Khornish
Posts: 275
Joined: 5/7/2005
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I've been playing a 1796 scenario as the Prussians over the past several days. I've done quite well and it's now 1808 with the Prussian Empire being in the lead for Glory.
I just earned a hard won victory in a war with Sweden that lasted about 6 years. I had over 250,000 Swedes as POWs. It took me 6 years to defeat them because their NML was high due to luxury consumption being greater than the morale loss to casualties/battles lost + my 5 (!) diplomats all using propaganda every turn. During this period, I fought 2 wars against Austria, 2 against Russia, 1 against France, and the one with Britain mentioned below.
I've been in a constant war with Britain for about 8 years now. They attacked me, as did the Swedes, without a DOW and I've been mauling their armies each time they endeavor to invade. I've about 300,000 British POWs. Wellington was also captured and he now works for Prussia...I had to chuckle about that one.
I've taken Denmark entirely, as well as Hanover, and about 4 other provinces that had been British provinces or protectorates.
I've also been able to wipe out a large chunk of the British privateer and merchant fleets in the North and Baltic seas, the survivors fled to safer waters. In addition, I destroyed about 120 British naval vessels. Unfortunately, their navy is still about 40% larger than mine, so I have to snap up smaller fleets as I can.
So far England has refused my past offers of a ceasefire. 1 offer a year for 7 years. Now, with my chain of success unbroken, a huge number of their soldiers as my prisoners they STILL have a national morale of 1000. I can't bring this war to an end, which I'd like to do so that I can continue taking out Austria (I own everything north of the Danube).
Which brings me to this.
I am not happy with how POWs are handled. My having them doesn't hurt the previous owner other than having temporarily lost his ability to use them in the field.
When the war does end, previous owner gets them back at the strength they were when he lost them (at least it seemed to be the case with all the Swedish units that I just unleashed). [NOTE: I just checked this via several autosaves and it looks as there may be some slight attrition as some of the units lost strength from when they were POWs the previous turn, but this could also be due to readiness or supply issues for Sweden.]
There's no national morale penalty for having lots of your own boys held in POW status for YEARS at a time.
When the troops are released, they seem to be readily available by the county of origin for campaigns against a different enemy. Meaning, those 250,000 Swedes immediately went after a (previously) home province of Sweden that had been lost to Spain in an earlier war.
I fear that once I do finally end my war with Britain, after I take out several more of their armies on the continent, that Britain will be able to use those troops immediately to defend against my later (after the term of enforced peace expires) attacks upon their protectorates and provinces.
QUESTION: Does the country of origin pay any upkeep costs for any unit's that are now POW's of another country? Example, I've 300,000 British troops as POWs, does Britain pay any financial amount?
In my view, POW's should cost a political price to the country of origin. They should be a burden on the capturing country, but not the same level of burden as troops normally would cost. Also, released POWs should not become readily available for combat operations.
What I propose, for a future patch or for the sequel (although I would prefer to see it in a future patch) are the following:
1) Country of origin pays a political cost for having lost it's troops and general's as POWs.
I propose:
A) -1 NML per division as POW
B) -1 per level of general as POW
This means if I have lost 20 divisions of my army as POWs, then I'm losing 20NML a turn because of a poorly prosecuted war. If I lose a general, the populous would hear about it in the newspapers, talk about it and generally aggitate over it. Very popular generals (Wellington) who are languishing in captivity wouldn't be great news for the government, regardless of who's government.
2) Released POWs lose random number of troops to attrition immediately upon release. [I can't tell for sure of this is already done or not, but if it is done, then the losses aren't significant enough in my opinion]
a) Each division should lose, randomly, .1 to .9 strength factors. If this takes the unit below 1000 men and thus cause it to disband, then fine.
3) Released POWs should suffer an immediate morale loss.
a) - 2.00 morale per division which becomes their new "permanent" morale.
b) Generals should have a random chance of "retiring" which results in them becoming a KIA, for all intents and purposes.
4) Released POWs should have an economic cost associated with their return and rearming.
a) I'd suggest a cost of 20% of the unit's construction costs in all goods and money charged to the country of origin immediately upon release. Costs of goods not covered by supplies on hand would be charged against money at 150% increase (2 iron would become 3 money).
5) POWs should have a cost associated with them charged to the owning country.
a) Each POW division "owned" by the capturing country should have a food cost of 2 charged to same. [example, I have 10 divisions of POWs sitting in my capital, I then have to pay 20 food to feed them.]
6) POWs should be able to be "released" and not disbanded, but they should have the option to be released instead of not having that option available at all.
a) Instead of "Disband" the player can "Release" the POWs which would then be subject to my recommendations in #2, #3, and #4 above.
This would allow the capturing player to free up food requirements if he is short on food, but at the same time the capturing player will reduce the political costs the country of origin would be paying each turn. This gives the capturing player a choice between feeding POWs and causing a NML loss to his enemy, or freeing up his food, but not hurting the enemy's NML as much.
I recommend #2, #3, and #4 in the manner I mention as it is my feeling that this would be easier to do, programming wise, than most any other possible solution. Yes, I do mean solution as I see this whole issue as being a problem.
The problem being that a nation, such as Britain (being an extreme example) could fight me, as Prussia, continuously for 5, 10, 15, or even 20 years without ever being forced to come to terms, even if their war with me was a LOSING war.
If I had 1,000,000 British troops as POWs, they wouldn't be any closer to coming to terms than if I had 10,000, or 300,000 as POWs. They would have to absorb their loses by being on the strategic defensive for a while, but they can afford to do so, usually, due to their fleet keeping an invader at bay. This just doesn't work for me in terms of the real political costs associated with pursuing a losing war. Yes, this is a game, and yes it has to make certain abstractions, but in this instance, I am not happy with it against the AI and I would absolutely hate it in a multiplayer game.
[In my game, Britain is rumored to have over 850,000 troops. I don't know if this includes the 300,000 of theirs I have as POWs or not, but they do have some big stacks that I can see and even more stacks that I can't see]
Anyhow, I know this has been wordy, and I hope you have survived reading it. I _am_ having fun playing, but I would like to see this issue addressed in some manner.
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My current game and POW's - 
, I hope that you invite me someday read some good book and 
. My poor library is more or less of 20 volumes 
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