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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> War In The Pacific - Struggle Against Japan 1941 - 1945 >> The War Room >> Kawasaki Ki-48 Lily

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Kawasaki Ki-48 Lily - 12/23/2005 9:42:10 PM

atomu

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uhm... I know these old warhorses are considered useless...

But still - what is the best way to use them?

Thanks

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RE: Kawasaki Ki-48 Lily - 12/23/2005 9:44:32 PM

fabertong

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Convert them to Sallies........

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RE: Kawasaki Ki-48 Lily - 12/23/2005 11:47:45 PM

Nikademus

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Carefully.

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RE: Kawasaki Ki-48 Lily - 12/24/2005 7:28:17 AM

tsimmonds

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If you aren't using PDUs, put them on naval search at max range in the SRA. Good for spotting (and occasionally attacking) subs.

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RE: Kawasaki Ki-48 Lily - 12/24/2005 7:45:12 AM

pasternakski

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Put them together with Rosemary and the Jack of Hearts.

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RE: Kawasaki Ki-48 Lily - 12/27/2005 2:34:02 PM

DuckHunt

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Use them to bomb targets where there is no/anemic allied fighter cover : China, PI mainly; Right they are less efficient than Ki-21 but still you have quite a few of them so lets put them to good use at little risks; save your Ki-21 to better use against more difficult targets;
Same for older japanese DBs like the Mary; use against soft targets and for units doing heavy training.

As a rule of thumb save your best planes for your elite pilots and against harddened targets, use others for training and target practice; after all you will have ops losses no matter what so no need to waste your best planes types if you can avoid it and still have good results.

Happy Holidays!

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RE: Kawasaki Ki-48 Lily - 12/27/2005 5:32:46 PM

Nikademus

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They are very good against Merchant ship targets. Their light bombs wont faze a major warship but all those little bombs can saturate a merchant convoy well.

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RE: Kawasaki Ki-48 Lily - 12/27/2005 6:30:31 PM

niceguy2005

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As a paper weight

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RE: Kawasaki Ki-48 Lily - 12/27/2005 6:41:32 PM

Feinder

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I think it's funny that a 'useless' plane for the Japanese, is quite normal for Allied bombers from 12-41 until about 03-42.

Lilly roughly equals:
Blen I
A-20

Not that I particularly like either the Blen I or the A-20 either. But you use what you have in those first months.

Probably not for me to say, since I don't play Japan that much. But it also seems to me that benching a truely worthless plane, is better than compelling one's self to use those squardons to drain the airframe pool. If you force yourself to burn thru the Lillies, just to use 'em up, you're losing PILOTS. Who cares about the airframe. But if you burn thru 100 Lillies just to use them up, you've also burned thru 100 pilots. Seems to me that, it's better to simply bench the Lillies until you can actually upgrade them.

But I dunno. As an Allied player, I'm throwing anything with wings into the air those first few months. But I also don't have to worry about pilot shortages. I can afford to "burn off" the old crap, because I've got replacement pilots on deck. But Japan doesn't have that luxury. (* shrug *)

-F-

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RE: Kawasaki Ki-48 Lily - 12/27/2005 6:42:10 PM

niceguy2005

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Actually, use them in a ground attack role to soften up targets. Historically, aren't these tactical bombers?

Link to site that talks about how the Japanese used them. Check out the picture of the gunner hanging out the bottom of the plane. Would kind of suck to be him wouldn't it?

http://pilotfriend.com/century-of-flight/Aviation%20history/WW2/new%20WW2%20airaft/Kawasaki%20Ki-48%20Lily.htm

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RE: Kawasaki Ki-48 Lily - 12/27/2005 6:46:55 PM

Nikademus

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You can, but be careful in their employement as they are very vulnerable to AA and enemy fighters. Their light load will not impress any LCU's or bases much however. Best used in conjunction with heavier bombers to beef up the raid.

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RE: Kawasaki Ki-48 Lily - 12/27/2005 6:51:02 PM

niceguy2005

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Feinder

I think it's funny that a 'useless' plane for the Japanese, is quite normal for Allied bombers from 12-41 until about 03-42.

Lilly roughly equals:
Blen I
A-20

Not that I particularly like either the Blen I or the A-20 either. But you use what you have in those first months.

Probably not for me to say, since I don't play Japan that much. But it also seems to me that benching a truely worthless plane, is better than compelling one's self to use those squardons to drain the airframe pool. If you force yourself to burn thru the Lillies, just to use 'em up, you're losing PILOTS. Who cares about the airframe. But if you burn thru 100 Lillies just to use them up, you've also burned thru 100 pilots. Seems to me that, it's better to simply bench the Lillies until you can actually upgrade them.

But I dunno. As an Allied player, I'm throwing anything with wings into the air those first few months. But I also don't have to worry about pilot shortages. I can afford to "burn off" the old crap, because I've got replacement pilots on deck. But Japan doesn't have that luxury. (* shrug *)

-F-

While pilots are an issue for Japan, so are planes of any sort. As someone who recenlty has played Japan for the first time I was shocked to see how limited the replenishment rate is for Japanese aircraft.

The Japanese can't afford to burn through anything, including outdated bombers. My limited experience says use them, but use them in areas where they don't face Allied front line fighters. THis means early on in PI and Malaya, then DEI and finally, perhaps China. Save your Sallies to replenish your Sally squadrons.

As a side note, I don't think there is any such thing as a useless bomber, just bombers that need to be used more carefully. Once pilots are trained up, I find Marin's, Blens, Hudsons and A-20's to all be usefull.

As a second side, I take back the first side. B-18s may well be useless. I don't actually think they have ever flown a naval or ground attack mission for me. Anybody ever successfully use a B-18 on an attack?

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RE: Kawasaki Ki-48 Lily - 12/27/2005 6:57:27 PM

Sardaukar

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In CHS (at least), while pilot pool is not critical for Allies, some parts of it are. Chinese, Dutch, Brits and Australians need bit more careful treating than US. I'm constantly running out of Brit and Dutch pilots because I have to use them in combat faster than they accumulate. That's bad...
Thus, older planes that cannot manage against enemy well are put on easier duty, if possible to train up their pilots.

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RE: Kawasaki Ki-48 Lily - 12/27/2005 7:55:50 PM

atomu

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Dear All

thanks for your comments. Perhaps I should first clarify that I do not consider the Lily "useless" - I said "they are considered useless"... Personally, I tend to respect these old and ugly Kawasaki warhorses...

Anyway, I was using the Ki-48 for soft targets on PI, where don't suffer losses, but it seems some of you have achieved some satisfactory results against convoys, so they might even be of some use in the Pacific - that is, if IJN can establish forward air bases in places like Noumea AND has managed to damage or sink the BIG FOUR fleet carriers by mid-42.

In some AI experiments, I noticed that the Sonias are actually rather effective against landing craft or convoys - if allied forces try to recapture forward bases in 42 or 43 without fleet carrier support. CVEs can be handled by Sonias and Zeros. So the Vals and Kates can be saved for later...

So maybe the Lily can serve on that front as well.

Again, thanks for your comments...

A

P.S. Has anyone ever used a I-400 class IJN subs?

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RE: Kawasaki Ki-48 Lily - 12/27/2005 8:34:52 PM

Feinder

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I-400 : Yes. I have a campaign '45 game going as Japan. (Realistic) Problem for me is that Allied ASW will kill you quick in 1945. So all of my subs are used mainly for mine-laying and supply transport.

-F-

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RE: Kawasaki Ki-48 Lily - 12/27/2005 8:53:33 PM

AmiralLaurent

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The best use for Ki-48 after the first months of the war is flying naval search in the rear to chase submarines. High-exp crew will clear the sea better than any ASW group.

The most useless AC in Japanese arsenal are IMHO the Pete (naval search floatplane with ridiculous range) and the Hickory (transport with small load and ridiculous range). They are nothing than free points given to the Allied.

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RE: Kawasaki Ki-48 Lily - 12/28/2005 2:54:54 PM

atomu

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Admiral,

for all their worth, the Hickories did serve me rather well in the Burma Area as rear area transports... they can supply troops stuck in difficult terrain or between bases that are not too far apart...

They be of some use in the PI and in the Sea Straights between Malaya and the Northern Part of DEI if properly deployed.

The Pete - I would agree that it is difficult to find an efficient way to use this little old war-donkey... EEEEH-AHHHH...

Thanks for the ASW suggestion. This is a matter I have been treating lighty...

Regards,

A

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RE: Kawasaki Ki-48 Lily - 12/28/2005 6:40:29 PM

niceguy2005

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I have used Pete's at ports to keep subs away. They aren't exactly hunter/killers, but they can force the subs to keep a low profile.

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RE: Kawasaki Ki-48 Lily - 12/28/2005 6:44:32 PM

rtrapasso

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quote:

The Pete - I would agree that it is difficult to find an efficient way to use this little old war-donkey... EEEEH-AHHHH...

Methinks you've put too much of a burden on him...

Attachment (1)

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RE: Kawasaki Ki-48 Lily - 12/28/2005 10:55:59 PM

atomu

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A somewhat illustrative way of expressing your thoughts on the Pete, indeed, I would say.

Thank you.

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RE: Kawasaki Ki-48 Lily - 1/3/2006 9:53:50 PM

Mike Solli

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I use the Petes on ASW with range 0-1 at sub choke points. They hit as often as any other planes - pretty much never.

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RE: Kawasaki Ki-48 Lily - 1/3/2006 9:59:24 PM

niceguy2005

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I find Jakes to be very useful for anti-sub activities. Probably better than Pete's.

As I recall in the rules it does state that while subs may not get hit a lot by air search, many aircraft flying ASW will force them to keep a very low profile, i.e. rarely attack.

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RE: Kawasaki Ki-48 Lily - 1/4/2006 12:31:27 AM

janushm

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mine are all out of service and its only january 42.

im gonna use em as trainers, flying around 30EXP pilots in china.
as for pete's? stop production asap!

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RE: Kawasaki Ki-48 Lily - 1/4/2006 10:10:58 PM

Mike Solli

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quote:

ORIGINAL: janushm
as for pete's? stop production asap!

I agree with that. I produce only Alfs and Glens. But I do use up what's in the pools at start.

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RE: Kawasaki Ki-48 Lily - 1/5/2006 12:54:30 AM

janushm

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i totally replace everything that is outdated or if there is something better on the market. Right now with all lily's replaced i am already replacing all sally's with helens. just changed all IJAF bomber production to them.

i need to keep the pools at least partially filled for the replacement planes.

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RE: Kawasaki Ki-48 Lily - 1/11/2006 9:32:48 PM

John 3rd

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I do the same. Use the planes in 'safe' areas and then upgrade as soon as possible--give me a Helen or Sally... I remember the WitP Surivial Guide (or something like that) from Spooky's site. It was rather useful on which planes to 'ditch' and which ones to build LOTS of! Good resource.

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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> War In The Pacific - Struggle Against Japan 1941 - 1945 >> The War Room >> Kawasaki Ki-48 Lily

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