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RE: KB obliterates convoy!

 
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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> War In The Pacific - Struggle Against Japan 1941 - 1945 >> After Action Reports >> RE: KB obliterates convoy! Page: <<   < prev  54 55 [56] 57 58   next >   >>
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RE: KB obliterates convoy! - 1/3/2006 1:13:43 AM   
Cpt Sherwood

 

Posts: 837
Joined: 12/1/2005
From: A Very Nice Place in the USA
Status: offline 		More broken things. Does anyone know if they are going to fix this?

(in reply to kkoovvoo)
Post #: 1651
RE: KB obliterates convoy! - 1/3/2006 1:16:19 AM   
AmiralLaurent

 

Posts: 3351
Joined: 3/11/2003
From: Near Paris, France
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Cpt Sherwood

The problem is that Andy Mac will get all the Navy pilots he needs and they will enter with an experience of 75. I think he gets 144 Hellcats a month, just less than 5 per day. So losing 50 is about 11 days worth. He will return and soon with a full load of Hellcats and experienced pilots.


Don't think the experience is 75 in 1943 but you're basically right. If PzB let the US carriers retire now they will come back in 2 weeks as new, so his only chance is to hit now and hope the sacrifice of 500 AC in the last 3 days had been enough to left US CAP tired and reduced. The only mean to cripple the US death star (before it is operationnal) is to sink CV, not to kill AC or pilots.

(in reply to Cpt Sherwood)
Post #: 1652
RE: KB obliterates convoy! - 1/3/2006 1:16:45 AM   
Honda


Posts: 953
Joined: 5/5/2004
From: Karlovac, Croatia
Status: offline 		...much more then equal.
Hey PzB, any chance of this turn arriving to us soon? I shoul be off to bed but if the report should come soon...I might be persuaded to postone that trip for a while :)

_____________________________


AAR of my game vs Raver on my clan forum in croatian language (despite the language differences, no Ravers allowed)

(in reply to kkoovvoo)
Post #: 1653
RE: KB obliterates convoy! - 1/3/2006 1:19:33 AM   
kkoovvoo

 

Posts: 253
Joined: 10/1/2004
From: Slovakia
Status: offline 		I dont remember they ever tried to fix this. And the problem is known for a long time.

It is not considered to be urgent (and unfortunately there still are much worse issues).

PzB, his convoys are unloading at Kavieng now or did he retire them?

(in reply to Cpt Sherwood)
Post #: 1654
RE: KB obliterates convoy! - 1/3/2006 1:22:07 AM   
PzB74


Posts: 5076
Joined: 10/3/2000
From: No(r)way
Status: offline 		Seems like his convoys went back towards SagSag as well..if you hang on I'll get another screenie up.


_____________________________



"The problem in defense is how far you can go without destroying from within what you are trying to defend from without"
- Dwight D. Eisenhower

(in reply to kkoovvoo)
Post #: 1655
RE: KB obliterates convoy! - 1/3/2006 1:33:53 AM   
PzB74


Posts: 5076
Joined: 10/3/2000
From: No(r)way
Status: offline 		I may be crazy, but a desperate situation requires desperate measures!
So we're giving it one last try:

I've assembled a surface combat group including 3 heavy and 2 light cruiers + 10 destroyers.
They will steam straight into SagSag at flank speed. Perhaps Andy will keep his cv's around and
we can deliver a long lance attack? Perhaps we can force the enemy carriers to retreat out of the hex?

The KB is moving to the hex between Emirau and the Admiralities: 4 hexes away from SagSag. If Andy
stay in the hex his CAP will be reduced and if my surface groups disperse his TFs we may still win the
day

There are still several hundred land based bombers left in the area, I hope they will fly in together with
a potential KB strike. It's numbers more than anything else that is important to slip through the death CAP.
Too bad the poor survivors will have to face death FLAK afterwards




Attachment (1)

_____________________________



"The problem in defense is how far you can go without destroying from within what you are trying to defend from without"
- Dwight D. Eisenhower

(in reply to PzB74)
Post #: 1656
RE: KB obliterates convoy! - 1/3/2006 1:39:47 AM   
Honda


Posts: 953
Joined: 5/5/2004
From: Karlovac, Croatia
Status: offline 		Thanks and good night

_____________________________


AAR of my game vs Raver on my clan forum in croatian language (despite the language differences, no Ravers allowed)

(in reply to PzB74)
Post #: 1657
RE: KB obliterates convoy! - 1/3/2006 1:47:08 AM   
kkoovvoo

 

Posts: 253
Joined: 10/1/2004
From: Slovakia
Status: offline 		I think you wont get many chances to hit his CVs with surface vessels in the future. You did right when you took this chance. Unfortunately you cant assign best commander when at see

(in reply to Honda)
Post #: 1658
RE: KB obliterates convoy! - 1/3/2006 1:47:44 AM   
Cpt Sherwood

 

Posts: 837
Joined: 12/1/2005
From: A Very Nice Place in the USA
Status: offline 		The manual does say USN pilot experience is 75( that would be +/- 10 ). It is interesting that after all thay you have done he can still pose a large problem in late 1943. 1944 will be very interesting.

(in reply to Honda)
Post #: 1659
Great air battles over the Solomons! - 1/3/2006 4:18:17 AM   
PzB74


Posts: 5076
Joined: 10/3/2000
From: No(r)way
Status: offline 		Well, what can I say...not everything went as expected!
Firstly the surface combat raid against Sag Sag was rather successful! We got 2 cruisers
and several destroyers + some transports. The convoy was so big that several unseen ships were hit!?

Andy had unloaded all ac of his carriers to Sag Sag - most dangerous! As the carriers steamed south
towards Gili Gili we scored a torpedo hit on a British carrier. That's the positives.

On the negative side; the KB didn't launch any strikes? Non of the four Carrier Division
sent of a single strike against the defenseless convoy that was forced out of SagSag.
Of the 140 Betties on the land bases only 20 or so went after Andys defenseless carriers. Aaah, soo close!

The strikes launched against the retreating warship group and KB were vicious. Enemy bombers streamed from 6-8
bases..I've never seen so many clear weather hexes in a rainy turn before About all of the 350 fighters
above the KB were shot down Just crazy..In all 379 enemy and 371 Jap ac were destroyed!

It was the Escort Carrier Division that got hit worst: 1 cv - the Junyo, 3 cvls and 1 cve were hit. The light carriers
Chitose and Shoho are most likely lost together with 1 ca, 1 cl and 2 destroyers

We're heading home for some serious R&R! I can immediately replace ca 200 of the lost Zekes with experienced crews.
All the KBs bomber units are still intact. Sent 72 trained Tojos and 36 Oscars to Truk to reinforce the defenses there.

I think it was a good attempt even though Andy will be more pleased with the results. Losses were bad, but
we still got all of our fleet carriers intact and in a day or two the KB will be ready for operations again.
For the next 2-3 months we will have to carry out mostly defensive operations while ships are repaired and air
crews retrained.

AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 09/16/43

Surface Combat

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Time Surface Combat, near Sag Sag at 57,88

Japanese Ships
CA Takao
CA Atago
CA Ashigara
CL Isuzu
CL Yura
CL Tama
DD Shimakaze
DD Onami
DD Shiranuhi
DD Arashi
DD Oshio
DD Michishio
DD Natsugumo
DD Isonami
DD Asakaze

Allied Ships
PT PT-374, Shell hits 9, and is sunk
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Time Surface Combat, near Sag Sag at 57,88

Japanese Ships
CA Takao
CA Atago
CA Ashigara
CL Isuzu
CL Yura
CL Tama
DD Shimakaze
DD Onami
DD Shiranuhi
DD Arashi
DD Oshio
DD Michishio
DD Natsugumo
DD Isonami
DD Asakaze

Allied Ships
TK Empire Jet, Shell hits 18, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Time Surface Combat, near Sag Sag at 57,88

Japanese Ships
CA Takao
CA Atago
CA Ashigara
CL Isuzu
CL Yura
CL Tama
DD Shimakaze
DD Onami
DD Shiranuhi
DD Arashi
DD Oshio
DD Michishio
DD Natsugumo
DD Isonami
DD Asakaze

Allied Ships
MSW Strive, Shell hits 14, and is sunk
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Time Surface Combat, near Sag Sag at 57,88

Allied aircraft
no flights

Allied aircraft losses
SOC-3 Seagull: 5 destroyed

Japanese Ships
CA Takao
CA Atago, Shell hits 5
CA Ashigara, Shell hits 14, on fire
CL Isuzu, Shell hits 2
CL Yura
CL Tama
DD Shimakaze, Shell hits 2
DD Onami
DD Shiranuhi, Shell hits 2
DD Arashi, Shell hits 1, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
DD Oshio, Shell hits 9, on fire, heavy damage
DD Michishio
DD Natsugumo, Shell hits 2, on fire
DD Isonami, Shell hits 2, on fire
DD Asakaze

Allied Ships
CA Quincy, Shell hits 14, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
CL Hobart, Shell hits 53, on fire, heavy damage
DD Monssen, Shell hits 1, Torpedo hits 1, on fire
DD Aaron Ward, Shell hits 17, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
DD Woodworth, Shell hits 1
DD Bancroft, Shell hits 3
DD O'Brien, Shell hits 10, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
DD Tucker, Shell hits 29, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
DD Selfridge, Shell hits 7, Torpedo hits 3, and is sunk
DD Arunta, Shell hits 3
DD Isaac Sweers, Shell hits 2
MSW Kalgoorlie
MSW Freemantle, Shell hits 2
MSW Gladstone, Shell hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
MSW Horsham, Shell hits 7, Torpedo hits 3, and is sunk
MSW Kapunda
MSW Tern
SC SC-637
AP George F. Elliot
AP William Ward Burrows
AP Wayne
AP Orungal
AK Cassiopeia
AK Shaula
AK Propus
AK Seginus
AK Indus, Shell hits 4, on fire
AK Alamosa
AK Bullock
AK Charlevoix
AK Chicot
AK Etamin
AK Deimos
LST LST-16
LST LST-18
LST LST-19
LST LST-20
LCI LCI-22
LCI LCI-75
LCT LCT-61
LCT LCT-65
LCT LCT-130
LCT LCT-136
LCT LCT-137
LCT LCT-138
LCT LCT-139, Shell hits 7, and is sunk
AK Nathaniel Bowditch, and is sunk
LCT LCT-150, Shell hits 1, on fire, heavy damage

Allied ground losses:
21 casualties reported
Vehicles lost 1
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Time Surface Combat, near Sag Sag at 57,88

Japanese Ships
CA Takao
CA Atago
CA Ashigara, on fire
CL Isuzu
CL Yura
CL Tama
DD Shimakaze
DD Onami, Shell hits 1
DD Shiranuhi
DD Arashi, Shell hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
DD Oshio, on fire, heavy damage
DD Michishio
DD Natsugumo, on fire
DD Isonami, on fire
DD Asakaze

Allied Ships
PT PT-167, Shell hits 121, and is sunk
PT PT-172
PT PT-177
PT PT-235, Shell hits 13, and is sunk
PT PT-237
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Time Surface Combat, near Sag Sag at 57,88

Japanese Ships
CA Takao
CA Atago, Shell hits 6
CA Ashigara, on fire
CL Isuzu
CL Yura
CL Tama
DD Shimakaze
DD Onami, Shell hits 2
DD Shiranuhi, on fire
DD Arashi, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
DD Oshio, on fire, heavy damage
DD Michishio
DD Natsugumo, on fire
DD Isonami, on fire
DD Asakaze

Allied Ships
PT PT-320
PT PT-321
PT PT-322
PT PT-323
PT PT-324
PT PT-325
PT PT-326
PT PT-327, Shell hits 4, and is sunk
PT PT-328, Shell hits 3, and is sunk
PT PT-329, Shell hits 9, and is sunk
PT PT-330
PT PT-331, Shell hits 1
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Time Surface Combat, near Sag Sag at 57,88

Japanese Ships
CA Takao
CA Atago
CA Ashigara, on fire
CL Isuzu
CL Yura
CL Tama
DD Shimakaze
DD Onami, Shell hits 1
DD Shiranuhi, Shell hits 5, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
DD Oshio, Shell hits 6, on fire, heavy damage
DD Michishio
DD Natsugumo, on fire
DD Isonami, on fire
DD Asakaze

Allied Ships
PT PT-106
PT PT-109
PT PT-337
PT PT-338
PT PT-341
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sub/ASW Attacks

The Crevalle is back..and she's playing with our ASW group again. I'll get her one fine day!

Sub attack at 44,44

Japanese Ships
DD Kari, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage *sinks*
PC Ch 30
PC Ch 9
PC Takuna Maru #7
PG Yoshida Maru
MSW Wa 7
DD Asagao

Allied Ships
SS Crevalle
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Air Combat

The Sallys went back to Kavieng with good results..
Day Air attack on 3rd USMC Division, at 61,86

Japanese aircraft
Ki-43-IIa Oscar x 6
Ki-21 Sally x 70
Ki-46-III Dinah x 1

Allied aircraft
P-38G Lightning x 6

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-21 Sally: 2 destroyed, 1 damaged

Allied ground losses:
88 casualties reported
Guns lost 2
Vehicles lost 1
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Americal USA/B Division, at 61,86

Japanese aircraft
Ki-43-IIa Oscar x 2
Ki-21 Sally x 34
Ki-46-III Dinah x 1

Allied aircraft
P-38G Lightning x 6

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-43-IIa Oscar: 1 destroyed

Allied ground losses:
101 casualties reported
Guns lost 2
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Let the slaughter begin...almost 800 ac shot down in one day!

Day Air attack on TF at 59,84

Japanese aircraft
A6M2-N Rufe x 8
A6M2 Zero x 53
A6M5 Zeke x 312

Allied aircraft
P-38G Lightning x 32
B-25J Mitchell x 18
B-17E Fortress x 9
B-24D Liberator x 13

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 2 destroyed, 2 damaged
A6M5 Zeke: 2 destroyed, 4 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
P-38G Lightning: 14 destroyed, 4 damaged
B-25J Mitchell: 9 destroyed
B-17E Fortress: 8 destroyed
B-24D Liberator: 9 destroyed
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 59,85

Allied aircraft
F6F Hellcat x 3
SBD Dauntless x 59
Beaufort V-IX x 13

Allied aircraft losses
SBD Dauntless: 2 damaged
Beaufort V-IX: 4 damaged

Japanese Ships
CA Ashigara, Bomb hits 16, Torpedo hits 4, on fire, heavy damage - amazing, still afloat! 80 flood
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 59,84

Japanese aircraft
A6M2-N Rufe x 8
A6M2 Zero x 51
A6M5 Zeke x 310

Allied aircraft
Beaufighter Mk 21 x 14
P-47C Thunderbolt x 29
P-47D Thunderbolt x 4
B-25J Mitchell x 27

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2-N Rufe: 2 destroyed, 1 damaged
A6M2 Zero: 14 destroyed, 1 damaged
A6M5 Zeke: 54 destroyed, 3 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
Beaufighter Mk 21: 14 destroyed
P-47C Thunderbolt: 27 destroyed
P-47D Thunderbolt: 4 destroyed
B-25J Mitchell: 10 destroyed, 7 damaged
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF, near Emirau Island at 60,84 - our surface group! Too bad she didn't hide
with the KB 1 hex to the left. Impossible to controll withdrawal movements properly.

Allied aircraft
TBF Avenger x 3
Beaufort V-IX x 9
B-25J Mitchell x 21

Allied aircraft losses
Beaufort V-IX: 1 damaged
B-25J Mitchell: 17 damaged

Japanese Ships
CL Isuzu, Bomb hits 1, on fire
DD Onami
CA Takao, Shell hits 4, Bomb hits 1
CA Atago, Shell hits 4
DD Natsugumo, Shell hits 4, on fire
CL Yura, Shell hits 4, Bomb hits 1
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF, near Emirau Island at 60,84

Allied aircraft
B-25J Mitchell x 17

Allied aircraft losses
B-25J Mitchell: 12 damaged

Japanese Ships
CL Isuzu, Shell hits 4, Bomb hits 1, on fire
CA Takao, Shell hits 16, Bomb hits 2, on fire
CL Tama, Shell hits 4
CL Yura, Shell hits 8, Bomb hits 3, on fire, heavy damage

Aircraft Attacking: - skip bombing attacks!
4 x B-25J Mitchell attacking at 100 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF, near Emirau Island at 60,84

Allied aircraft
B-17E Fortress x 9
B-24D Liberator x 11

Allied aircraft losses
B-24D Liberator: 1 damaged

Japanese Ships
CA Takao, on fire
CL Yura, Bomb hits 5, on fire, heavy damage
CA Atago, Bomb hits 1
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 59,84

Japanese aircraft
A6M2-N Rufe x 6
A6M2 Zero x 37
A6M5 Zeke x 256

Allied aircraft
Boomerang II x 6
Kittyhawk III x 20
P-40N Warhawk x 29
P-38G Lightning x 48
B-17E Fortress x 61

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2-N Rufe: 5 destroyed
A6M2 Zero: 16 destroyed, 1 damaged
A6M5 Zeke: 39 destroyed, 14 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
Boomerang II: 6 destroyed
Kittyhawk III: 20 destroyed
P-40N Warhawk: 29 destroyed
P-38G Lightning: 46 destroyed
B-17E Fortress: 10 destroyed, 41 damaged

Japanese Ships
CV Shokaku
CV Zuikaku, Bomb hits 2 - no damagr
BB Haruna
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Day Air attack on TF at 59,84

Japanese aircraft
A6M2-N Rufe x 1
A6M2 Zero x 21
A6M5 Zeke x 217

Allied aircraft
F6F Hellcat x 20
F4U-1 Corsair x 58 - ouch!
Avenger II x 5
Kittyhawk III x 10
Beaufighter Mk 21 x 6
P-40N Warhawk x 26
P-38J Lightning x 10
A-20G Havoc x 15

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2-N Rufe: 1 destroyed
A6M2 Zero: 8 destroyed
A6M5 Zeke: 122 destroyed - ouch ouch!

Allied aircraft losses
F6F Hellcat: 10 destroyed
F4U-1 Corsair: 30 destroyed - at least we got some of the pests!
Avenger II: 3 destroyed
Kittyhawk III: 7 destroyed
Beaufighter Mk 21: 5 destroyed
P-40N Warhawk: 16 destroyed
P-38J Lightning: 8 destroyed
A-20G Havoc: 1 destroyed, 2 damaged

Japanese Ships
CVL Zuiho, Torpedo hits 1, on fire
CVL Shoho
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 59,84

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 13
A6M5 Zeke x 95

Allied aircraft
Beaufighter Mk 21 x 7

No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
Beaufighter Mk 21: 5 destroyed
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 56,90

Japanese aircraft
G4M1 Betty x 3

Japanese aircraft losses
G4M1 Betty: 2 damaged

Allied Ships
AK Venus

Aircraft Attacking:
3 x G4M1 Betty launching torpedoes at 200 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 56,87 - a strike on the defenseless convoy from the Admiralities.

Japanese aircraft
D3A Val x 27
G4M1 Betty x 6
G4M2 Betty x 20

Japanese aircraft losses
D3A Val: 3 damaged
G4M2 Betty: 3 damaged

Allied Ships
CL Hobart, Bomb hits 2, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
AK Shinkuang
DD Bancroft, Bomb hits 4, on fire, heavy damage
LCT LCT-61, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
LCT LCT-159, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
AK San Anselmo
LCT LCT-130, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
MSW Freemantle, Bomb hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
AK Walter Luckenbach
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 59,84

Japanese aircraft
A6M2-N Rufe x 1
A6M2 Zero x 12
A6M5 Zeke x 83

Allied aircraft
F6F Hellcat x 14
F4U-1 Corsair x 29
Avenger II x 4
Kittyhawk III x 3
Beaufighter Mk 21 x 3
Beaufort V-IX x 3
P-40N Warhawk x 14

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 9 destroyed
A6M5 Zeke: 43 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
F6F Hellcat: 3 destroyed, 3 damaged
F4U-1 Corsair: 11 destroyed, 5 damaged
Avenger II: 2 destroyed
Kittyhawk III: 3 destroyed
Beaufighter Mk 21: 2 destroyed
Beaufort V-IX: 1 destroyed, 1 damaged
P-40N Warhawk: 7 destroyed

Japanese Ships
BB Hyuga
CVE Taiyo
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 59,84

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 1
A6M5 Zeke x 12

Allied aircraft
Boomerang II x 2
Kittyhawk III x 2
Beaufighter Mk 21 x 5
P-40N Warhawk x 4
P-38G Lightning x 5
P-47C Thunderbolt x 7
B-17E Fortress x 13

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M5 Zeke: 11 destroyed
A6M2-N Rufe: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
Boomerang II: 1 destroyed
Kittyhawk III: 1 destroyed
Beaufighter Mk 21: 1 destroyed, 1 damaged
P-40N Warhawk: 2 destroyed
P-47C Thunderbolt: 1 destroyed
B-17E Fortress: 8 damaged

Japanese Ships
CVE Kaiyo, Bomb hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
BB Musashi
BB Ise, Bomb hits 1
BB Mutsu
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 59,84

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 1
A6M5 Zeke x 8

Allied aircraft
Beaufighter Mk 21 x 3
P-40N Warhawk x 18
P-38G Lightning x 20
B-25J Mitchell x 27
B-17E Fortress x 6
B-24D Liberator x 18

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 1 destroyed
A6M5 Zeke: 16 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
P-40N Warhawk: 5 destroyed, 5 damaged
P-38G Lightning: 4 destroyed, 2 damaged
B-25J Mitchell: 4 damaged
B-17E Fortress: 4 damaged
B-24D Liberator: 5 damaged

Japanese Ships
CVE Kaiyo, on fire, heavy damage
CVE Shinyo, Bomb hits 2, on fire
CVE Hosho
BB Fuso
CVE Unyo
BB Yamashiro
BB Mutsu
BB Musashi
BB Nagato
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 58,88
Allied aircraft
Beaufighter Mk 21 x 38

No Allied losses

Japanese Ships
DD Oshio, Bomb hits 5, on fire, heavy damage
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 59,84 - this was the most destructive raid. CAP depleted and
40 SBDs arrive!

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 2
A6M5 Zeke x 13

Allied aircraft
F6F Hellcat x 2
SBD Dauntless x 41
TBF Avenger x 3
Avenger II x 2
Beaufort V-IX x 10
A-20G Havoc x 7
B-25J Mitchell x 5

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M5 Zeke: 2 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
SBD Dauntless: 1 destroyed, 8 damaged
TBF Avenger: 2 damaged
Avenger II: 1 destroyed
Beaufort V-IX: 3 damaged
A-20G Havoc: 1 damaged
B-25J Mitchell: 5 damaged

Japanese Ships
CVL Shoho, Shell hits 4, Bomb hits 1, on fire
DD Amagiri, Shell hits 8, Bomb hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
CVL Chitose, Bomb hits 6, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
CVL Zuiho, Bomb hits 4, on fire
BB Hiei, Bomb hits 2, Torpedo hits 1
CV Junyo, Bomb hits 1
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 59,84 - the heavies were then free of charge...

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 1
A6M5 Zeke x 3

Allied aircraft
B-17E Fortress x 6
B-24D Liberator x 14

No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
B-24D Liberator: 2 damaged

Japanese Ships
CVL Shoho, Bomb hits 2, on fire
CVL Zuiho, Bomb hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
CVL Chitose, Bomb hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
CV Junyo, Bomb hits 4, on fire, heavy damage
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 59,84

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 1
A6M5 Zeke x 2

Allied aircraft
P-40N Warhawk x 3
B-25J Mitchell x 7
B-17E Fortress x 18
B-24D Liberator x 34

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M5 Zeke: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
P-40N Warhawk: 1 destroyed
B-25J Mitchell: 1 damaged
B-24D Liberator: 13 damaged

Japanese Ships
CV Junyo, Bomb hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
DD Hayate
CVL Shoho, Shell hits 4, Bomb hits 9, on fire, heavy damage
DD Wakazuki, Bomb hits 1, on fire
BB Hiei, Bomb hits 3, on fire
DD Hatsukaze, Bomb hits 1, on fire
DD Amagiri, on fire, heavy damage
CVL Zuiho, Bomb hits 4, on fire, heavy damage
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF, near Goodenough island at 56,93

Japanese aircraft
G4M2 Betty x 3

Japanese aircraft losses
G4M2 Betty: 3 damaged

Allied Ships
CV Formidable, Torpedo hits 1 - ah, the HMS Indestructible

Aircraft Attacking:
3 x G4M2 Betty launching torpedoes at 200 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF, near Goodenough island at 56,93 - day of lost opportunities....

Japanese aircraft
G4M1 Betty x 3

Japanese aircraft losses
G4M1 Betty: 3 destroyed

Allied Ships
CV Bunker Hill
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF, near Goodenough island at 56,93

Japanese aircraft
G4M1 Betty x 8

Japanese aircraft losses
G4M1 Betty: 4 destroyed

Allied Ships - NO CAP!
CV Intrepid
CV Essex

Aircraft Attacking:
1 x G4M1 Betty launching torpedoes at 200 feet
3 x G4M1 Betty launching torpedoes at 200 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 60,89

Japanese aircraft
G4M2 Betty x 4

Japanese aircraft losses
G4M2 Betty: 1 damaged

Allied Ships
LCT LCT-479

Aircraft Attacking:
4 x G4M2 Betty launching torpedoes at 200 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground Combat

Ground combat at Majuro

Allied Deliberate attack

Attacking force 6319 troops, 67 guns, 0 vehicles

Defending force 2757 troops, 0 guns, 0 vehicles

Allied assault odds: 4 to 1

Japanese ground losses:
65 casualties reported

Allied ground losses:
93 casualties reported
Guns lost 6
--------------------------------------------------------

Air Losses

Must admit that I expected bad weather to cover either the KB or SagSag in one of the two air phases today!
340 Zeros/Zekes to 270 Corsairs/Hellcats/T-bolts/P-38s/Kittihawks and bombers. What carnage...Hopefully Andy
will think this is enough to knock us out cold!




Attachment (1)

_____________________________



"The problem in defense is how far you can go without destroying from within what you are trying to defend from without"
- Dwight D. Eisenhower

(in reply to Cpt Sherwood)
Post #: 1660
RE: Great air battles over the Solomons! - 1/3/2006 9:34:21 AM   
kkoovvoo

 

Posts: 253
Joined: 10/1/2004
From: Slovakia
Status: offline 		20 liberators scoring 11 hits on your CVs... It seems you did exactly what he wanted.


But you achieved really good fighters loss ratio - 5 Japs for 4 Allied in 09/43 is awesome.


Btw, will you replace your lost zekes by disbanding landbased zekes into them or will you train inexperienced crews?

(in reply to PzB74)
Post #: 1661
RE: Great air battles over the Solomons! - 1/3/2006 7:47:22 PM   
Rob Brennan UK


Posts: 3685
Joined: 8/24/2002
From: London UK
Status: offline 		WOW .. shame about the vulnerable CVE's and CVL's .. but thata a big bite out of the allied fighter strength. the corsair isnt indestructable after all .. i wonder how experienced geroges will cope with that beast ? i would expect them to be rather good imo.

real shame you missed the carriers ?? when was he thinking ? unloading the a/c and having no CAP ? very bizarre.

looks like you have stalled him here . kaviang looks solid and if your scaring off his Cv's it bodes well for a prolonged defensive fight.

facinating AAR as ever ..

_____________________________

sorry for the spelling . English is my main language , I just can't type . and i'm too lazy to edit :)

(in reply to kkoovvoo)
Post #: 1662
RE: Great air battles over the Solomons! - 1/3/2006 8:51:19 PM   
Cpt Sherwood

 

Posts: 837
Joined: 12/1/2005
From: A Very Nice Place in the USA
Status: offline 		Looking at how few F6Fs he lost, I would expect him to return and try to hit your CVs again. That is what I would probably do, time to attack, before you can transfer those aircraft from China.

(in reply to Rob Brennan UK)
Post #: 1663
RE: KB obliterates convoy! - 1/3/2006 8:59:02 PM   
Sneer


Posts: 2654
Joined: 10/29/2003
Status: offline 		awesome emotions

_____________________________


(in reply to Cpt Sherwood)
Post #: 1664
RE: KB obliterates convoy! - 1/3/2006 10:32:51 PM   
PzB74


Posts: 5076
Joined: 10/3/2000
From: No(r)way
Status: offline 		I got several Zeke Daitais that have finished training in China, including the one with 48 ac. 77 exp by now!
I'm simply replacing the standard carrier groups with other carrier capable groups until the mother group has been retrained.
If it had been possible to transfer pilots I would have done so but the game doesn't allow it.

The kill ratio was fairly good, but remember that they came to me this time. It's always favorable to engage the enemy as far from his
bases as possible. I've learned quite a bit from these engagements and this experience will be put to good use in the 1944 campaigns.

Andy said he had stood his carrier CAP down by mistake Could have cost him big time. The reason why not more Bettys went after them
was a range restriction. I didn't want my bombers to fly away to attack PT boats of Lunga A more flexible menu would have allowed them to
always attack high value ships like carriers. E.g attack all shipping within 6 hexes and all cl, ca, bb and cv's at any range.

If Andy comes after me he will meet a torrent of steel at Truk! Already got 200 fighters there and I sincerely doubt his few carriers will
assault my castle. Not yet, not yet

Got visitors, so todays turns is a bit delayed!
Thx for the input



_____________________________



"The problem in defense is how far you can go without destroying from within what you are trying to defend from without"
- Dwight D. Eisenhower

(in reply to Sneer)
Post #: 1665
RE: KB obliterates convoy! - 1/4/2006 2:23:02 AM   
PzB74


Posts: 5076
Joined: 10/3/2000
From: No(r)way
Status: offline 		Argh, almost finished the turn..then kaboom! ****e crashed
It still does so on occasion, saved it some way into the turn but no time to finish it tonight.
Here's the combat report though!

Andy sent his carriers back towards the Admiralities and finished 2 of the sinking light carriers.
(1 cve Kaiyo and 1 cvl Zuiho). The Junyo, Chitose Shoho were also hit hard but aren't sinking yet.
May be able to save one of the latter.

A nasty setback to my escort carrier division
No time to cry over spilt milk...

I've disbanded the KB into port and moved most strike ac ashore. At Truk there are currently:
300 fighters (104 trained, the rest semi trained)
250 dive bombers - all trained
131 torpedo bombers - all trained
123 Betties - all trained
170 Sallies - semi trained

Some 1000 ac in all: would be nice if Andy moved closer
Another 150 fighters will arrive tomorrow.

AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 09/17/43

Air Combat

Day Air attack on TF, near Mussau Island at 60,83

Allied aircraft
B-17E Fortress x 13

No Allied losses

Japanese Ships
CV Junyo, Bomb hits 10, on fire, heavy damage
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF, near Mussau Island at 60,83

Allied aircraft - few fighters here...
F6F Hellcat x 29
Corsair IV x 4
SBD Dauntless x 94
TBM Avenger x 79

Allied aircraft losses
SBD Dauntless: 1 destroyed
TBM Avenger: 1 damaged

Japanese Ships
CVL Zuiho, Bomb hits 5, Torpedo hits 3, on fire, heavy damage *sunk*
CVE Kaiyo, Bomb hits 2, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage *sunk*
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF, near Mussau Island at 60,83

Allied aircraft
B-25J Mitchell x 4

No Allied losses

Japanese Ships
CVL Shoho, Shell hits 8, Bomb hits 1, on fire, heavy damage

Aircraft Attacking:
4 x B-25J Mitchell attacking at 100 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF, near Mussau Island at 60,83

Allied aircraft
P-40N Warhawk x 5
B-25J Mitchell x 4

No Allied losses

Japanese Ships
DD Hayate, Bomb hits 1, on fire

Aircraft Attacking:
4 x B-25J Mitchell bombing at 10000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF, near Mussau Island at 60,83

Allied aircraft
A-20G Havoc x 6

No Allied losses

Japanese Ships
AK Batopaha Maru, Bomb hits 4, on fire, heavy damage
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF, near Emirau Island at 60,84

Allied aircraft
F6F Hellcat x 25
Corsair IV x 4
SBD Dauntless x 100
TBM Avenger x 54

No Allied losses

Japanese Ships
CVL Chitose, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

_____________________________



"The problem in defense is how far you can go without destroying from within what you are trying to defend from without"
- Dwight D. Eisenhower

(in reply to PzB74)
Post #: 1666
RE: KB obliterates convoy! - 1/4/2006 4:40:21 PM   
castor troy


Posts: 14330
Joined: 8/23/2004
From: Austria
Status: offline 		Again a far to accurate B17 attack!! 13 bombers scoring 10 hits on CV Junyo? Now Allied fanboys, how do you explain that? Oh yes, it was designed as an anti ship weapon also. I just wonder why those 4E monsters in reality didn´t hit a factory complex from a height of 10000 feet but 10 out of 13 bombers hit a CV from, I suppose, 6000 feet. And this thing was moving, probably not straight ahead and at full speed. In my games 4E bombers have the best hit rate of all bombers, bombing from 6000 feet....

4E bombers should not be allowed to do naval attacks!

(in reply to PzB74)
Post #: 1667
RE: KB obliterates convoy! - 1/4/2006 4:44:42 PM   
Cpt Sherwood

 

Posts: 837
Joined: 12/1/2005
From: A Very Nice Place in the USA
Status: offline 		Well, they should be allowed to but they really shouldn't be so effective. If an IJN player knows he doesn't have to worry about 4e bombers on Naval Attack then he can use that knowledge when in RL they did have to take them into account.

If I remember right there is a chance for each bomb to score a hit, so bombers with lots of bombs usually hit, they probably should have just had once chance to hit but then some chances that one bomber could hit with more than one bomb.

(in reply to castor troy)
Post #: 1668
RE: KB obliterates convoy! - 1/4/2006 5:07:14 PM   
pauk


Posts: 4162
Joined: 10/21/2001
From: Zagreb,Croatia
Status: offline 		Level bombers shouldn't be so effective, we all know that. The main problem here is bad design. Once when bombers crew pass 70, 75 exp they start hiting enemy ships. If they are over 80 exp they are deadly. Same goes for Japanese.

Of course, Allies are in more than favourable position there: 4E bombers have biger range then Sallys, bigger load, they are harder to shot down, have 2000 lb bombs, etc....

These hits are result of Allied fanboy club and great example what happens when issue is fixed one-sided, "in fragments". Allied fanboys screamed all around the forum for bigger bombs and they got them. OK, "historical argumentation" here and i have nothing against it. But I do have if other issues in air model aren't corrected fairly.



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(in reply to Cpt Sherwood)
Post #: 1669
RE: KB obliterates convoy! - 1/4/2006 6:54:12 PM   
castor troy


Posts: 14330
Joined: 8/23/2004
From: Austria
Status: offline 		Just two possibilities: let them on naval attack and see hit rates of 70%+ like in this example (very realistically and historical correct), or make up a house rule to not allow them to do naval attacks (what they "normally" didn´t do in RL). We all know that the 4E bombers weren´t that accurate. If they would have been those uber super flying weapons I wonder why still tac bombers and fighter bombers were built. Some strategists dreamt about that 4E bombers could win the war on their own. In real life the dreamt about it, but in WITP as it is now they´re able to sink and destroy everything within half a year if it´s in range. I´m just waiting for games to come into 43 to see dozens of 2000 lb bomb hits and the Allied fanboys screaming: "Give us 5000 lb bombs, they were available in real life!" And the 4E bombers became stronger and stronger with all the patches (this is what makes me wonder the most!!).

Just strange that there´s only the 250 kg bomb for naval attacks for the Japs and the 500 kg bomb even doesn´t exist. But I know an Allied player will tell me, that the Japs have 800 kg bombs - but just for port attack. Or, the Japs have torps. Well the Allied also have torps but they don´t need them because it´s far more comfortable to send in 150 B17, B24 on naval attack and get between 50 and 150 hits... I´m playing the Allied side too, with my 4Es not on naval attack. And guess what, the Allied side still wins...

I know the Japs were worried about 4E bombers hitting their ships, but mainly in port (which is obviously hard enough -> remember the Tirpitz??).

In my oppinion the best ship killers should be: dive bombers and torpedoe bombers followed by tac bombers and fighter bombers and at least and only as a temporary solution the 4E bombers.

Perhaps one of the experts can bring up a statistic how many hits 2 and 4E bombers achived from 6000 feet and above on fast moving warships. This should end all this blah blah if they were good or not. And perhaps the hit rate of 4E bombers from 6000 feet+ would be: 0,3 %. Just a guess!

(in reply to pauk)
Post #: 1670
RE: KB obliterates convoy! - 1/4/2006 7:22:18 PM   
HarryM

 

Posts: 66
Joined: 7/13/2004
Status: offline 		The Junyo was already heavily damaged. How fast was it moving?

(in reply to castor troy)
Post #: 1671
RE: KB obliterates convoy! - 1/4/2006 7:31:42 PM   
castor troy


Posts: 14330
Joined: 8/23/2004
From: Austria
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: HarryM

The Junyo was already heavily damaged. How fast was it moving?


You´re correct! Just checked: Junyo was hit by 6 bombs before. Probably 500lb bombs? But she was able to move, between 10 and 15 knots perhaps when under attack? But the 4E bombers also hit faster moving CVs also with a loopsided hitrate. I´ve lost a CVE against 4E bombers that moved 28 knots.

(in reply to HarryM)
Post #: 1672
RE: KB obliterates convoy! - 1/4/2006 8:40:55 PM   
PzB74


Posts: 5076
Joined: 10/3/2000
From: No(r)way
Status: offline 		The Junyo was heavily damaged - travelling at 11 knots or so!
No doubt heavies are formidable ship killers in this game, should be toned down by 50-60%.

My ships were mostly hurt/sunk by SBDs, so 4Es were not the cause of the ditch this time. I'm aware of how deadly
they are and is trying to take action accordingly. Things just doesn't always work out when the enemy outnumbers you in the
air - in both quality and quantity.

Will redouble my efforts to re-organize the fleet and prepare for the coming storms. Andy will no doubt feel vigorated by now, and
this will make him even more eager to advance quickly. I can't afford anymore offensives, but the Empire still got sharp teeth
The defensive chain running from Timor to the Home Islands is almost complete and the forward defenses will hold out as long as possible
to delay the Allied offensive.


_____________________________



"The problem in defense is how far you can go without destroying from within what you are trying to defend from without"
- Dwight D. Eisenhower

(in reply to castor troy)
Post #: 1673
RE: KB obliterates convoy! - 1/4/2006 9:10:06 PM   
Tom Hunter


Posts: 2194
Joined: 12/14/2004
Status: offline 		I agree completely that the heavy bombers hit far too often.

It is also my impression that medium bombers were used on shipping strikes much more often than heavies.

I recall that the bomber group that trained up to be very accurate (not possible in WitP) by bombing hulks off Australia and then murdered a Japanese convoy in the Bismark sea (also not really possible in WitP) was flying B25s.

Does anyone know what the actual hit -sinking rate was for experienced twin engine and 4 engine bomber groups?

(in reply to PzB74)
Post #: 1674
RE: KB obliterates convoy! - 1/4/2006 9:39:09 PM   
HarryM

 

Posts: 66
Joined: 7/13/2004
Status: offline 		Not a large sample of data but they were somewhat effective. The strafing and skip-bombing B-25s and A-20s were much more deadly.

http://www.afa.org/magazine/Aug1996/0896victory.asp


"On March 2, the vessels were again sighted heading from the Bismarck Sea toward the Vitiaz Strait. When a force of twenty-nine B-17s hit the convoy, a large merchant vessel was sunk, two others damaged, and a destroyer was set on fire. The Flying Fortresses were attacked by thirty Japanese fighters, three of which were shot down. Ten Allied bombers were riddled with holes, but all returned to their base at Port Moresby.

Later that day, the convoy consisted of six warships and ten merchant vessels. They were attacked by nine B-17 s that eliminated two merchantmen and damaged another. One intercepting fighter was shot down; again, all bombers returned safely."

So that is 38 sorties by B-17s. Results 4 sunk and 4 damaged.

(in reply to Tom Hunter)
Post #: 1675
RE: KB obliterates convoy! - 1/4/2006 11:17:13 PM   
castor troy


Posts: 14330
Joined: 8/23/2004
From: Austria
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: HarryM

Not a large sample of data but they were somewhat effective. The strafing and skip-bombing B-25s and A-20s were much more deadly.

http://www.afa.org/magazine/Aug1996/0896victory.asp


"On March 2, the vessels were again sighted heading from the Bismarck Sea toward the Vitiaz Strait. When a force of twenty-nine B-17s hit the convoy, a large merchant vessel was sunk, two others damaged, and a destroyer was set on fire. The Flying Fortresses were attacked by thirty Japanese fighters, three of which were shot down. Ten Allied bombers were riddled with holes, but all returned to their base at Port Moresby.

Later that day, the convoy consisted of six warships and ten merchant vessels. They were attacked by nine B-17 s that eliminated two merchantmen and damaged another. One intercepting fighter was shot down; again, all bombers returned safely."

So that is 38 sorties by B-17s. Results 4 sunk and 4 damaged.



The link doesn´t work for me. And they did that from 6000 feet??

(in reply to HarryM)
Post #: 1676
RE: KB obliterates convoy! - 1/4/2006 11:30:32 PM   
HarryM

 

Posts: 66
Joined: 7/13/2004
Status: offline 		It doesn't indicate the altitude, but I would assume it was medium, ~10000.

This is also interesting....

"Major Benn is credited by General Kenney with developing skip bombing into a fine art. He experimented with different bomb sizes, timed fuses, and approaches to targets. He led one skip-bombing raid with a half-dozen B-17s at low altitude and sent six enemy ships to the bottom. According to Kenney, "Skip bombing became the standard, sure way of destroying shipping, not only in Bill's bombardment squadron but throughout the Fifth Air Force.""

Skip-bombing with a B-17? Pretty ballsy manoever...

(in reply to castor troy)
Post #: 1677
RE: KB obliterates convoy! - 1/4/2006 11:35:00 PM   
mdiehl

 

Posts: 5998
Joined: 10/21/2000
Status: offline 		Junyo had already taken serious damage. Abstracted this could mean problems with steering control. Might be stuck going in a straight line for example. Under such circumstances a B-17 from 6K-12K feet might well hit with an entire Salvo a target that was moving 10 knots. The problem wasn't hitting a moving target. The problem was the amount of time a target could have to turn to evade a bomb salvo. If Junyo's stuck in Suzuki Samurai mode (it really does a good job going in a straight line), 10 bomb hits may not be very wierd at all.

_____________________________

Show me a fellow who rejects statistical analysis a priori and I'll show you a fellow who has no knowledge of statistics.

Didn't we have this conversation already?

(in reply to HarryM)
Post #: 1678
RE: KB obliterates convoy! - 1/4/2006 11:35:27 PM   
castor troy


Posts: 14330
Joined: 8/23/2004
From: Austria
Status: offline 		10000 ft??? This would be 3000m! Hitting a fast moving ship from 3000 m?? This is possible?

(in reply to HarryM)
Post #: 1679
RE: KB obliterates convoy! - 1/4/2006 11:44:51 PM   
HarryM

 

Posts: 66
Joined: 7/13/2004
Status: offline 		The article doesn't indicate the altitude, unfortunately. It could be lower. If the B-25s and A-20s were hitting from sea-level then maybe the AAA environment was not too bad, and they could have been lower than 10K.

(in reply to castor troy)
Post #: 1680
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