilot less in the japanese navy. also you dont lose as many pilots cause many of those which bail out survive while every japanese pilot is either dead or POW.
usually i shift my fighter sqauds out of australia for 1-2 weeks and try to intercept some big time raids with every plane and high morale. when fatigue or losses get to high i rebase them to australia again.

altitude is a tradeoff between hit percentage and probable losses. the lower you fly the more aircraft will be shot down by flak. setting alt has much to do with questions like "what do i want to achieve?" and "is it possible to achieve?" and "are it the losses (eg in bombers/escorts) worth accomplishing the task?".
but as a standart i use:

torpedo bombers (except betty and nell medium bombers cause they are worth their weight in gold if you play japanes and habe a slow replacement rate) +/- 5000ft depending on target value and defenses.

dive bombers 10000 except very light defended targets (bout 6000)

medium bombers and heavy bombers it really depends on target AAA and cap level. as the japanese i attack from high alt at the beginning to make the p39/40 altitude penalty hurt (they have to get to the bombers alt to intercept ;) )

cap is best set a few 1000ft above the expected attack alt (so the cap can dive on the bombers in the first wave)

sweep either high alt if you just want to hassle with the cap or 100ft if there is light AAA and you want to strafe the target.

naval search/recon is same as medium bombers. the lower you go the better is the detection chance but the higher the loss rate if you fly into cap or AAA.

torp/divebombers are best against naval targets. medium bombers can perform both roles and heavies are mostly good against land (every rule in this game has many exceptions and "ifs". eg a well trained B17 squad can totally ruin the day for and undefended transport TF coming in at 100ft -skip bombing and strafing- ).
rest is in the aircraft database.





< Message edited by LoBaron -- 12/14/2005 12:37:06 AM >

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Post #: 2
RE: A couple of question from a new player - 12/14/2005 1:04:44 AM   
Peruna

 

Posts: 11
Joined: 12/13/2005
From: Dallas
Status: offline 		Thanks, Lobaron. I'll try out your tips tonight. If possible could you clarify something. You mentioned fast transport to PM early in the game. Is that utilizing the small loads on destroyers and cruisers or do you mean 18 speed APs?

As for skip bombing, the manual says crews above 60 experience may do this. Is this still too low before attempting the tactic?

Another question, my SCs and PGs are target practice for Japanese subs. Just how high should their experience (day/night) be before I attempt to take on enemy subs? And any suggestions for an interim role while they gain experience? After seeing a few slaughtered I just move them back and forth on a very extended shakedown cruises but progress has been very slow, especially nighttime experience.

< Message edited by Peruna -- 12/14/2005 1:05:49 AM >

(in reply to Peruna)
Post #: 3
RE: A couple of question from a new player - 12/14/2005 8:57:21 AM   
wobbly

 

Posts: 1095
Joined: 10/16/2002
From: Christchurch, New Zealand
Status: offline 		Peruna

The P-39 is actually a great anti-naval plane. With her 37mm cannon she can put some serious holes in DDs down. She also carries a 500lb bomb (From memory that) so set them to 100ft Naval attack and they can make an awful mess of a transport TF - him trying to take Buna while you are in PM for instance.

As you have found out - using them in an air superiority role is a no go. Even here though they can be handy in the Northern Oz ports to persuade the long legged Betties and Nells to stay away . If you have no CAP up - and the computer checks for CAP before it sends a raid (it is looking for the amount of escort required and the zeros can't reach to Townsville from Rabaul - so the bombers are going alone) then the P-39 is enough to persuade them to stay away. Even if they override this because of good morale the P-39 will now be against bombers only and will take its toll.

the Wirraway is in much the same boat.

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Post #: 4
RE: A couple of question from a new player - 12/14/2005 9:11:26 AM   
LoBaron


Posts: 4776
Joined: 1/26/2003
From: Vienna, Austria
Status: offline 		both. you can use destroyers (plus CA´s and CL´s if you play japanese) for the most dangerous areas (they can defend themselves and are fast so when the airattacks start they are allready half way home) but most effective are the APD´s.
if you create a fast transport TF you can only select the ships capable of fast (un-) loading. you can also delect PG/PG´s for the task but they function only as escorts and have short range so may slow down the convoy when travelling far.
AP cant be selected for FT.

i start skip-bombing only if neccessary and if possible against light defended targets cause AAA can rip you apart at 100ft. after 60% its possible but with high penalties so i usually wait for juicy targets and then attack with my most elite units (squads with most pilots in the 75+ range)

SC´s are good for ASW if you use them in groups with 5 ships and more (in PBEM they are so effective that most ppl agree to house rules limiting the max number of ASW ships in a TF)
also dont forget that SC´s are cheap and not really suited for anything else so you can afford to loose them. after a few shakedown cruises and some ASW attacks you have a well experienced cheap weapon against the subs.

id like to write more but have to go to work... bbl


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Post #: 5
RE: A couple of question from a new player - 12/14/2005 3:52:05 PM   
Peruna

 

Posts: 11
Joined: 12/13/2005
From: Dallas
Status: offline 		Thanks for the responses. I'll try out the P-39s on a naval warfare role tonight. I messed around with skip bombing last night, but their air commander unfortunately picked the TF with several destroyers and cruisers instead of the lightly defended AP transport at Buna. It wasn't pretty. ;)

Nor was the Japanese raid on Cairns and Cooktown while my harbors were full of transport TFs. :(

(in reply to LoBaron)
Post #: 6
RE: A couple of question from a new player - 12/14/2005 7:02:24 PM   
crsutton


Posts: 9590
Joined: 12/6/2002
From: Maryland
Status: offline 		Key to everything is morale and fatigue. It is as important as plane type and skill levels. Rotate your fighters and rest them so that they are fighting the Japanese at the lowest fatigue level and highest morale levels.

Likewise, you must rest your bombers between missions. High fatigue and low morale will cost you too many planes.

Do not skip bomb with aircrews less than 70 experience. You will take high morale hits for skip bombing so you must rest afterwards. Skip bomb small DD TF or transports-never big warship TFs (you will get creamed). Skip bombing transports can be very rewarding.

P39 is actually a great plane-as long as you don't use it to fight zeros. They can hold against oscars and will shoot bombers to bits. They are great barge busters and will tear up DDs, PCs and transport. They carry a 250lb bomb (not 500) so it will not hurt larger ships. They are also very good for attacking troops.

Zeros will eat them (39s) for lunch. but use the 39s as much as you can to gain experience. They upgrade to P38s and then you will be dealing out some serious whup.

Hudsons are very valuable. Excellent long range allows them to reach out and hit transports going to Port Morsby. Just don't send them to places that are heavily defended. Air recon Japanese bases and bomb the ones that don't have air cover. Builds up experiences.

Save your B17s and use them sparingly at first. Mass them up and use them in large numbers to close bases up. Put them on search or ASW until you got a lot of them.

B24 is almost useless. I don't understand why but they take seconds to lose morale and forever to build it back up again. Very good for ASW

Wildcat and P40 can fight with the zero. However, in massed air battles with hundreds of planes they will die in spectacular numbers. This is a design flaw in the game and not much you can do about it.

Here are a few Japanese tips.

Never use your carrier bombers to attack ports. Save them for the American carriers. Don't waste bettys and nells this way either. Use naval bombardment to neutralzie ports, you never get enough bomber replacement so save them to kill ships.

Bettys and nells are the best sub killers in the game. If Allied subs are getting bold and things are quiet, place all betty and nells on 60% ASW and watch them go to work. Very high experience along with super range will sink Allied subs in droves. (key is keeping your high quality pilots alive).

High quality pilots with low morale and high fatique will still get shot down. Rest them.





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(in reply to Peruna)
Post #: 7
RE: A couple of question from a new player - 12/14/2005 8:50:45 PM   
P_DEX

 

Posts: 12
Joined: 9/17/2004
Status: offline 		Chiming in here...

In the early months of the game (May-Dec. '42) I use P-39's out of Port Moresby as naval attackers 95% of the time, while leaving the Aussie P-40's as CAP and occasionally sending them on fighter sweeps. Over time, the P-39s and the Beaufighter (when it comes into the theatre) seem to wreak all kinds of havoc on Japanese transports north of New Guinea. As the groups build up experience over time they become a formidable air power and will take small Japanese destroyers down as well. If it floats, then it's gonna get hit at some point.

My F4F squads seem to do all right...about average against the Zero I'd say. But don't send P-39s up in air combat unless you're desperate or you have plenty of other fighters to escort them :) Even sheer numbers don't seem to help the P-39 in air combat, especially above 10k feet.

(in reply to Peruna)
Post #: 8
RE: A couple of question from a new player - 12/15/2005 1:11:07 PM   
LoBaron


Posts: 4776
Joined: 1/26/2003
From: Vienna, Austria
Status: offline 		Peruna, you also said that the japanese whacked some of your AP/AK´s in northern australia. thats a result of the computer AI settings: from my experience the AI often sets its planes for naval attack and then airfield/port attack as a secondary target. so if there are transports in NA (cooktown, cairns,...) the bettys and nells with their extreme range are able to intercept them (for open water they are to far away but they attack the docked TFs but escort fighters -even the long range A6M2- cant reach the target.

you can counter this with some older fighter squads on CAP in NA (P39, Wirraway and the likes) and the ones you use to rotate into PM. often this is enough to make the japanese cancel the naval attack but then they are most certainly bound for PM. IF they press the attack thats good experience for your pilots and the bettys/nells cant afford high losses.

and read some of the AAR´s (e.g. wobbly´s AARs are like reading a good book ;) ). you learn much about tactics and how the game developes.

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Post #: 9
RE: A couple of question from a new player - 12/15/2005 6:36:42 PM   
Peruna

 

Posts: 11
Joined: 12/13/2005
From: Dallas
Status: offline 		The tips given in this thread did wonders for me last night. Even my P30s finally served a purpose when they chewed up a Japanese DD with their 37mm cannons and long-range attacks on Australia have been curtailed.

I enjoy reading AARs so I'll seek out Wobbly's.

Thanks again for making this enjoyable game even moreso.

(in reply to LoBaron)
Post #: 10
RE: A couple of question from a new player - 12/16/2005 2:31:14 AM   
LoBaron


Posts: 4776
Joined: 1/26/2003
From: Vienna, Austria
Status: offline 		hmm just noticed that wobbly´s AAR vanished in the big forum crash. anyways there are many others to go...

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Post #: 11
RE: A couple of question from a new player - 12/16/2005 3:30:36 AM   
rogueusmc


Posts: 4583
Joined: 2/8/2004
From: Texas...what country are YOU from?
Status: offline 		It's still there.

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=404574

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(in reply to LoBaron)
Post #: 12
RE: A couple of question from a new player - 12/16/2005 4:00:22 AM   
Peruna

 

Posts: 11
Joined: 12/13/2005
From: Dallas
Status: offline 		I'm reading Herbie Goes Bananas. Is that a good one of his to read?

Also, is there any way to avoid/reduce system damage, such as not moving during thunder storm days? And given no pressing matters at what level of sys damage is it wise to send the ships into dock to repair the damage and should I wait until all systems are 0 before heading back out, again assuming no immediate urgency?

(in reply to rogueusmc)
Post #: 13
RE: A couple of question from a new player - 12/16/2005 4:05:01 AM   
rogueusmc


Posts: 4583
Joined: 2/8/2004
From: Texas...what country are YOU from?
Status: offline 		Yes...that AAR is my all-time favorite...more of a narrative.

I usually keep them until 0 unless I need the ship badly. If it has more than 10, I send it back to PH...it'll come back with upgrades and it may create a demand for more ships in theater.

_____________________________

There are only two kinds of people that understand Marines: Marines and the enemy. Everyone else has a second-hand opinion.

Gen. William Thornson, U.S. Army


(in reply to Peruna)
Post #: 14
RE: A couple of question from a new player - 12/16/2005 2:41:19 PM   
LoBaron


Posts: 4776
Joined: 1/26/2003
From: Vienna, Austria
Status: offline 		sending back ships to PH is a wise thing to do if you play US: the ships receive upgrades (AAA and radar) so search for ships that dont have bofors or oerlikon AAA and no radar (mainly the australian and older US classes) and they come back much stronger. an upgraded US ship can place attacking japanese aircraft in a world of hurt...

for the japanese it doesnt make sense except for really heavy damage and if chances are high that you will receive replacements because they dont get upgrades making the 180 day trip back to japan and then to truk again worthwhile. also the replacement probability of the japanese goes down in time so its absolutely possible that you wont get a ship back after its repaired (simulates the constant pressure on all fronts on the japanese so the need the ships elsewhere)

how you handle system damage depends only on the situation. usually i send ships to big bases after the have more than 5-8 sys but if neccessary i keep them in operation in much worse condition. a damaged ship is better than none if you have to perform a mission...


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Post #: 15
RE: A couple of question from a new player - 12/16/2005 2:42:08 PM   
LoBaron


Posts: 4776
Joined: 1/26/2003
From: Vienna, Austria
Status: offline 		good to hear...

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Post #: 16
RE: A couple of question from a new player - 12/17/2005 8:04:32 PM   
Peruna

 

Posts: 11
Joined: 12/13/2005
From: Dallas
Status: offline 		On the aircraft data screen it shows my Beaufort's utilizing a torpedo, however during the naval attack sequence they drop 500lb bombs. Is this a bug?

Also, it was mentioned previously that my CAP should be +1,000ft from the attack they will intercept. The Japanese consistently send their bombers at 6,000ft, so I set my CAP at 7,000ft. However, during the text of the interception portion of the attack it shows that my fighters are climbing to dogfight with the Japanese escort. Should I be +1,000 from the escort or the bombing attack?

(in reply to LoBaron)
Post #: 17
RE: A couple of question from a new player - 12/17/2005 10:11:09 PM   
rogueusmc


Posts: 4583
Joined: 2/8/2004
From: Texas...what country are YOU from?
Status: offline 		If they fly extended range, they will always carry bombs...normal range has a dice roll to find out whether it'll carry torps or not.

_____________________________

There are only two kinds of people that understand Marines: Marines and the enemy. Everyone else has a second-hand opinion.

Gen. William Thornson, U.S. Army


(in reply to Peruna)
Post #: 18
RE: A couple of question from a new player - 12/17/2005 10:12:04 PM   
rogueusmc


Posts: 4583
Joined: 2/8/2004
From: Texas...what country are YOU from?
Status: offline 		The ones climbing are the ready CAP on the ground taking off and climbing to intercept.

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There are only two kinds of people that understand Marines: Marines and the enemy. Everyone else has a second-hand opinion.

Gen. William Thornson, U.S. Army


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Post #: 19
RE: A couple of question from a new player - 12/18/2005 12:13:45 AM   
Peruna

 

Posts: 11
Joined: 12/13/2005
From: Dallas
Status: offline 		Thanks, Roguesmc.

Final couple of questions for awhile.

1) I set up an AV on non-base island and had a Catalina squadron fly from there for naval search purposes. However, now it's showing that half the squadron is damaged and the other half are in reserve with no active planes and it is not changing. Nor does it change when I try to transport the squadron back to a functioning base. How can get these planes back?

2) I'm about to embark on an invasion of Guadalcanal. Do I land my APD directly on Lunga, the Japanese occupied area, or on the empty adjacent beach hex and have my units march to Lunga and attack from there?

(in reply to rogueusmc)
Post #: 20
RE: A couple of question from a new player - 12/18/2005 12:19:53 AM   
TAIL GUNNER

 

Posts: 1152
Joined: 4/27/2005
From: Los Osos, CA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Peruna

Thanks, Roguesmc.

Final couple of questions for awhile.

1) I set up an AV on non-base island and had a Catalina squadron fly from there for naval search purposes. However, now it's showing that half the squadron is damaged and the other half are in reserve with no active planes and it is not changing. Nor does it change when I try to transport the squadron back to a functioning base. How can get these planes back?

2) I'm about to embark on an invasion of Guadalcanal. Do I land my APD directly on Lunga, the Japanese occupied area, or on the empty adjacent beach hex and have my units march to Lunga and attack from there?


1. You need some supplies there too....and the AV has to stay parked at the base....

2. Any of those options will work...

(in reply to Peruna)
Post #: 21
RE: A couple of question from a new player - 12/19/2005 7:53:47 AM   
LoBaron


Posts: 4776
Joined: 1/26/2003
From: Vienna, Austria
Status: offline 		2) dont forget that your troops get fatigued fast in a malaria zone without a large base. so if you are strong enough attacking lunga directly is the better option. if you have a really strong force AND naval/air superiority you could additionally invade the 2 other hexes on guadalcanal to cut off retreat/resupply paths for the japanese.
if you invade one of the other hexes you should include engineer units to build forts and bases and have to be aware that it takes bout 2 weeks to march through the jungle to lunga. when you arrive there you can be sure that your troops will be down to 75% combat effectiveness because of fatigue/dmg.


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RE: A couple of question from a new player - 12/21/2005 12:17:39 AM   
anarchyintheuk

 

Posts: 3921
Joined: 5/5/2004
From: Dallas
Status: offline 		Minor point, but if you land at Lunga, most people consider it weasel-like to land a raider battalion at tassafronga or the other one to block the line of retreat.

Nice to see another person from the metroplex.

(in reply to LoBaron)
Post #: 23
RE: A couple of question from a new player - 12/22/2005 2:00:57 AM   
LoBaron


Posts: 4776
Joined: 1/26/2003
From: Vienna, Austria
Status: offline 		only those people who neglect to cover their retreat paths i guess...

land warfare is much about encirclement and if you invite someone to do it its your own fault.
period.

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Post #: 24
RE: A couple of question from a new player - 12/27/2005 11:18:43 PM   
Peruna

 

Posts: 11
Joined: 12/13/2005
From: Dallas
Status: offline 		Another question has cropped up. I started receiving HQ units. Such as the II Amphib, I Corps, I Aus Corps, 5th AF, etc.

None of my units are attached to these corps, so how can I tell which units will receive a proximity bonus from their presence? I assume II Amphib is Marine units, I Corp US Army in Australia, and I Aus Corp Australian Army, and 5th AF US air units in Australia. Is this correct?

Also, how do people utilize these units? Right now they are all in the rear with the gear for me. Is that their proper place?


(in reply to LoBaron)
Post #: 25
RE: A couple of question from a new player - 12/29/2005 1:37:08 AM   
LoBaron


Posts: 4776
Joined: 1/26/2003
From: Vienna, Austria
Status: offline 		IIRC every HQ unit has units attached to it. it could be that the HQ´s recently arrived and the sub units are still on their way.
but divisional HQ´s are sometimes attached to higher HQs.
e.g. as japan you have 35 brigade, 65 division (just an example not sure if its the correct units) and so on attached to 17th army HQ.
these HQ´s have longer range of influence on moral and support (japan 3 hexes, US 3, sometimes 6 hexes).

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Post #: 26
RE: A couple of question from a new player - 12/29/2005 9:01:46 PM   
anarchyintheuk

 

Posts: 3921
Joined: 5/5/2004
From: Dallas
Status: offline 		As far as I remember, any corps level command will affect any unit within its command range. Try to keep all your important bases (including forward ones) w/ at least a div hq and w/i a corps level hq.

There isn't a strict chain of command from theatre hqs -> corps hqs -> div hqs -> lcus. Would have been cool if there was.

BTW, LoBaron yer right about keeping your line of retreat open IRL. However, in UV it's probably something that should be discussed w/ your opponent in a pbem prior to playing.

(in reply to LoBaron)
Post #: 27
RE: A couple of question from a new player - 12/30/2005 12:05:27 AM   
LoBaron


Posts: 4776
Joined: 1/26/2003
From: Vienna, Austria
Status: offline 		i think youre right with HQ.
SOME of them are attached though. like divisions attached to 17th or 18th army as japan.
in my version of UV i got OOB´s attached as pdf files where you can trace the operational structure of both sides. it helps a lot.

ok i also agree that it could be discussed prior to the game if you dont want to use encirclement.
but i dont see any exploits that result by using encirclement tactics.

i like house rules like limiting ASW TF´s and no 90% CAP over carriers and so on cause it takes realism out of the game.
this is not a land warfare game so the land compat models are too simplyfied compared to the rest and you got a point there.

but since by covering your retreat path you force the enemy to split forces or try to take a weak point if not strong enough and - as in RL - the defender doesnt have the initiative and has to defend probable targets which - as in RL - hands over initiative to the attacker which can be countered by building up fortifications and using tactical reserves - as in RL ;) - such an agreement takes "land warfare fun" out of the game. (what a screwed sentence but i hope you understand what i mean...)
but thats just my opinion. :)

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Post #: 28
RE: A couple of question from a new player - 12/30/2005 1:44:31 AM   
pasternakski


Posts: 6565
Joined: 6/29/2002
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LoBaron

i think youre right with HQ.
SOME of them are attached though. like divisions attached to 17th or 18th army as japan.
in my version of UV i got OOB´s attached as pdf files where you can trace the operational structure of both sides. it helps a lot.

Yeah, anarchy is right (jeez, I love saying that). A land HQ lends its bonuses to any LCU within command range (and, strangely enough, a range of "1" means "in the same hex," not "in an adjacent hex," so you count distance by pointing at the HQ's hex and say, "one").

I'm the idiot who wasted his time creating those land OOB files, which I submitted to Matrix as Excel spreadsheets before I understood that they don't mean a doggone thing (somebody redid them to include more information and posted them on Spooky's site, if you want them. I think they just became a confusing mess, but who am I, other than the guy who re-invented the square wheel?). Besides, when they converted 'em to PDFs (I'm sure you noticed this), the scale was so attenuated that you have to zoom - and zoom - and zoom some more - before they're big enough even to read.

The color scheme was fun, though.

_____________________________

Put my faith in the people
And the people let me down.
So, I turned the other way,
And I carry on anyhow.

(in reply to LoBaron)
Post #: 29
RE: A couple of question from a new player - 12/30/2005 8:12:50 AM   
TAIL GUNNER

 

Posts: 1152
Joined: 4/27/2005
From: Los Osos, CA
Status: offline
quote:

I'm the idiot who wasted his time creating those land OOB files, which I submitted to Matrix as Excel spreadsheets before I understood that they don't mean a doggone thing


Huh, and people say you've never contributed anything positive...

Those files were pretty handy when I played this game back in the day and I'd still recommend them if you're one of those goobs like me that like to keep his digital armies nice and organized.
Here's the link for the Spook's site:

http://mathubert.free.fr/

(in reply to pasternakski)
Post #: 30
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