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RE: Maps for MWIF - 1/26/2006 8:03:24 PM

Shannon V. OKeets

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I meant to add - The labels for the sea areas are large, but I think that works out very well. When the map is viewed at zoom level 2 (50%) all the names of the sea areas are easily readable. I thought about trying to make that happen for zoom level 1, but it was too much. [There isn't much actual selecting of units possible at zoom level 1 anyway.] The reason this is important is that when moving the naval units, you want to be able to have large areas of the map visible (low zoom level).

My darling wife asked if there were going to be compass roses in the empty sea areas (the old fashioned N-S-E-W compasses like on maps of the 17th century). That raises some interesting alternative possibilities too. A lot of the sea hexes are unimportant - large swatches of them - and some artwork could be placed there. Suggestions?

_____________________________

Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

(in reply to Shannon V. OKeets)

Post #: 361

RE: Maps for MWIF - 1/26/2006 8:30:12 PM

Greyshaft

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* Terrain Effects Chart
* A diagram explaining the little colored lights at the top of units (uh... which one means unsupplied?)
* An autographed picture of Steve getting a hole-in-one.

_____________________________

/Greyshaft

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Post #: 362

RE: Maps for MWIF - 1/26/2006 8:46:30 PM

dhatchen

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Greyshaft

* An autographed picture of Steve getting a hole-in-one.

We can put that one beside the sea monsters and other mythical creatures.

(in reply to Greyshaft)

Post #: 363

RE: Maps for MWIF - 1/26/2006 9:02:13 PM

Anendrue

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Sea horses pulling a chariot with Posideon and his trident.

Atlas holding up the world.

Old naval ship wheel.

_____________________________

Integrity is what you do when nobody is watching.

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Post #: 364

RE: Maps for MWIF - 1/26/2006 9:06:06 PM

Shannon V. OKeets

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From: Honolulu, Hawaii
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quote:

ORIGINAL: dhatchen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Greyshaft

* An autographed picture of Steve getting a hole-in-one.

We can put that one beside the sea monsters and other mythical creatures.

I've done it twice. But only once with witnesses. It's shooting a round of even par that still eludes me (4 times at 1 over par).

_____________________________

Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

(in reply to dhatchen)

Post #: 365

RE: Maps for MWIF - 1/26/2006 9:09:25 PM

Shannon V. OKeets

Posts: 22095
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From: Honolulu, Hawaii
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Greyshaft

* Terrain Effects Chart
* A diagram explaining the little colored lights at the top of units (uh... which one means unsupplied?)
* An autographed picture of Steve getting a hole-in-one.

How do you-all feel about placing something up in the northern reaches of Siberia - far away from any possible source of supply (and therefore movement and combat)? I have this vague sense that a Terrain Effects Chart should be on land.

_____________________________

Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

(in reply to Greyshaft)

Post #: 366

RE: Maps for MWIF - 1/26/2006 9:11:17 PM

Shannon V. OKeets

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From: Honolulu, Hawaii
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quote:

ORIGINAL: abj9562

Sea horses pulling a chariot with Posideon and his trident.

Atlas holding up the world.

Old naval ship wheel.

I really like the wheel.

Perhaps something cicra WW II?

_____________________________

Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

(in reply to Anendrue)

Post #: 367

RE: Maps for MWIF - 1/26/2006 9:16:18 PM

dhatchen

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I think that would be fine.

And, Yes, the TEC should be on land if the location won't interfere with play.

Reminds me of an old Eastern Front game where the Russian north flank was best anchoured on the TEC.

In a spirit of Greyshaft, i.e., Trivia, can anybody tell me what that game was...

(in reply to Shannon V. OKeets)

Post #: 368

RE: Maps for MWIF - 1/26/2006 9:35:09 PM

Anendrue

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TEC in Siberia sounds good. Maybe a skinned border of frozen icicles.

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Post #: 369

RE: Maps for MWIF - 1/26/2006 9:37:18 PM

Shannon V. OKeets

Posts: 22095
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From: Honolulu, Hawaii
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quote:

ORIGINAL: dhatchen

I think that would be fine.

And, Yes, the TEC should be on land if the location won't interfere with play.

Reminds me of an old Eastern Front game where the Russian north flank was best anchoured on the TEC.

In a spirit of Greyshaft, i.e., Trivia, can anybody tell me what that game was...

War in the East, where the true value of preserving a 1-4 infantry unit was taught to all war gamers.

_____________________________

Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

(in reply to dhatchen)

Post #: 370

RE: Maps for MWIF - 1/26/2006 9:54:17 PM

Ballista

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Please don't deface any part of the land map with any charts (or at least make them toggle-able). I guess I'm a map purist, but if it can be moved on (even if you get flipped every turn) it should not be blocked at all. I hated board games that defaced the land map with charts. As for the sea areas, chart them up as much as desired :)

(in reply to Shannon V. OKeets)

Post #: 371

RE: Maps for MWIF - 1/26/2006 10:01:41 PM

c92nichj

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Joined: 1/14/2005
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quote:

* Terrain Effects Chart
* A diagram explaining the little colored lights at the top of units (uh... which one means unsupplied?)

I think it would be better that if you could access those from the help menu. I wouldn't want to scroll to siberia each time I want to reference the TEC.

(in reply to Greyshaft)

Post #: 372

RE: Maps for MWIF - 1/26/2006 10:13:19 PM

Shannon V. OKeets

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ballista

Please don't deface any part of the land map with any charts (or at least make them toggle-able). I guess I'm a map purist, but if it can be moved on (even if you get flipped every turn) it should not be blocked at all. I hated board games that defaced the land map with charts. As for the sea areas, chart them up as much as desired :)

Definitely an option - as part of the player interface. All glitz should be options to my way of thinking. [There is a LOT of Siberia though. I don't think there are enough turns in the game to get a land unit across it all on foot.]

_____________________________

Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

(in reply to Ballista)

Post #: 373

RE: Maps for MWIF - 1/26/2006 10:15:51 PM

Shannon V. OKeets

Posts: 22095
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From: Honolulu, Hawaii
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quote:

ORIGINAL: c92nichj

quote:

* Terrain Effects Chart
* A diagram explaining the little colored lights at the top of units (uh... which one means unsupplied?)

I think it would be better that if you could access those from the help menu. I wouldn't want to scroll to siberia each time I want to reference the TEC.

Yes, I agree. But there is no real reason to not have both (other than coding it). Access a copy from the help menu when you are in immediate need. Peruse the on map copy when you are idle, (e.g., waiting for the other player(s) to move).

_____________________________

Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

(in reply to c92nichj)

Post #: 374

RE: Maps for MWIF - 1/26/2006 11:07:53 PM

YohanTM2

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I agree with keeping the TEC charts off the land. What about a pop-up window that can be moved around to not block units?

Rob

(in reply to Shannon V. OKeets)

Post #: 375

RE: Maps for MWIF - 1/27/2006 12:14:00 AM

Shannon V. OKeets

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From: Honolulu, Hawaii
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Mobile informational screens is a good idea.

The area of Siberia that (conservatively) would never be reached by any unit is 90 hexes wide by 30 high. That is comparable to the area from Portugal to the Caspian Sea, Oslo to Rome. Or, viewed another way, roughly 1/4 of the map's width and 1/6 of its height. At zoom level 2 (50%) the whole screen is full of hexes that will never be in play - and can be scrolled a full width again either left of right.

But it doesn't really matter to me. There was just some feeling of not wanting to 'waste' the space (I'll just blame that on my parents, either poor genes or poor upbringing).

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Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

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Post #: 376

RE: Maps for MWIF - 1/27/2006 12:28:02 AM

YohanTM2

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chuckle

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Post #: 377

RE: Maps for MWIF - 1/27/2006 2:26:41 PM

Caranorn

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

How do you-all feel about placing something up in the northern reaches of Siberia - far away from any possible source of supply (and therefore movement and combat)? I have this vague sense that a Terrain Effects Chart should be on land.

Sounds good to me, as long as no sensible player would ever think of ending up with troops up there.

_____________________________

Marc aka Caran... ministerialis

(in reply to Shannon V. OKeets)

Post #: 378

RE: Maps for MWIF - 1/27/2006 2:29:46 PM

Caranorn

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ballista

Please don't deface any part of the land map with any charts (or at least make them toggle-able). I guess I'm a map purist, but if it can be moved on (even if you get flipped every turn) it should not be blocked at all. I hated board games that defaced the land map with charts. As for the sea areas, chart them up as much as desired :)

It's not always that easy, I'm currently preparing a board game map and there is one area that is really unecessary for game play and badly documented (all the old maps leave that area blank as nothing happened there), so I will use that space to place some map related charts or the turn track. While a fully drawn map would look great it'd be neither necessary nor feasible in this case.

_____________________________

Marc aka Caran... ministerialis

(in reply to Ballista)

Post #: 379

RE: Maps for MWIF - 1/27/2006 2:34:25 PM

Caranorn

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From: Luxembourg
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

quote:

ORIGINAL: abj9562

Sea horses pulling a chariot with Posideon and his trident.

Atlas holding up the world.

Old naval ship wheel.

I really like the wheel.

Perhaps something cicra WW II?

How about a small image of a sinking cruiser, elsewhere a tanker in flames, somewhere else a lonely periscope amid some waves, maybe a lonely patrol plane in the next sea zone. I'm sure some appropriate photos could be found and reduced to appropriate size ((clipping anything irrelevant, or even redrawing it by hand)). It would certainly give an impression of the war at sea.

Oh and I forgot, also the occasional convoy sailing intact. And not to forget, the yacht Harry will buy once he has earned millions from selling MWiF;-) (a bit anachronistic but it'd make a nice easter egg).

P.S.: If not harry's yacht maybe the one from the Nimitz movie, just as a little joke, or maybe the Nimitz itself.

_____________________________

Marc aka Caran... ministerialis

(in reply to Shannon V. OKeets)

Post #: 380

RE: Maps for MWIF - 1/27/2006 4:24:27 PM

c92nichj

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Caranorn

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

How do you-all feel about placing something up in the northern reaches of Siberia - far away from any possible source of supply (and therefore movement and combat)? I have this vague sense that a Terrain Effects Chart should be on land.

Sounds good to me, as long as no sensible player would ever think of ending up with troops up there.

I wouldn't mind having nice graphics there (some tanks in frozen mud comes to mind), but I don't see a reason to have charts and other info that you need to reference on the map.
On a paper game sure there space is limited, but in a computergame I cannot really see why you would print charts on the map, they would be much better to get using the help menu.

(in reply to Caranorn)

Post #: 381

RE: Maps for MWIF - 1/27/2006 6:14:18 PM

Froonp

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From: Marseilles, France
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quote:

My darling wife asked if there were going to be compass roses in the empty sea areas (the old fashioned N-S-E-W compasses like on maps of the 17th century). That raises some interesting alternative possibilities too. A lot of the sea hexes are unimportant - large swatches of them - and some artwork could be placed there. Suggestions?

Tell your darling wife that we also need to see all those little hexdots that are in the sea. They allow us to count the ranges for our darling planes enroute to our bad enemies

.
So please, put any artwork that you want at sea, but let the hexdots be visible.
Those compasses you describes are good ideas as some others I read here too, but please leave the hexdots visible. Put the art on the background.
Will there be different graphics for the seas under the different weathers ? Would be pretty too.

(in reply to Shannon V. OKeets)

Post #: 382

RE: Maps for MWIF - 1/27/2006 6:20:04 PM

Shannon V. OKeets

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From: Honolulu, Hawaii
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quote:

ORIGINAL: c92nichj
I wouldn't mind having nice graphics there (some tanks in frozen mud comes to mind), but I don't see a reason to have charts and other info that you need to reference on the map.
On a paper game sure there space is limited, but in a computergame I cannot really see why you would print charts on the map, they would be much better to get using the help menu.

It has to do with knowledge of how to acquire information and the requisite keystrokes/mouse clicks.

When you have a good undestanding of how the help menu provides information, and assuming it does so with a minimum of fuss and bother, that is the place to get charts et al. Actually, CWIF had a drop down list of "Information" which seems like a good idea to keep fpr MWIF.

However, when you are new to software, solving the problem of how to get help can be harder than the original problem you are trying to solve. Personally, I have a going in expectation that any help system will provide me with zero help, just 10 - 15 minutes of additional frustration, until I give up on it. Going to the help menu is a last resort.

So, having some commonly needed information placed on the map, positions it where even new players (first time looking at the game) are likely to come across it, and know where to look if they what to examine it in the future. It can also serve as a subtle attempt to get the players interested in the underlying tables and charts that drive movement and combat - get them to go read up on the rules.

_____________________________

Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

(in reply to c92nichj)

Post #: 383

RE: Maps for MWIF - 1/27/2006 6:25:04 PM

Froonp

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quote:

* Terrain Effects Chart

I'd prefer to have it in a menu.

quote:

* A diagram explaining the little colored lights at the top of units (uh... which one means unsupplied?)

Same. In a menu.

quote:

* An autographed picture of Steve getting a hole-in-one.

This is a must. You must have some eastern eggs hidden in the program.

For example, do you know that there are easter eggs on the SiF counters ships silhouettes ?
Tom Cleaveland listed them nearly 6 years ago :

In extremely small type on three of the ship silhouettes are the following bits of text (expand to 1600% to see):
CV Midway: "Perrettus Maximus"
CV Enterprise: "Lance - Semper Fi"
BB Montana: "Neil's BFG"
BB Vittorio Veneto: "Beth Queman"
BB Littorio: "Leilani"
BB Impero: "Jack Greene"
BB Girg. Averoff (Greek): "Belisarius"
0.10.0.0.3.2 CW Transport: "Holy Grail"
CV Indefatiguable: "BGS Lotus"
CV Ark Royal: "Anyway Amigo..."
BB Lion: "Nich Hills"
BB Hood: "Rick"
BB Bismarck: "ScheissBvB"
BB Scharnhorst: "Lerch"
CV Graf Zeppelin: "KaiservonMartin"
BB Yamato: "GPO1" (on the bow instead of the stern)
BB Musashi: "Haku-shi"
BB October Revolution: "Comrade Spencer"

This is visible on the PDF countersheets provided n the WiF Companion CD, at 1600% zoom.

Look :

Attachment (1)

(in reply to Greyshaft)

Post #: 384

RE: Maps for MWIF - 1/27/2006 6:28:02 PM

Froonp

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quote:

Perhaps something cicra WW II?

Maybe navigation instruments used in WWII, as you can see them on a navigation tables of the warships & subs of the time.

(in reply to Shannon V. OKeets)

Post #: 385

RE: Maps for MWIF - 1/27/2006 6:31:00 PM

Froonp

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From: Marseilles, France
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quote:

How do you-all feel about placing something up in the northern reaches of Siberia - far away from any possible source of supply (and therefore movement and combat)? I have this vague sense that a Terrain Effects Chart should be on land.

Well, scrolling to siberia to read it would be a pain in the ...
Edit : Moreover, if one day the chart changes a little, and that it is changed in the game, there is 90% chances that the graphic is not changed (forgotten or too hard to change) and that it will be wrong.

I'd prefer if there were a couple of tiny humorous graphics in those remote areas. A Polar bear chasing a russian Soldier ?

< Message edited by Froonp -- 1/27/2006 6:33:03 PM >

(in reply to Shannon V. OKeets)

Post #: 386

RE: Maps for MWIF - 1/27/2006 7:44:46 PM

Shannon V. OKeets

Posts: 22095
Joined: 5/19/2005
From: Honolulu, Hawaii
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Froonp

quote:

My darling wife asked if there were going to be compass roses in the empty sea areas (the old fashioned N-S-E-W compasses like on maps of the 17th century). That raises some interesting alternative possibilities too. A lot of the sea hexes are unimportant - large swatches of them - and some artwork could be placed there. Suggestions?

Tell your darling wife that we also need to see all those little hexdots that are in the sea. They allow us to count the ranges for our darling planes enroute to our bad enemies .
So please, put any artwork that you want at sea, but let the hexdots be visible.
Those compasses you describes are good ideas as some others I read here too, but please leave the hexdots visible. Put the art on the background.
Will there be different graphics for the seas under the different weathers ? Would be pretty too.

I was thinking of the Amundsen Sea, Ross Sea, , Southwest Pacific, South Atlantic, South Indian Ocean, West Southern Ocean, Southwest Indian Ocean (far southern part), and Cape Novegia. Essentially, the sea areas at the bottom of the map. Though some of the long range, extended range air units can reach the sea dots in those areas, they are unlikely to be coming in from the south or passing through. Keeping the top couple of rows of sea dots clear is all that is needed for game play.

_____________________________

Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

(in reply to Froonp)

Post #: 387

RE: Maps for MWIF - 1/27/2006 7:54:34 PM

Shannon V. OKeets

Posts: 22095
Joined: 5/19/2005
From: Honolulu, Hawaii
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Froonp

quote:

How do you-all feel about placing something up in the northern reaches of Siberia - far away from any possible source of supply (and therefore movement and combat)? I have this vague sense that a Terrain Effects Chart should be on land.

Well, scrolling to siberia to read it would be a pain in the ...
Edit : Moreover, if one day the chart changes a little, and that it is changed in the game, there is 90% chances that the graphic is not changed (forgotten or too hard to change) and that it will be wrong.

I'd prefer if there were a couple of tiny humorous graphics in those remote areas. A Polar bear chasing a russian Soldier ?

With the global map displayed, it is only a single click away. I also intend to have map views that the player can save and jump to with a single mouse click('favorites' if you will).

Chasing a German soldier might be better?

Easter eggs are even farther down on my list of priorities than most things.

The reason I am thinking about adding the odd graphic to the map is that there are going to be some graphics for the opening screens (when the program in installed, executed for the first time). My thought was to take copies of them and place them about on the map. It bothers me that the opening screens usually only get seen a couple of times and then disappear from the player's view forever - a waste of artwork.

_____________________________

Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

(in reply to Froonp)

Post #: 388

RE: Maps for MWIF - 1/27/2006 7:58:03 PM

Shannon V. OKeets

Posts: 22095
Joined: 5/19/2005
From: Honolulu, Hawaii
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Froonp

quote:

Perhaps something cicra WW II?

Maybe navigation instruments used in WWII, as you can see them on a navigation tables of the warships & subs of the time.

Sounds good.

Navigation charts .. another possibility.

_____________________________

Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

(in reply to Froonp)

Post #: 389

RE: Maps for MWIF - 1/27/2006 11:24:53 PM

Ballista

Posts: 183
Joined: 1/21/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Caranorn

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ballista

Please don't deface any part of the land map with any charts (or at least make them toggle-able). I guess I'm a map purist, but if it can be moved on (even if you get flipped every turn) it should not be blocked at all. I hated board games that defaced the land map with charts. As for the sea areas, chart them up as much as desired :)

It's not always that easy, I'm currently preparing a board game map and there is one area that is really unecessary for game play and badly documented (all the old maps leave that area blank as nothing happened there), so I will use that space to place some map related charts or the turn track. While a fully drawn map would look great it'd be neither necessary nor feasible in this case.

Easily understandable. And for a paper map considerably so. I just want to move my 3-3's around the edge of the 100+ attrition column.... (WARNING obscure TR reference)...

< Message edited by Ballista -- 1/27/2006 11:28:30 PM >

(in reply to Caranorn)

Post #: 390