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crews are changing if you change the AFV

 
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crews are changing if you change the AFV - 7/7/2000 3:13:00 AM   
warhead

 

Posts: 27
Joined: 6/30/2000
From: alabama
Status: offline 		I noticed after my 3rd cpn battle that if I change an AFV type without "fixing" it first, I get a new crew. After this battle I had about a dozen crews to "re-equip"...I prefer to upgrade "lost" armor rather than just fix it as I figure I have to spend points anyways, so I might as well upgrade. However, all my "upgrade from KIAs" resulted in a new crew for the new AFV despite the existence of a crew. I thought this had been fixed to where it was like in original SP series. I reloaded the game and choose to "fix all" first and then changed the tank and my previously stranded crews were "back in the saddle". So, do I have to fix an AFV first if I want to retain my crew? ..then change the AFV type? I know I can change unkilled AFVs and retain the crew..these questions are for those crews who have had their wheels shot out from under them.

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Post #: 1
- 7/7/2000 3:46:00 AM   
Charles22

 

Posts: 912
Joined: 5/17/2000
From: Dallas, Texas, USA
Status: offline 		Perhaps you are mistaken, as if I understand the game correctly, everytime you switch to another vehicle, you keep the same crew but their experience drops for the change. Also, the change should be more dramatic for the number of men that had to be added to reestablish a full crew.

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Post #: 2
- 7/7/2000 4:07:00 AM   
warhead

 

Posts: 27
Joined: 6/30/2000
From: alabama
Status: offline 		no..the tank gets demolished,the crew survives..end of battle....fix screen...if I change their destroyed tank rather than fixing it, I lose the crew..understand?..the tank died in battle but the crew survived..if I change the destroyed tank from say a PZ-IIc to a PZ-IVd without "fixing" it first...then the crew dies during the fix phase so to speak..this is not how it was originally..before I could change the tank type and the stranded crew gets a new tank type...e.g. "Fritz , too bad about your old beloved PZ-IIIh, but we are sending you a brand spanking new PZ-IIIg..try her out"..that is Fritz and crew lost their tank, but lived...and the quartermaster or whatever is supplying them with a new tank..see Fritz and the boys survived the battle and now they got new steel...albeit not a "steel panther".

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Backstage at the '76 Mr.Olympia: Serge Nubrut to Arnold "I look like I can take you"...Arnold "keep looking"

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Post #: 3
- 7/7/2000 4:11:00 AM   
warhead

 

Posts: 27
Joined: 6/30/2000
From: alabama
Status: offline 		I meant you lost your PZ-IIIg and we are sending you a new PZ-IIIH.

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Backstage at the '76 Mr.Olympia: Serge Nubrut to Arnold "I look like I can take you"...Arnold "keep looking"

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Post #: 4
- 7/7/2000 6:03:00 AM   
BA Evans

 

Posts: 250
Joined: 5/25/2000
From: USA
Status: offline 		Which version of the game are you using? 1.0 had a bug when a unit was destroyed but the crew lived. The current version of the game is 2.3 and this bug should be fixed. BA Evans

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Post #: 5
- 7/7/2000 6:22:00 AM   
Arralen


Posts: 827
Joined: 5/21/2000
Status: offline
quote:

Originally posted by warhead: no..the tank gets demolished,the crew survives..end of battle....fix screen...if I change their destroyed tank rather than fixing it, I lose the crew..understand?..the tank died in battle but the crew survived..if I change the destroyed tank from say a PZ-IIc to a PZ-IVd without "fixing" it first...then the crew dies during the fix phase so to speak..
What makes you think so? Does the unit leader change? Do you have "leftover" crews after fixing and upgrading (again - like in v1.0) ? If it's only the experience that drops dramatically - that's supposed to be this way because of the unfamiliar equipment (PzII vs. PzIV e.g.) Arralen

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Post #: 6
- 7/7/2000 6:30:00 AM   
warhead

 

Posts: 27
Joined: 6/30/2000
From: alabama
Status: offline 		2.3..patched correctly..I did start this cpn with 2.0. I might add that I don't mind this new M.O....I'll just "fix all" prior to deciding which crews get new toys...if I keep track of those losses which are total(tank and crew KIA), I'll change them beforehand since I'm destined to get a new crew anyhow. Or I could change those destroyed tanks with surviving crews with whom I'm unhappy, and therefore get a new crew. E.G. "Heinz, we appreciate your efforts in battle, but you have lost 3 tanks in as many days, we here at HQ feel you aren't suited for armor warfare and we are transfering you and your crew" I might add too that I play like Victor"Pappa"Hauser with ramped-up AI levels and therefore I take many casaulties, and need all my points to rebuild economically.

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Backstage at the '76 Mr.Olympia: Serge Nubrut to Arnold "I look like I can take you"...Arnold "keep looking"

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Post #: 7
- 7/7/2000 6:44:00 AM   
warhead

 

Posts: 27
Joined: 6/30/2000
From: alabama
Status: offline 		yeah Arralen..the crew leader's name has changed..thats the main reason I know I got a new crew..that and the stats don't match up. When i start a campaign I write down all the unit leaders and their rally,"prime fire factor(e.g. armor rating for afv leaders and the inf rating for inf leaders) and their exp and morale rating. After a battle I fix and/or re-equip and rewrite down my leaders. I'm an old baseball stat nut and I like to track my unit kills and overall improvements(do you realize that rally ratings now improve too?). When I crew gets KIAd I miss them...also by doing this I'm able to observe the effects on exp. by changing equip types....morale drops due to excessive casaulties...and the small over-time improvements to the stats(lower stat numbers will increase more initially and then the acceleration tapers off at about 85 or so). I watch my guys grow, I watch my guys die. I remember an earlier post by someone where he mentions that he is often more proud of the "recovery effort" to rescue bailed-out experienced crews than the battle results itself..well thats me too...I go to great lengths to get my guys out alive...and I don't reload and go back to my last save..thats cheesy.

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Backstage at the '76 Mr.Olympia: Serge Nubrut to Arnold "I look like I can take you"...Arnold "keep looking"

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Post #: 8
- 7/7/2000 8:14:00 PM   
Charles22

 

Posts: 912
Joined: 5/17/2000
From: Dallas, Texas, USA
Status: offline 		Warhead: Perhaps your statistical aptitude could be an asset here. Perhaps you've stumbled across something none of us have ever noticed. "Perhaps" when a tank is destroyed, the captain is always the first to go, which would account for the name changing with an upgrade (when no fix was applied beforehand). On the other hand, if you fix it first, perhaps the killed leader is reinstalled. Maybe the program is treating the crew as though it's a gun, so that when you hit 'fix' it merely reestablishes the old crew instead of putting in new members for the ones lost. Still, it is strange, if I understand you correctly, that your crews leader has it's name changed when upgrading. Perhaps the program shows us crews surviving, but in reality it's treating slain tanks as the crew being wiped out (I suppose previous SPs did this). To further qualify your observation, you ought to upgrade a tank which has no damage, but hasn't had the 'fix' put to it, and see if it retains the same crew. I'm thinking it would.

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Post #: 9
- 7/7/2000 8:48:00 PM   
Mike Wood


Posts: 2095
Joined: 3/29/2000
From: Oakland, California
Status: offline 		Hello... It works this way. If there are no survivers in the crew, it is replaced if you fix or upgrade the unit. If there are survivers, you have a choice. If the leader has really bad characteristics or the crew is an unusually crummy one, you should select exchange unit. You will get a new crew. If they are kind of good, hit fix, first. Then you will get the new tank with the old crew. Hope this helps... Michael Wood

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Post #: 10
- 7/7/2000 10:00:00 PM   
Charles22

 

Posts: 912
Joined: 5/17/2000
From: Dallas, Texas, USA
Status: offline 		Mike: Wait a minute... Are you saying that in order to keep the same crew, we have to pay half cost to fix it, and then upgrade it, so that we pay for a new tank all over again (in other words you may be paying 1 1/2 relative times to upgrade)? I always thought we were retaining the same crew on upgrades. So to be safe, we should always upgrade even undamaged units before upgrading (should we wish to retain old crews)?

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Post #: 11
- 7/8/2000 12:53:00 AM   
BA Evans

 

Posts: 250
Joined: 5/25/2000
From: USA
Status: offline
quote:

Originally posted by Charles22: ...in other words you may be paying 1 1/2 relative times to upgrade...
Sounds like a small price to pay in order to keep those valuable elite crews. I am sure a real life commander would bend over backwards to keep his best men. Imagine a few cases of French wine in exchange for cancelling some transfer orders. BA Evans [This message has been edited by BA Evans (edited 07-07-2000).]

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Post #: 12
- 7/8/2000 1:03:00 AM   
Beetlecat

 

Posts: 45
Joined: 6/7/2000
From: Seattle, WA
Status: offline
quote:

Originally posted by BA Evans: Sounds like a small price to pay in order to keep those valuable elite crews. I am sure a real life commander would bend over backwards to keep his best men. Imagine a few cases of French wine in exchange for cancelling some transfer orders. BA Evans
Now, if there was only a way to view the unit stats in the repair/upgrade screen to determine just who these good crew are. I suppose I could just do a little bit of note-taking during the battle, but now that I think of it, points are usually so abundant that any excuse to make me spend more of them is worth while. -Beetlecat

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Post #: 13
- 7/8/2000 1:20:00 AM   
warhead

 

Posts: 27
Joined: 6/30/2000
From: alabama
Status: offline 		Mike...Thats the problem..its not working that way..if I upgrade/exchange a destroyed tank,I lose the crew,despite the crew having survived the battle. I always save at the end of a game at the first opportunity, which is just prior to the fix/repair screen. Hence, I was able to check my "results" a second time. Remember,at the first attempt I selected a few tanks to upgrade/exchange...I lost the crews. After, this battle I had about 10 crews and 2 total KIAs(crew and tank)...I prefer to upgrade/exchange destroyed armor to avoid the 1.5 expense as Chas22 has noted. Well after I upgraded about 6 tanks(w/surviving crews) I lost the crews. You see I had enough crews "floating" around that I can be sure of this. Additionally, as I mentioned I write down my unit leader names prior to battle, and of my 10 "orphaned" crews, those that I went straight to an exchange with were gone. So I reloaded at the save just prior to the fix screen, and this time I "fixed all" and then went about my "exhanging", as you put it. My orphaned crews were back and in new tanks...it just costs 1.5 as much. I don't mind this as my sentiments concur with the earlier poster!? about it being worth it to pay more to retain the battle-hardened high exp. veterans. I just like to know how the system works. In the old SP series you could exchange a killed tank and retain the crew, you can't now..you have to fix first,then exchange the eqp. type if you wish to keep the crew.

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Backstage at the '76 Mr.Olympia: Serge Nubrut to Arnold "I look like I can take you"...Arnold "keep looking"

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Post #: 14
- 7/8/2000 1:25:00 AM   
Charles22

 

Posts: 912
Joined: 5/17/2000
From: Dallas, Texas, USA
Status: offline 		I agree, there's probably enough points to allow for this. In comparison to the SP type games I've played, it seemed, particularly with Panzer Strike, that my upgrades were on a considerably slower pace, so it's not that big of a deal, but it is something behind the scenes for I had no idea that the crews were replaced on upgrades, but that they were just less experienced afterwards. Stating the case for the opposite viewpoint, that what has been said ISN'T happening, I recall in SP3 I believe, though I cannot tell you for sure whether it was a previously damaged vehicle or not, but I had numerous times where I would upgrade a unit without 'fixing' it first (in fact I never did that beforehand), with say an experience of 100, and it would come back after the upgrade with perhaps a 90 or 95, when the general German pool experience level was much less. So, though we talk about the crew being replaced, technically, because it has a different leader, are we in effect, actually seeing a crew that has compensated for only the experience loss in upgrading? I ask this, because the names mean nothing to me, but I would like to avoid the double-duty of 'fix' and 'upgrade'. In other word, if the new crew automatically has the experience minus the upgrade charge, that the previous crew had, it's all the same to me. Does SPWAW actually now replace 100 experience crews, when a simple upgrade is done (for Germany), with say a level 70 one? Must I hit 'fix' and then 'upgrade' in order to assure a level 90-95 in the case I describe? Thanks.

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Post #: 15
- 7/8/2000 1:35:00 AM   
warhead

 

Posts: 27
Joined: 6/30/2000
From: alabama
Status: offline 		Beetlecat...I don't have a plethora of points to waste because I play at a difficult level..that is , I ramp up the AI levels to were everthing in the game is dicey. My armor gets KIAd a lot while moving by an AI unit taking a first shot, no target acquistion bonus, just I'm moving, he shoots, I'm dead. I feel that the AI bonus levels are about right if I have to make tough decisions in the ensuing upgrade phase. To me its interesting to have only a relative handful of points to spend to fix about 2/3s of my demolished armor. I get a lot of marginal victories because I take more punishment, and therefore I have less to spend to fix more. Thankfully each infantry KIA doesn't cost points to replace. Many of my inf squads limp "home" with 2-4 dudes left...but their wiser(sp?) for it.

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Backstage at the '76 Mr.Olympia: Serge Nubrut to Arnold "I look like I can take you"...Arnold "keep looking"

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Post #: 16
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