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something new - 1/19/2006 5:39:10 PM   
Tootenhamon

 

Posts: 24
Joined: 10/9/2005
Status: offline 		Sory, i didn't know where to post this one, and i chose this one. I wonder, will there efer be a game just like WITP but that would take place in occupied Europe? Don't you think that it would be much more interresting? For example war in North Affrica or 1944 by Germans with Panthers against Russians, administrating armored divisions, organizing Normandy assault, taking care of German fleet, maybe even letting players to build ships with a country by themselves and giving to ships some greater names than just "Bismarck" or "Tirpitz". What do you think? Will this game ever be produced, or maybe it's already under costruction?
Post #: 1
RE: something new - 1/19/2006 6:35:58 PM   
rtrapasso


Posts: 22653
Joined: 9/3/2002
Status: offline 		Soemthing like that was under consideration (War in the Med) but the idea was dropped.

(in reply to Tootenhamon)
Post #: 2
RE: something new - 1/19/2006 6:45:27 PM   
niceguy2005


Posts: 12523
Joined: 7/4/2005
From: Super secret hidden base
Status: offline 		I'm not nearly the WWII game buff that some on this forum are, but I do think that a game with all the richness and detail of WiTP would be great. The actual game engine itself though would not be very good at all. WiTP is first and foremost about naval warfare. The aircombat simulation isn't bad, IMO. Yet the ground combat simulation leaves a bit to be desired. I think a war simulation in which ground combat is emphasized would be important for Europe.

However, if anyone knows of such a game, I hope they post. I would be interested in checking it out.

In my warped mind I am craving a TOTAL World War II version of WiTP. One that literally spans the entire globe. I want to see Japan invading Venezuela. I want to see Candian troops fighting in Scandanavia. I want to play Russia facing a war against both Germany and Japan. Most of all, I want to play the UK, desperately trying to hang on to her empire and figthing the war in the Med. What a great multiplayer game that would be. One player for Germany/Italy, one for Japan, one for Russia, One for UK, one for US, with all players having different victory conditions! Darn where's that salivating smiley when I need one.

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Post #: 3
RE: something new - 1/19/2006 7:03:18 PM   
Mr.Frag


Posts: 13410
Joined: 12/18/2002
From: Purgatory
Status: offline
quote:

In my warped mind I am craving a TOTAL World War II version of WiTP.


There are various games of that nature but not at this kind of depth. There's probably only 1000 people on the planet who would actually commit to playing it so the price would have to be pretty astronomical. It would probably take 10 years to play with a player turn being a week of data entry

Sign me up, I'll buy a copy! Last thing I'll ever play, but hey, nothing wrong with going out in style.

(in reply to niceguy2005)
Post #: 4
RE: something new - 1/19/2006 7:12:30 PM   
niceguy2005


Posts: 12523
Joined: 7/4/2005
From: Super secret hidden base
Status: offline 		LOL. It wouldn't be the first time I became a computer game zombie (where's that smiley too).

Maybe if we gathered the brightest minds on the planet to work the problem they could figure out how to do one week turns and still offer lots of player control. Sounds like a worthy endevour to me.

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Post #: 5
RE: something new - 1/19/2006 7:18:54 PM   
AmiralLaurent

 

Posts: 3351
Joined: 3/11/2003
From: Near Paris, France
Status: offline 		I think a total WWII WITP-like would need much work.... WITP engine is not designed for big ground campains, and will have a hard time to simulate the strategic war over Europe (with 1000 heavies escorting by 500 P-51 and intercepted by 800 German fighters... losses will be above 1000 each day...). Also WITP is designed for playing two sides, while countries switching sides were an important part of the war in Europe.

The main problem with WITP is that it allows you to manage squads or gather an army of one million men at the same place. A very wide range of size and the game is not taking it into account. The squad will still be able to block the retreat of the million man.

Also the size of the WWII will need a major revamping of the interface, to minimize the clicking required. For example, the ability to create "administrative units" gathering several units to give orders quicker. For example, not being obliged to pick up each ship to add in a TF but being able to group them in flotilla and division and just have to add them trough it. same with air units and so on. And being able to destroy and create

Then you have to have a working autoconvoy system.

And many, many free time

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Post #: 6
RE: something new - 1/19/2006 7:21:47 PM   
Nikademus


Posts: 25684
Joined: 5/27/2000
From: Alien spacecraft
Status: offline 		I'm not sure i could play a game with WitP's detail level at that scale. Games like WitP and BTR take enough time as is. An ecompasing WWII game would be scary.

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Post #: 7
RE: something new - 1/19/2006 7:52:23 PM   
niceguy2005


Posts: 12523
Joined: 7/4/2005
From: Super secret hidden base
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Nikademus

I'm not sure i could play a game with WitP's detail level at that scale. Games like WitP and BTR take enough time as is. An ecompasing WWII game would be scary.


Fear not brave adventurer.

Actually, you're probably right that WiTP detail would be overwhelming, so some scale down would be needed. Also, hexes would need to be bigger than 60 miles, which would mean rescaling the whole system. Logistics would need to be streamlined.

But, if you think about it, a lot of WiTP would work. The handling of naval, air and land combat, generally would work. There probably would be some scale and ZOC problems. The player would need a lot more tools in terms of managing units; some sort of "order and forget" system would be needed.

Still, the day is coming when such a game will be feasible.

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Post #: 8
RE: something new - 1/19/2006 8:15:29 PM   
Tootenhamon

 

Posts: 24
Joined: 10/9/2005
Status: offline 		Well, i didn't mean to make a whole game on the big one map. I would like to see a war cut in for example 200 single scenarios. Mediterrenean, few scenarios in Pacific,
Norway, Fall Gelb, Fall Weiss, Barbarossa, Kursk, Assault on Stalingrad, Barbarossa maybe portioned in: North, including Finland and Germany on one side and Soviet Union on the other, Center, a big one, and a third scenario, South, in which we will be playing Germans, Hungary, Romania on one side and Soviets on the other, 5 Atlantic scenarios (1940,41,42,43,44,maybe 45), there could be included quite a few temporary events, such as British-Murmansk konvoys, and USA-British ones, maybe 3 camps. in North Africa, 2 in Italy, One big scenario 1941-1944 that would be taking place on map with Germany, Denmark, Norway, England, France and maybe some Italy, scenario "defence of germany 1945" shortly before Ardenes offensive, maybe some more scenarios on the east front. Main part would be taking part in Europe. Maybe some psycho-theoretic campaigns in America or Asia could be added. Also, what is VERY IMPORTANT FOR ME, an easy map and mission creator. I have some ideas for scenarios i could make for my own use, but i have no fuc... just no idea how could i make it running. Graphics... I don't think if realy this from WITP is so bad. Maps have to be usefull, not good looking. That;s what i think. Maybe production system could be... well. Expanded, but simplified. I don't know if you know what i mean. But i would simplify it, by giving player acces only to mining, production sction and so. But no special modifiers. For example we want to build a battleship by germans. We are going to Hamburg shipyard (Blohm und Voss) and we are looking, what kind of docks in which we can build our ships are available. For example, we have 1 dock big enough to launch a battleship or battlecruiser, four for cruisers, ten for destroyers and some 50 for submarine. Than we are creating battleship we want. Maybe in options an option to switch betwen advanced and siple building modes. Second one is just launching a ship with an historical plan. Second one, we are creating battleship with guns we imagine, our armor and so. Of course the more we take on board, the more turns we have to make. But the turns would have to go quick, not like in WITP. No wasting time for moving units from this province to another one. Just set course and we are waiting 1-2 minutes for next turn to load. I don't like reading in WITP in this window on low left that second man from my second platoon of third battalion of fifth brigade from onehoundredtwentyfourth divison from infinant army group is moving to hex 123471,12347... It's realy so booring... Flaki z olejem :D Tell me what's important to me. Where is my fleet engaged? Where are planes fighting? Where are my units with enemy units in the same hex? That's all. I don't need that all other ****. You know what i mean? I hope so :D

(in reply to niceguy2005)
Post #: 9
RE: something new - 1/19/2006 8:22:19 PM   
Tootenhamon

 

Posts: 24
Joined: 10/9/2005
Status: offline 		Ok, after that post i realised that it's a bit too big as for my mind-telling :D So that's what i meant in simplification: a player is to be a general of one front, or admiral, or air general, with his capabilities expanded for controling units from all kinds of forces in some range and with capabilities of controling limited production. Smaller scenarios, so that player would have turns changed faster. And once again: PLAYER SHOULD NOT BE GOD-LIKE like in WITP. He should have a task he has to do, and he has to play and take fun from it. But nothing else. You know what i was thinking when i first saw WITP? Sadomasochism. I think that it wasn't just my reaction and many more players had torsions because of the first look on this game.

(in reply to Tootenhamon)
Post #: 10
RE: something new - 1/19/2006 8:23:43 PM   
Gen.Hoepner


Posts: 3645
Joined: 9/4/2001
From: italy
Status: offline 		Hey..Mike Wood is working( or is supposed to start) on WIR ( War in Russia or whatever is it called)...with the experience of creating WITP in his background, i think that game will be the monster we're all looking for.

God...imagine waiting for the turn where your Leibstandarte Division has been ordered to break the last defensive line of Moscow and at the same time waiting for a witp turn where your KB is engaging a midway-type battle...

Simply fantastic! I think i won't need no girl anymore after that game goes gold

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Post #: 11
RE: something new - 1/19/2006 8:40:39 PM   
rtrapasso


Posts: 22653
Joined: 9/3/2002
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Gen.Hoepner

Hey..Mike Wood is working( or is supposed to start) on WIR ( War in Russia or whatever is it called)...with the experience of creating WITP in his background, i think that game will be the monster we're all looking for.

God...imagine waiting for the turn where your Leibstandarte Division has been ordered to break the last defensive line of Moscow and at the same time waiting for a witp turn where your KB is engaging a midway-type battle...

Simply fantastic! I think i won't need no girl anymore after that game goes gold


Somehow, i don't think it will have much in the way of naval action.

(in reply to Gen.Hoepner)
Post #: 12
RE: something new - 1/19/2006 10:28:14 PM   
Mr.Frag


Posts: 13410
Joined: 12/18/2002
From: Purgatory
Status: offline
quote:

Somehow, i don't think it will have much in the way of naval action.


There are some rivers I think ... you could have a rowboat or two ... naw, forget that, they are frozen over

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Post #: 13
RE: something new - 1/19/2006 11:58:20 PM   
Raverdave


Posts: 6520
Joined: 2/8/2002
From: Melb. Australia
Status: offline 		Mmmmmmmmmmm War In Rooosha.

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Post #: 14
RE: something new - 1/20/2006 12:13:24 AM   
spence

 

Posts: 5400
Joined: 4/20/2003
From: Vancouver, Washington
Status: offline 		Something along the WITP engine might work for a Battle of the Atlantic type game, or maybe not.

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Post #: 15
RE: something new - 1/20/2006 12:57:59 AM   
niceguy2005


Posts: 12523
Joined: 7/4/2005
From: Super secret hidden base
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Raverdave

Mmmmmmmmmmm War In Rooosha.


I am not looling to pick a fight here, but I'm trying to understand why WiR would be a good idea. For the life of me, I have never understood wargamers love affair with the war in Russia. To me it's rather mundane. A slugfest between two mighty armies. It was certainly brutal and no doubt bloody, but interesting, particularly on the strategic level? Now on the tactical level, squad vs. squad combat (or maybe company vs company) I think it is great!

War in the Med would be much better.

War in the Atlantic just doesn't seem like it would be much of a challenge. The Axis just didn't have the navy to make it interesting over the long term.

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Post #: 16
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