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RE: Flags for MWIF - 1/4/2006 3:44:58 AM

Shannon V. OKeets

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And as every one could have predicted, we have a tie so I have to make up my mind.

Just to confuse the issue, I have been working on taking all the different flags and trying them out in the game. I rewrote the code so it would take any size bitmap. I also changed it so the flag has an aspect ratio of 2:1 (the old was 8:7). Here is what Japan's flag looks like. The versions in Korea show that it is occupied territory. If I start with a rendering that is 2:1, the red will be a true circle and not an ellipse (does anyone have a bitmap of Japan's flag in 2:1?). Zoom level is 8.

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Steve

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Post #: 31

RE: Flags for MWIF - 1/4/2006 3:47:33 AM

Shannon V. OKeets

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The US and UK (Commonwealth).

Neither of these flags started as a 2:1 aspect ratio. They don't look too bad, but they could be improved if I start with a 2:1.

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Post #: 32

RE: Flags for MWIF - 1/4/2006 3:53:12 AM

Shannon V. OKeets

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The Communists. The Communist Chinese flag looks pretty good. The USSR one doesn't. Both of these started as 2:1, so it is really just a question of findnig a USSR one that isn't so dark. The hammer and sickle need to be brighter. This screen shot includes Mongolia which is shown as a USSR ally.

In an earlier post I miswrote - the half white flag indicates a friendly aligned country, not occupied territory.

I do not have a flag for Nationalist China - anyone? 2:1 aspect ratio is best.

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< Message edited by Shannon V. OKeets -- 1/4/2006 3:56:09 AM >

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Steve

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Post #: 33

RE: Flags for MWIF - 1/4/2006 3:59:10 AM

Shannon V. OKeets

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And what you have all been waiting for: France, Italy and Germany.

I took the Italian battle flag that Patrice provided, since the missing crown on the cross of the official flag wouldn't be visible anyway.

Czechoslovakia is aligned with Germany while Austria is simply part of Germany.

I'll do a couple more of these showing the Free Fench and Vichy France and some of the alternative German flags.

I might not get to that today though. I want to finish drawing the sea boxes - a higher priority.

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Post #: 34

RE: Flags for MWIF - 1/4/2006 4:42:47 AM

pak19652002

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Well, somebody predicted that the German cross would not be visible in the top stripe and he was right! Better outline the cross or put it in a circle or something.

Could you show us #2 just for kicks? I'm not changing my vote, but it is hard to tell it's a cross at this point.

Also, how about trying the Japanese flag with all the rays shooting out of the sun. I don't know the history, but we use that one in CB and I think it is really cool.

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Post #: 35

RE: Flags for MWIF - 1/4/2006 5:43:31 AM

Neilster

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Flag #2 for me. I've seen similar in other games and it looks good.

Cheers, Neilster

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Post #: 36

RE: Flags for MWIF - 1/4/2006 5:44:31 AM

Rorgg

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And I go back to my first choice: plain tricolor.

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Post #: 37

RE: Flags for MWIF - 1/4/2006 5:47:42 AM

Neilster

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Whoops, sorry. I missed the cut.

Cheers, Neilster

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Post #: 38

RE: Flags for MWIF - 1/4/2006 6:17:34 AM

scout1

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My vote would be 1 flag per country

Sorry, couldn't help myself

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Post #: 39

RE: Flags for MWIF - 1/4/2006 6:46:47 AM

Glen Felzien

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I really perfer the #1 flag but agree that their really ought to be a white circle background for the cross. Sorry but I do not have any flags at a 2:1 ratio. I'll search the net and see what I find.

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Post #: 40

RE: Flags for MWIF - 1/4/2006 9:07:47 AM

Froonp

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quote:

If I start with a rendering that is 2:1, the red will be a true circle and not an ellipse (does anyone have a bitmap of Japan's flag in 2:1?). Zoom level is 8.

It should be easy to have a 2:1 aspect Japanese flag. Just take the one you have, and cut the right & left sides into a graphic program until you are at 2:1. The background is just uniformely white it won't show.
Same for all flags who are not 2:1 at start. The German one seems like this for instance. Just cut the right & left sides into a graphic program until you are at 2:1.
For the UK you can't do that, it would show.
For the USA, just cut on the right side to achieve the 2:1 ratio.
For the Natinalist Chinese, here is one flag.

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Post #: 41

RE: Flags for MWIF - 1/4/2006 9:51:13 AM

Shannon V. OKeets

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Thanks.

I'll add post a screen shot of the Nationalist Chinese flag next time I do a set.

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Post #: 42

RE: Flags for MWIF - 1/4/2006 10:45:36 AM

Froonp

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quote:

I took the Italian battle flag that Patrice provided, since the missing crown on the cross of the official flag wouldn't be visible anyway.

It's not because I provided it, but I find it beautiful

quote:

Czechoslovakia is aligned with Germany while Austria is simply part of Germany.

For Germany, I think it should be trimmed to be 2:1 (by cutting the right & left parts of the picture before being scaled down) because it seems very slim compared to the others. The right part seems longer too.
For the cross, it's high part is not visible in the black of the flag, as Greyshaft predicted.
Anyway, I'm not quite pleased with this German Flag, it is simply not WWII German enough.

Maybe you should re open the votes by showing 3 screenshots using the alternate 3 proposals ?

(in reply to Shannon V. OKeets)

Post #: 43

RE: Flags for MWIF - 1/5/2006 8:03:36 AM

Shannon V. OKeets

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To get a 2:1 ratio of length to width, it is the top and/or bottom that would have to be trimmed.

Here are the other flags I have gathered for the major powers.

The official Commonwealth flag doesn't look too bad. it just doesn't have the punch that the Union Jack does.

Attachment (1)

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Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

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Post #: 44

RE: Flags for MWIF - 1/5/2006 8:07:41 AM

Shannon V. OKeets

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Here is Free France, the second 'winner' for Germany, and the offical Italian flag.

Note the change I made to the aligned flags. It is both a smaller intrusion and instead of an opaque white it is now translucent. I think it is an improvement.

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Steve

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Post #: 45

RE: Flags for MWIF - 1/5/2006 8:09:58 AM

Shannon V. OKeets

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The flag that everyone would really like to see included in the game for Germany and the Vichy France flag

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Steve

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Post #: 46

RE: Flags for MWIF - 1/5/2006 8:12:55 AM

Shannon V. OKeets

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The last in this series. To expedite things I am showing 2 German flags here. What I call the fancy flag and the cross in the circle. Obviously the cross in the circle is too badly distorted. Somewhere along the line I'll modify it so that it looks correct as a 2:1 image.

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Steve

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Post #: 47

RE: Flags for MWIF - 1/5/2006 10:12:46 AM

Davidt

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Im voting for the flag with the cross in the circle - obviously requiring less of a distortionin the 2:1 image.

As for the fancy flag i am tempted to quote Froonp about the lab test in danger of escaping the lab - please kill it quick! The fancy flag really doesnt convey any "3. reich" feeling (for me at least).

Very impressed with all the options you present before deciding :)

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Post #: 48

RE: Flags for MWIF - 1/5/2006 11:15:54 AM

tiikki

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For Germany my first choice would be plain tricolor, second is option number 2

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Post #: 49

RE: Flags for MWIF - 1/5/2006 12:03:45 PM

Froonp

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quote:

The official Commonwealth flag doesn't look too bad. it just doesn't have the punch that the Union Jack does.

You said it.
It looks like a corporate flag, not the mighty Commonwealth Empire's flag. Please, please put back the Union Jack !

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Post #: 50

RE: Flags for MWIF - 1/5/2006 12:05:17 PM

Froonp

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quote:

Note the change I made to the aligned flags. It is both a smaller intrusion and instead of an opaque white it is now translucent. I think it is an improvement.

Yes, it's better. Keep this

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Post #: 51

RE: Flags for MWIF - 1/5/2006 12:07:38 PM

Froonp

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quote:

Here is Free France, the second 'winner' for Germany, and the offical Italian flag.

Free France is neat.
This German flag is really the best to my eyes. It have a real IIIrd Reich flavor and no svastika. The red may be too dark though.

(in reply to Shannon V. OKeets)

Post #: 52

RE: Flags for MWIF - 1/5/2006 3:14:09 PM

Caranorn

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1) Do we have to use that 2/1 ratio for flags? To me it looks pretty awkward. Could you try 3/2 maybe?

2) Okay, now we have the "Reichskriegsflagge" (at least it looks that way, hard to tell at that size) too, while not WWII, it's also a prohibitted symbol in Germany as I mentionned before.

3) A compromise for Germany might be red flag with white circle and no cross whatsoever. That would be quite recognisable.

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Post #: 53

RE: Flags for MWIF - 1/5/2006 3:46:17 PM

Froonp

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quote:

3) A compromise for Germany might be red flag with white circle and no cross whatsoever. That would be quite recognisable.

Yes good idea.
Moreover, we just would have to add the svastika for those interested

(in reply to Caranorn)

Post #: 54

RE: Flags for MWIF - 1/5/2006 4:47:27 PM

Shannon V. OKeets

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Here is my conclusion on the flags. I'll revisit it in a month or 2 but for now I am putting it to bed and moving on to other things.

================
The Use of Flags in MWIF
(as of January 5, 2006)

MWIF uses flags for two primary purposes: to indicate which major power controls territory and to indicate which major power is on move. In both cases the bitmapped image of each flag, as it appears on the screen, is small, only 48 pixels wide by 24 pixels high in 24 bit color.

There are 238 named countries, territories, and geographical areas in MWIF and 128 of them have units. Potentially, flags for each of these could be included in the game. However, the purpose of MWIF is to enable players to play World in Flames, not be a device for displaying flags. So, there are only 9 different flags used in MWIF, one for each of the 9 major powers that can ultimately control territory as defined in World in Flames, Final Edition. These are the same 9 major powers that can potentially be on move. In no particular order they are:

1 - Nationalist China
2 - Communist China
3 - Japan
4 - USSR
5 - Germany
6 - France (France before Vichy, Free France, and Vichy France)
7 - Italy
8 - Commonwealth
9 - United States

As indicated above, there are 3 different flags used for France. Vichy France is never �on move�. Its units are controlled by either Germany or Italy depending on which of them declared a Vichy France. However, for game play purposes, it is important to indicate which hexes are Vichy France, so a different flag is shown to indicate hexes in Vichy France.

MWIF has a separate subdirectory just for bitmapped images of flags. The players can change which bitmapped image is used for each major power whenever they wish, as one of the standard game interface options. Most of the bitmapped images in the directory when MWIF ships are 256 pixels wide by 128 pixels high, 24 bit color, BMP files. These images are compressed automatically by the program to the 48 by 24 images shown on the screen.

Here is a list of the different flags in the directory. Where more than one is listed, the asterisk indicates the starting game default.

1 just 1 flag
2 just 1 flag
3 official Rising Sun flag of Japan and a �Sun Burst� flag (*)
4 just 1 flag
5 plain Red Cross in White Circle; modified official German flag with Iron Cross replacing the swastika; simplified modified official German flag, with the smaller Iron Cross removed (*); tricolor black, white, and red; tricolor black, gold, and red; official German flag of the late 19th century
6 just 1 of each
7 simple tricolor; official Italian flag of the period; official Italian battle flag of the period (*)
8 official Commonwealth flag, Union Jack (*)
9 official USA of the period

Players can add their own flags to this directory. Each added flag has to be a 24 bit, BMP file but it can be of any width and height. The program will automatically stretch and/or shrink them to 48 by 24 for display on the screen. Note that this can cause distortion to occur if the BMP images are not in a 2:1 ratio of width to height.

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Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

(in reply to Froonp)

Post #: 55

RE: Flags for MWIF - 1/5/2006 4:52:19 PM

Shannon V. OKeets

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Caranorn

1) Do we have to use that 2/1 ratio for flags? To me it looks pretty awkward. Could you try 3/2 maybe?

I'll think about this - but my knee jerk response is 'no'. One solution is to automate retention of the original aspect ratio by adding transparent pixels to the BMP image until a 2:1 is achieved. Then the rendering on the screen would be compressed to 48 by 24. I'll revisit this again in a couple of months. There is more important stuff to work on.

_____________________________

Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

(in reply to Caranorn)

Post #: 56

RE: Flags for MWIF - 1/5/2006 5:53:40 PM

Froonp

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quote:

6 - France (France before Vichy, Free France, and Vichy France)

Just a note here to say that writing "France before Vichy" is not completely correct.
First, there is France (in S/O39).
Then, the German arrive, and there is Vichy France and Free France.
Then, the Americans arrive, and there is no more Vichy France and no more Free France, and there is again France.

(in reply to Shannon V. OKeets)

Post #: 57

RE: Flags for MWIF - 1/5/2006 5:57:37 PM

Froonp

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quote:

MWIF has a separate subdirectory just for bitmapped images of flags.

I think it is a good way to deal with flags.

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Post #: 58

RE: Flags for MWIF - 1/5/2006 7:24:36 PM

Shannon V. OKeets

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Froonp

quote:

6 - France (France before Vichy, Free France, and Vichy France)

Just a note here to say that writing "France before Vichy" is not completely correct.
First, there is France (in S/O39).
Then, the German arrive, and there is Vichy France and Free France.
Then, the Americans arrive, and there is no more Vichy France and no more Free France, and there is again France.

Sorry. My mistake.

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Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

(in reply to Froonp)

Post #: 59

RE: Flags for MWIF - 1/6/2006 3:28:00 AM

Neilster

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IMHO the Union Jack is the most appropriate flag for the Commonwealth. It's difficult to express how "British" people (well the white people anyway) of the Commonwealth felt in those days. I'm Australian, and it was not uncommon in the 70s to still hear old folk talk of Empire! People would speak of the "Far East" when it was really the "Near North"!

The sunray flag for Japan would seem most appropriate but we must ensure that it has no political problems. The whole issue of personal preference and legalities might mean that a user selectable system is best. What if the game is only available for download? In that case, swastikas won't be able to be removed from a German/Austrian release without denying them to everybody else. I don't want my history revised.

Cheers, Neilster

(in reply to Shannon V. OKeets)

Post #: 60