RE: Unit Depictions on Screen

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RE: Unit Depictions on Screen - 12/30/2005 6:56:16 PM

Froonp

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British Commonwealth :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Commonwealth
But I think the UK Flag would be more suited.

For the US Flag, I didn't know it changed, is it because of the Hawaian State being added ? This is a new star is it ? Does it show ?

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Post #: 121

RE: Unit Depictions on Screen - 12/30/2005 6:59:05 PM

Froonp

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quote:

For the US Flag, I didn't know it changed, is it because of the Hawaian State being added ? This is a new star is it ? Does it show ?

Is it this one (48 stars) ?

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Post #: 122

RE: Unit Depictions on Screen - 12/30/2005 7:15:59 PM

Alexander Seil

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Italy had a different flag back then, too (with the Savoy shield in the center).

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Post #: 123

RE: Unit Depictions on Screen - 12/30/2005 7:16:34 PM

stretch

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I think the swastika is banned in Germany, so if you use those flags it might be illegal to distribute the game in that country.

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Post #: 124

RE: Unit Depictions on Screen - 12/30/2005 7:20:50 PM

stretch

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Froonp

quote:

For the US Flag, I didn't know it changed, is it because of the Hawaian State being added ? This is a new star is it ? Does it show ?

Is it this one (48 stars) ?

that's the correct one, used from 1912 to 1959. 6 rows of 8 stars. Thank goodness Hawaii came on board and we got an even 50 in 1960 because the 49 star flag was odd looking.

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Post #: 125

RE: Unit Depictions on Screen - 12/30/2005 7:29:32 PM

Shannon V. OKeets

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Froonp

quote:

For the US Flag, I didn't know it changed, is it because of the Hawaian State being added ? This is a new star is it ? Does it show ?

Is it this one (48 stars) ?

The US flag has changed a lot over the years. Originally it had 13 stripes and 13 stars to represent the 13 colonies (states). After some variations it has settled down to be 13 stripes with the number of stars changing as more states entered into the union. Alaska (49) and Hawaii (50) are the additions post WW II - late 1950's.

Thanks for all the flags. And yes, the Swastika is a problem.

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Perfection is an elusive goal.

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Post #: 126

RE: Unit Depictions on Screen - 12/30/2005 7:35:02 PM

Froonp

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quote:

Italy had a different flag back then, too (with the Savoy shield in the center).

This one for the country.

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Post #: 127

RE: Unit Depictions on Screen - 12/30/2005 7:35:27 PM

Shannon V. OKeets

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quote:

ORIGINAL: stretch

I think the swastika is banned in Germany, so if you use those flags it might be illegal to distribute the game in that country.

So the flags I am still missing are:

German flag without a swastika (circa 1930'S?).

USSR flag (circa 1940)

Italian flag (circa 1940)

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Post #: 128

RE: Unit Depictions on Screen - 12/30/2005 7:35:46 PM

Froonp

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This one for the Military

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Post #: 129

RE: Unit Depictions on Screen - 12/30/2005 7:40:53 PM

Froonp

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quote:

German flag without a swastika (circa 1930'S?).

I say, ask the guys at Matrix what they did put in others WWII games for the German flags to avoid a svastika being drawn.
What a crap this law. As if you could ban ideas by banning the symbols.
Maybe you could use the normal flag with only a black cross instead of the svastikas. anyway, maybe you could use the svastika for normal countries, and have a patch for those Germans ?

quote:

USSR flag (circa 1940)

Was it different ?
I have this one for the military of USSR, but I never saw it anywhere indeed.

It is the one of the Russian Navy indeed.

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< Message edited by Froonp -- 12/30/2005 8:15:43 PM >

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Post #: 130

RE: Unit Depictions on Screen - 12/30/2005 7:41:52 PM

Froonp

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And this one for the country.

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Post #: 131

RE: Unit Depictions on Screen - 12/30/2005 7:43:33 PM

Froonp

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United Kingdom, Military

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Post #: 132

RE: Unit Depictions on Screen - 12/30/2005 7:45:53 PM

Froonp

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And this one for the United Kingdom Military. Don't remember why I had 2 of them. All those draped flags I have must all come from the same place, but I don't remember where. I used to collect flags pictures on my computer, I find them pretty. and anyway, I like to recognise flags.

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Post #: 133

RE: Unit Depictions on Screen - 12/30/2005 7:45:58 PM

JanSorensen

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I do not believe Germany had but the one official flag between 1935 and 1945 (in a naval and a land version).

See this page for more info.

This one has the virtue of being German and looking good.

but personally I think you should use the real one despite the problems.

< Message edited by JanSorensen -- 12/30/2005 7:53:13 PM >

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Post #: 134

RE: Unit Depictions on Screen - 12/30/2005 7:49:05 PM

Froonp

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Poland from WWII

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Post #: 135

RE: Unit Depictions on Screen - 12/30/2005 8:13:15 PM

Shannon V. OKeets

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Froonp
Poland from WWII

The flags are used as icon to indicate which major power is "on move", so I only need them for the major powers.

During setup, there is a rigid order for setting up the major powers. The flags indicate whichmajor power is setting up units.

During a turn it should be more flexible with a player able to switch back and forth between different major powers on the same side (assuming one player controls more than one major power).

The current design I am contemplating for this is to have all the flags at the top of the screen (small icons) and highlight those of the major powers that can move units (make decisions) during the current phase. For example, there might be several major powers on the same side that can make naval moves, All those capable of doing that would have their flags highlighted. Any one of them that has moved all possible units (e.g., reached their activity limits) would be changed slightly. They could still go back and undo orders, so they need to be distinguished from major powers that can't move any units during the current phase. The player clicks on the flag of a major power and he then moves their units.

An example of the latter occurs during land combat when the US is still neutral: the Commonwealth might have reached the activity limit for their attack orders; the Chinese not making any attacks; and the French in the middle of entering theirs. The flags at the top would indicate: USA - no possible moves, CW - all entered but can undo, French and Chinese - may still enter. Note that the phase does not end until all the major powers on the side agree. The Axis flags would be separated from those of the Allies with yet a fourth indicator (probably a surrounding box that is black, while the Allies surrounding box would be green). I am not sure how CWIF handled this - I need to read the code (and that section is a lot of undocumented code).

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Post #: 136

RE: Unit Depictions on Screen - 12/30/2005 8:20:58 PM

Froonp

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quote:

The flags are used as icon to indicate which major power is "on move", so I only need them for the major powers.

And to indicate who own an hex, isn't it ?
There are already flags for all this (icons & hex ownership) in CWiF you what to change them ?

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Post #: 137

RE: Unit Depictions on Screen - 12/30/2005 8:38:32 PM

Rorgg

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The nationalist Chinese used what's now the flag of Chinese Taipei.

The ChiComms use the current PROC flag. We missing anything?

BTW, I'd just use the union jack for the CW, all the CW nations had it incorporated into their own flags to my knowledge.

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Post #: 138

RE: Unit Depictions on Screen - 12/30/2005 8:54:08 PM

pak19652002

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quote:

I say, ask the guys at Matrix what they did put in others WWII games for the German flags to avoid a svastika being drawn.

Did ADG banish the swastika to obey this law?

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Post #: 139

RE: Unit Depictions on Screen - 12/30/2005 9:02:53 PM

stretch

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quote:

ORIGINAL: pak19652002

Did ADG banish the swastika to obey this law?

I've never owned any version of DoD but I notice from online screenshots that the countersheet with swastikas was reissued in 2000 with a different symbol.

http://perso.wanadoo.fr/froon/WiF/counters/CSH13.html

< Message edited by stretch -- 12/30/2005 9:30:21 PM >

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Post #: 140

RE: Unit Depictions on Screen - 12/30/2005 9:37:08 PM

Shannon V. OKeets

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Froonp

quote:

The flags are used as icon to indicate which major power is "on move", so I only need them for the major powers.

And to indicate who own an hex, isn't it ?
There are already flags for all this (icons & hex ownership) in CWiF you what to change them ?

Yes, and who controls a hex.

The existing flags are for the smaller hex size - half the width, half the height. I want to make the icon on which the flag depictions are based larger. They will then be zoomed to the same relative size as in CWIF. CWIF started with small icons and simply doubled all the pixels as you zoomed in (the icons got bigger and clunkier).

Rob Armstrong has taught me that it is best to start with the largest image the player will see, make that as pretty as possible, and then let the zoom out feature modify it to a smaller, less beautiful image.

I also think somewhat larger flags at the top would be easier to see and click on - there is room up there.

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Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

(in reply to Froonp)

Post #: 141

RE: Unit Depictions on Screen - 12/30/2005 9:39:14 PM

Shannon V. OKeets

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rorgg
The nationalist Chinese used what's now the flag of Chinese Taipei.

The ChiComms use the current PROC flag. We missing anything?

BTW, I'd just use the union jack for the CW, all the CW nations had it incorporated into their own flags to my knowledge.

Yeah, the Union Jack sounds good to me. The official Commonwealth flag was a shock to my system. I don't think I have ever seen it before. The Union Jack is recognized world-wide (or so the British would have everyone believe).

_____________________________

Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

(in reply to Rorgg)

Post #: 142

RE: Unit Depictions on Screen - 12/30/2005 9:40:37 PM

Shannon V. OKeets

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quote:

ORIGINAL: pak19652002

quote:

I say, ask the guys at Matrix what they did put in others WWII games for the German flags to avoid a svastika being drawn.

Did ADG banish the swastika to obey this law?

I don't see the swastika on any of the counters - not even the SS units.

_____________________________

Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

(in reply to pak19652002)

Post #: 143

RE: Unit Depictions on Screen - 12/30/2005 9:56:49 PM

JanSorensen

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

quote:

ORIGINAL: pak19652002

quote:

I say, ask the guys at Matrix what they did put in others WWII games for the German flags to avoid a svastika being drawn.

Did ADG banish the swastika to obey this law?

I don't see the swastika on any of the counters - not even the SS units.

The units did not but the control markers did.

(in reply to Shannon V. OKeets)

Post #: 144

RE: Unit Depictions on Screen - 12/30/2005 10:50:59 PM

Shannon V. OKeets

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quote:

ORIGINAL: JanSorensen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

quote:

ORIGINAL: pak19652002
Did ADG banish the swastika to obey this law?

I don't see the swastika on any of the counters - not even the SS units.

The units did not but the control markers did.

Perhaps only in the earlier editions? I don't see swastikas on any of the WIF FE counter sheets (and I have them all with the units still in them).

It doesn't matter though. I will go with no swastika on the German flag, erring on the side of caution.

_____________________________

Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

(in reply to JanSorensen)

Post #: 145

RE: Unit Depictions on Screen - 12/30/2005 11:01:00 PM

Froonp

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quote:

Did ADG banish the swastika to obey this law?

They didn't, and it appears in minor places in DoD III (on the background of the political actions card for Germany). ADG had complied with the anti svastika rules by replacing all svastikas everywhere with the Black Cross instead, but they did not reprint the Political options cards.
The German Political Police caught a load of the brand new games when they entered Germany last year, and destroyed hundreds of these, and made the local ADG man under political investigation. They suspected him of being pro nazi.

You like it or not, but the German Political Police takes it seriously.

How is it solved in others Matrix games games ? There are lots of WWII games done by Matrix, how do they solve the svastika problem ?

(in reply to pak19652002)

Post #: 146

RE: Unit Depictions on Screen - 12/30/2005 11:01:22 PM

Rorgg

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You know which one? The black-white-red tricolor with horizontal stripes was official until 1935, and it uses the same color scheme as the actual one in use at the time, so that may be the best alternate.

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Post #: 147

RE: Unit Depictions on Screen - 12/30/2005 11:18:47 PM

JanSorensen

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GG:WaW (2by3, published by MatrixGames) uses this flag for the Germans as an alternative option.