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The Various Available OOB Sets - 1/17/2006 1:55:40 AM   
KG Erwin


Posts: 8981
Joined: 7/25/2000
From: Cross Lanes WV USA
Status: offline 		AFAIK, Matrix has no plans to issue a new "official" OOB set. The existing 8.3 was intended to be backwards compatible with the existing scenarios/campaigns included with the game.

A couple of independent alternative OOB sets are out there, including the popular H2H set and the impending new version of the Alby/Depot Mod.

The H2H Mod incorporates a different mech.exe which was designed by Joerg Loewenstein (Panzer Leo).

The Alby/Depot mod incorporates the programmer conventions of designer Michael Wood, and is meant for use with the current 8.403 mech.exe patch.

A range of choices is available, which can be further customized by use of the in-game "OOB Editor". I, for one, have taken full advantage of this, and tailored the game to match my own personal preferences.

SPWaW is a very "open-ended" game, which allows for user experimentation and tweaking. This is one of its many beautiful features. In that light, the gamer is only restricted by the limits of their imaginations and the parameters of the game code.



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RE: The Various Available OOB Sets - 1/17/2006 3:17:29 AM   
pbhawkin1

 

Posts: 158
Joined: 4/4/2001
From: Mudgee, Australia
Status: offline 		Hi,

Ok, Dumb question ahead!

What actually hapens if I play a PBEM game with an opponent and we have different OOBs?
I realise that some units may show differently, IE icon for inf squad instead of halftrack (BUT will they act differently??).
I also guess that due to mech.exe changes you probably can't play H2H against 8.3 or 8.4.
What about 8.403 v's 8.4 or 8.3 or 7.3?
How far can things change in OOBs before we have to have multiple installments of each version in order to play via PBEM?



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Post #: 2
RE: The Various Available OOB Sets - 1/17/2006 3:25:14 AM   
KG Erwin


Posts: 8981
Joined: 7/25/2000
From: Cross Lanes WV USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: pbhawkins

Hi,

Ok, Dumb question ahead!

What actually hapens if I play a PBEM game with an opponent and we have different OOBs?
I realise that some units may show differently, IE icon for inf squad instead of halftrack (BUT will they act differently??).
I also guess that due to mech.exe changes you probably can't play H2H against 8.3 or 8.4.
What about 8.403 v's 8.4 or 8.3 or 7.3?
How far can things change in OOBs before we have to have multiple installments of each version in order to play via PBEM?




AFAIK, you guys gotta be "in sync" to play PBEM. Yes, it HAS gotten complicated, and no ready answer is available.


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Post #: 3
RE: The Various Available OOB Sets - 1/17/2006 3:36:45 AM   
Alby


Posts: 4855
Joined: 4/29/2000
From: Greenwood, Indiana
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: pbhawkins

Hi,

Ok, Dumb question ahead!

What actually hapens if I play a PBEM game with an opponent and we have different OOBs?
I realise that some units may show differently, IE icon for inf squad instead of halftrack (BUT will they act differently??).
I also guess that due to mech.exe changes you probably can't play H2H against 8.3 or 8.4.
What about 8.403 v's 8.4 or 8.3 or 7.3?
How far can things change in OOBs before we have to have multiple installments of each version in order to play via PBEM?



H2H can only be played against H2H
I have used different mech.exes in pbem games by accident and got no security messages or anything.( for instance 8.3 vs 8.4)
I have no idea how it works I assume each players mech settings is used on their turn.
OOBs should match for pbem otherwise you get error messages.


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Post #: 4
RE: The Various Available OOB Sets - 1/17/2006 3:49:35 AM   
BruceAZ


Posts: 608
Joined: 10/9/2000
From: California
Status: offline 		I do appreciate all of the effort done by others to make sure the OOB’s are perfect and I recognize the we can modify or customize OOB’s to suit our own specific preferences. Mike Woods, and others, are gifted beyond words and we owe them special thanks – considering this game is free – for the amount of work or effort to give us this great game.

My concern is with the constant OOB changes and the number of scens and campaigns that were designed using older OOB’s. It is a real turn off to start a scen or campaign to find the units do not match the original creators design plan, and you end up with some odd unit.

It would be good if we could get one set of OOB’s to use that will remain constant for a period of time. This will allow those that love to create scens and campaigns the ability to try new adventures or projects without the fear a new set of OOB’s will arrive making all to-date work for naught.

I recognize that there are still errors in the OOB’s in either data or pics but let’s put a couple of years into the latest set so we can see new design efforts by others.

Recon
Semper Fi


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RE: The Various Available OOB Sets - 1/17/2006 4:34:55 AM   
Alby


Posts: 4855
Joined: 4/29/2000
From: Greenwood, Indiana
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BruceAZ

I do appreciate all of the effort done by others to make sure the OOB’s are perfect and I recognize the we can modify or customize OOB’s to suit our own specific preferences. Mike Woods, and others, are gifted beyond words and we owe them special thanks – considering this game is free – for the amount of work or effort to give us this great game.

My concern is with the constant OOB changes and the number of scens and campaigns that were designed using older OOB’s. It is a real turn off to start a scen or campaign to find the units do not match the original creators design plan, and you end up with some odd unit.

It would be good if we could get one set of OOB’s to use that will remain constant for a period of time. This will allow those that love to create scens and campaigns the ability to try new adventures or projects without the fear a new set of OOB’s will arrive making all to-date work for naught.

I recognize that there are still errors in the OOB’s in either data or pics but let’s put a couple of years into the latest set so we can see new design efforts by others.

Recon
Semper Fi


I wouldnt call them OOB changes per say.
altho there have been new formations and units added.
alot of the work is fixing/changing things that do not do what the code intended.
over the years things have been done to units and the weapons that the code was never meant to handle or interpret. I am guilty of this myself, Thanks to Mike Wood, we are getting alot of these oddities removed.
Satchel Charges given a weapon size 222 is one example. (why was this ever done in the first place )
For over a year I have been running across oddities like this. and many many many inconsistancies through out the OOBs.

The Standard 8.3 oobs are still the official version, flawed as they are, H2H and The Depot Multi 2 just offer players other options to use for their enjoyment.
Plus Scenarios can easily be altered/fixed in a few minutes by gamers if they choose to use alternate oobs and play the old scenarios and campaigns.

As Gunny stated...

"SPWaW is a very "open-ended" game, which allows for user experimentation and tweaking. This is one of its many beautiful features. In that light, the gamer is only restricted by the limits of their imaginations and the parameters of the game code."









< Message edited by Alby -- 1/17/2006 4:39:19 AM >

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RE: The Various Available OOB Sets - 1/17/2006 5:09:54 AM   
KG Erwin


Posts: 8981
Joined: 7/25/2000
From: Cross Lanes WV USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Alby

quote:

ORIGINAL: BruceAZ

I do appreciate all of the effort done by others to make sure the OOB’s are perfect and I recognize the we can modify or customize OOB’s to suit our own specific preferences. Mike Woods, and others, are gifted beyond words and we owe them special thanks – considering this game is free – for the amount of work or effort to give us this great game.

My concern is with the constant OOB changes and the number of scens and campaigns that were designed using older OOB’s. It is a real turn off to start a scen or campaign to find the units do not match the original creators design plan, and you end up with some odd unit.

It would be good if we could get one set of OOB’s to use that will remain constant for a period of time. This will allow those that love to create scens and campaigns the ability to try new adventures or projects without the fear a new set of OOB’s will arrive making all to-date work for naught.

I recognize that there are still errors in the OOB’s in either data or pics but let’s put a couple of years into the latest set so we can see new design efforts by others.

Recon
Semper Fi


I wouldnt call them OOB changes per say.
altho there have been new formations and units added.
alot of the work is fixing/changing things that do not do what the code intended.
over the years things have been done to units and the weapons that the code was never meant to handle or interpret. I am guilty of this myself, Thanks to Mike Wood, we are getting alot of these oddities removed.
Satchel Charges given a weapon size 222 is one example. (why was this ever done in the first place )
For over a year I have been running across oddities like this. and many many many inconsistancies through out the OOBs.

The Standard 8.3 oobs are still the official version, flawed as they are, H2H and The Depot Multi 2 just offer players other options to use for their enjoyment.
Plus Scenarios can easily be altered/fixed in a few minutes by gamers if they choose to use alternate oobs and play the old scenarios and campaigns.

As Gunny stated...

"SPWaW is a very "open-ended" game, which allows for user experimentation and tweaking. This is one of its many beautiful features. In that light, the gamer is only restricted by the limits of their imaginations and the parameters of the game code."





Bruce, what you are wanting is the Holy Grail in SPWaW. One database that is definitive.

The closest will be the Alby/Depot mod. The problem is this -- it would require every scenario/campaign designer to rewrite their scenarios.

It would ALSO require that each Megacampaign be rewritten.

A "one size fits all" approach is, sadly, not readily applicable at present.


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Post #: 7
RE: The Various Available OOB Sets - 1/17/2006 5:51:38 AM   
Alby


Posts: 4855
Joined: 4/29/2000
From: Greenwood, Indiana
Status: offline 		Im not sure how the Mega Campaigns work, but most scenarios would simply require deleting and rebuying a unit or two here and there. They would not have to be "rewritten" per say.
Most gamers can do this in a few minutes.
For instance if the scenario uses the PzIVG+ , You would have to open the scenario editor, load the scenario in question, open the buy menu, delete this/these units and rebuy with say the PzIVG as opposed to the "+" unit because they dont exist in The Depot Mod...Then save.
Thats about the extent of it.
But I digress.....
I know most gamers probably dont feel like having to do this.
anyway Like I said, H2H and The Depot Mod are out there just for something different.



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Post #: 8
RE: The Various Available OOB Sets - 1/17/2006 7:11:28 AM   
DoubleDeuce


Posts: 1247
Joined: 6/23/2000
From: Crossville, TN
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Alby

Im not sure how the Mega Campaigns work, but most scenarios would simply require deleting and rebuying a unit or two here and there. They would not have to be "rewritten" per say.
Most gamers can do this in a few minutes.

Usually whenever you edit a scenario (delete/purchase units in the editor) you have to redo ALL the waypoints. You would laso have to redeploy all of them IIRC.

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Post #: 9
RE: The Various Available OOB Sets - 1/17/2006 10:55:54 AM   
pbhawkin1

 

Posts: 158
Joined: 4/4/2001
From: Mudgee, Australia
Status: offline 		Ok,
Some answers to my questions BUT I still don't get what affect it would have (apart from getting an error or security violation message)? I mean that if a unit is supposed to be an inf section in the scenario and the two players have different OOBs then although it may appear as a halftrack icon (instead of inf icon) will it act like that inf section (ie same weapons, arty, recon etc settings) or like a halftrack ?


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Post #: 10
RE: The Various Available OOB Sets - 1/17/2006 3:05:47 PM   
SAMWolf

 

Posts: 141
Joined: 7/30/2000
From: Oregon, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: pbhawkins

Ok,
Some answers to my questions BUT I still don't get what affect it would have (apart from getting an error or security violation message)? I mean that if a unit is supposed to be an inf section in the scenario and the two players have different OOBs then although it may appear as a halftrack icon (instead of inf icon) will it act like that inf section (ie same weapons, arty, recon etc settings) or like a halftrack ?



I had a scenario where the units should have been a T-34 but showed up as Infantry HQ section. The unit had the characteristics (weapons, movement) of the T-34 and fired the 76mm main gun but when fired on took the casualties like an infantry section. They died from taking losses from small arms fire.

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Post #: 11
RE: The Various Available OOB Sets - 1/17/2006 4:03:57 PM   
Alby


Posts: 4855
Joined: 4/29/2000
From: Greenwood, Indiana
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Double Deuce

quote:

ORIGINAL: Alby

Im not sure how the Mega Campaigns work, but most scenarios would simply require deleting and rebuying a unit or two here and there. They would not have to be "rewritten" per say.
Most gamers can do this in a few minutes.

Usually whenever you edit a scenario (delete/purchase units in the editor) you have to redo ALL the waypoints. You would laso have to redeploy all of them IIRC.


Yes I forgot to mention the redploy part, and if waypoints were set, then they would have to be redone
good call DD

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Post #: 12
RE: The Various Available OOB Sets - 1/17/2006 4:04:51 PM   
Alby


Posts: 4855
Joined: 4/29/2000
From: Greenwood, Indiana
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: pbhawkins

Ok,
Some answers to my questions BUT I still don't get what affect it would have (apart from getting an error or security violation message)? I mean that if a unit is supposed to be an inf section in the scenario and the two players have different OOBs then although it may appear as a halftrack icon (instead of inf icon) will it act like that inf section (ie same weapons, arty, recon etc settings) or like a halftrack ?


I think Sam Wolfs explanation pretty much describes it.

< Message edited by Alby -- 1/17/2006 4:05:49 PM >

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Post #: 13
RE: The Various Available OOB Sets - 1/17/2006 6:47:14 PM   
Mike Wood


Posts: 2095
Joined: 3/29/2000
From: Oakland, California
Status: offline 		Hello...

The halftrack icon is icon zero. If the program cannot figure out what icon number to assign a unit, the icon number remains zero. So, the graphic routine shows icon zero, the halftrack.

This ususally indicates the unit has been deleted from or moved in the data base you are using.

Let us say that unit #40 was a T-34 tank and unit #95 was an infantry unit in the data base. Then some one switches the two units in the data base. Then, we try to play a scenario written before the switch. The scenario contains some data, such as the unit weapons. Other data, such as the unit type and armor are taken from the data base, at run time. In this case, the unit would fire like a T-34 and take casualties like an infantry unit.

Hope this Helps...

Michael Wood

quote:

ORIGINAL: pbhawkins

Ok,
Some answers to my questions BUT I still don't get what affect it would have (apart from getting an error or security violation message)? I mean that if a unit is supposed to be an inf section in the scenario and the two players have different OOBs then although it may appear as a halftrack icon (instead of inf icon) will it act like that inf section (ie same weapons, arty, recon etc settings) or like a halftrack ?




< Message edited by Mike Wood -- 1/17/2006 6:51:59 PM >

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Post #: 14
RE: The Various Available OOB Sets - 1/18/2006 1:20:42 AM   
sabrejack


Posts: 158
Joined: 9/9/2005
Status: offline 		If I watch the replay in a PBEM, I often see crewmen of destroyed vehicles appear as halftracks for a moment, then change to a crewmen icon when the screen comes back to that area after moving to another part of the map.

During my turns I don't see the 'halftrack men'.

That's using stock 8.3, or in DepotMod 2. I don't think I've seen it happen in H2H.

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Post #: 15
RE: The Various Available OOB Sets - 1/18/2006 2:09:36 AM   
JediMessiah

 

Posts: 157
Joined: 3/1/2001
From: Elmhurst, Il, USA
Status: offline 		i get this as well, but not always a HT..one time i was playing with some bike trrops and instead of an ht it was bike troops

-jedi

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Post #: 16
RE: The Various Available OOB Sets - 1/18/2006 12:40:08 PM   
soldier

 

Posts: 199
Joined: 5/24/2005
Status: offline 		I have something similar too, only seen it in the fairly recent depot multi mod. In a pbem i was playing, my stugs appeared as green jets (ala MBT) during the replay function but returned and performed as normal during my turn. Very unusual but didn't really affect the battle.

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Post #: 17
RE: The Various Available OOB Sets - 1/18/2006 5:47:54 PM   
Alby


Posts: 4855
Joined: 4/29/2000
From: Greenwood, Indiana
Status: offline 		I have not seen any of this, something to do with the replay function I would guess

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RE: The Various Available OOB Sets - 1/19/2006 12:04:18 AM   
chief


Posts: 1660
Joined: 9/28/2000
From: Haines City FL, USA
Status: offline 		Alby: If you play the Herfeld Station with your mod installed you'll get HT's carrying HT's as passengers (actually they are MG's and 60mm mtrs.) I changed them using the editor, takes a little time but I got plenty of that. Thanks to Warrior advice for the cure. So I suspect that what we have here is a failure to communicate??????????whoops got off on the wrong foot. Seriously looks like older OOBs and newer mods. It would be nice to know which scenarios are affected, then the player could make the correction with the editor when he starts.



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Post #: 19
RE: The Various Available OOB Sets - 1/19/2006 12:13:46 AM   
Alby


Posts: 4855
Joined: 4/29/2000
From: Greenwood, Indiana
Status: offline 		I have no idea which scenarios might be affected
too many out there


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Post #: 20
RE: The Various Available OOB Sets - 1/19/2006 1:06:16 AM   
chief


Posts: 1660
Joined: 9/28/2000
From: Haines City FL, USA
Status: offline 		Alby: I didn't mean YOU should know what scenarios were/are effected.....only meant that if anyone found an abnomality in say the latest canned scenarios that he mentioned which one. You sir have enough to keep you busy and I really do appreciate all your hard work. Sorry if we got our wires crossed. If I know a scenario has problems I can correct it, within reason of course, such as the wrong passenger problem. Once it's corrected and with the authors permission the revised version can be propogated in the forums, much like you do with the OObs.

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Post #: 21
RE: The Various Available OOB Sets - 1/19/2006 1:41:46 AM   
Alby


Posts: 4855
Joined: 4/29/2000
From: Greenwood, Indiana
Status: offline 		yes sir fully agree


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Post #: 22
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