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Put your money where your mouth is - 2/8/2006 8:40:26 AM   
Mike Scholl

 

Posts: 9349
Joined: 1/1/2003
From: Kansas City, MO
Status: offline 		It occurs to me that we - the folks who bought WITP - are exactly the primary market 2by3/Matrix is counting on for the core sales of it's upcoming East Front Game. Maybe we should make use of the last leverage we have and simply promise not to buy it until the fix the bugs/problems in the game they've already sold us. Could be our only hope of finally getting a working WITP. I'll go first. I am not buying any more 2x3 offerrings until we get a bug-free WITP. Anyone else?


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RE: Put your money where your mouth is - 2/8/2006 8:46:58 AM   
Bodhi


Posts: 1267
Joined: 8/26/2003
From: Japan
Status: offline 		Already replied in the thread where you first brought this up. No more 2by3 4me.

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RE: Put your money where your mouth is - 2/8/2006 9:12:58 AM   
Nick E

 

Posts: 27
Joined: 11/3/2005
Status: offline 		Excellent idea. I'll boycott ALL Matrix products until WiTP is fixed.

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Post #: 3
RE: Put your money where your mouth is - 2/8/2006 9:25:07 AM   
dtravel


Posts: 4533
Joined: 7/7/2004
Status: offline 		I've said I'm not buying anymore Matrix, 2by3 or Grigsby games for at least a year now.

To be realistic, I don't think any such "boycott" is going to help. If anything it is more likely to stop any further patching efforts. Why should they expend the effort on customers who have stopped being customers?

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Post #: 4
RE: Put your money where your mouth is - 2/8/2006 9:28:36 AM   
rroberson

 

Posts: 2050
Joined: 5/25/2004
From: Arizona
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Scholl

It occurs to me that we - the folks who bought WITP - are exactly the primary market 2by3/Matrix is counting on for the core sales of it's upcoming East Front Game. Maybe we should make use of the last leverage we have and simply promise not to buy it until the fix the bugs/problems in the game they've already sold us. Could be our only hope of finally getting a working WITP. I'll go first. I am not buying any more 2x3 offerrings until we get a bug-free WITP. Anyone else?



Sorry, I hate to burst the bubble. But if they never release another patch I have already gotten more value out of this title then any other game I have purchased in the last..oh...20 years. I spent about 100 bucks total (including having Xargun overnite it to me from Ohio) and its been worth every penny. Is it perfect? Hell no, I have lost several games to the bugs. But it is damn close.

Now as far as their east front game...<shrug>...not really my war. Ill take a look at what others say about it when it comes out and make my decision then.

Frankly, I'm holding out hope that Frag and the gang can make WITP 2 a reality (it was discussed here some months ago).

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Post #: 5
RE: Put your money where your mouth is - 2/8/2006 9:35:29 AM   
Speedysteve

 

Posts: 15998
Joined: 9/11/2001
From: Reading, England
Status: offline 		Don't be silly guys

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Post #: 6
RE: Put your money where your mouth is - 2/8/2006 9:45:36 AM   
von Beanie


Posts: 295
Joined: 6/3/2002
From: Oak Hills, S. California
Status: offline 		The turn-based gaming market doesn't need any boycotts--it's nearly dead already.

I won't support a boycott because:

1) WITP is a highly playable game already, and the bugs are minimal. If you can't create some house rules to overcome whatever problems you percieve then you will never be satisfied by Mike's extraordinary efforts to update this product.

2) I have been waiting since the early days of computer games to see a good division-level game on the eastern front that can be played against a computer. I own nearly every board game ever produced about the eastern front (the collection fills two large closets). I'm sure I will play such a game even more than I play WITP, and I spend thousands of hours playing WITP each year. There's nothing seriously wrong with WITP that warrants a boycott.

I can't wait to try and survive the hoards of Russians that will inevitably be coming my way--so I hope Matrixgames will put 95% of their efforts into that project and ignore this blustering.

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Post #: 7
RE: Put your money where your mouth is - 2/8/2006 9:48:34 AM   
Raverdave


Posts: 6520
Joined: 2/8/2002
From: Melb. Australia
Status: offline 		Sorry, but I cannot sit by and simply watch 2by3 have their name dragged through the mud. IMHO I have had great value for money from playing WiTP (and UV for that matter). YES there are still some issues but if you really want to get down to brass tacks there are even some issues STILL with Harpoon (as way of example). All of you just think back....has there ever been a game that has not had some points that could do with a change? And to be fair 2by3 have never abandoned WiTP....they have brought out patches in response to customers demands and have committed to continue to do so.

Matrix will STILL get my gaming $.

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Post #: 8
RE: Put your money where your mouth is - 2/8/2006 10:10:45 AM   
Terminus


Posts: 41459
Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Denmark
Status: offline 		Oh, a boycot! What a superb idea! Let's deprive them of the money they need to release the bug-free games you think you're going to get. And let's threaten them a bit too, just for good measure. Sheesh...

What the **** is wrong with you people?!?

< Message edited by Terminus -- 2/8/2006 10:13:47 AM >

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Post #: 9
RE: Put your money where your mouth is - 2/8/2006 10:13:58 AM   
goodboyladdie


Posts: 3469
Joined: 11/18/2005
From: Rendlesham, Suffolk
Status: offline 		I agree with Dave. I have been playing these games for over twenty years and to find a company set up to keep turn based strategy alive, offering continued support and development and also running a forum where views can be expressed and acted upon is fantastic.

I am encouraging all of my gaming friends to take a look at matrix. I am sure they will be as hooked as me.

They learn lessons. The transparent and open development of WPO, together with the instant response to any problems from the development team should encourage you that this IS the developer that needs the full support of genuine Wargamers. They are obviously fans first, and if they can't make turn based strategy work as a viable business, no other company will. Ever!

Get behind them if you want this genre to survive.

(in reply to Raverdave)
Post #: 10
RE: Put your money where your mouth is - 2/8/2006 10:44:12 AM   
Bill Durrant


Posts: 967
Joined: 9/16/2003
From: Oxfordshire
Status: offline 		Well it is very tempting to jump on the bandwagon and moan about the support as we have been waiting some time for 1.8 compared with earlier patches.

However, let's compare. Xmas 2004 I got two presents both made by the same Software giant - let's call them Soccer 2005 and Driving 2005. Both had bugs - serious graphics bugs. Well they both got quick fix patches that sort of worked round the problem and the forums said they were working on further patches. Did I ever see further patches - no!

I'll tell you what i did see - 1 month later I start getting bombarded with e-mails by the software giant telling me about the development of Soccer 2006 and Driving 2006 which have no doubt now been released with bugs and are pretty much unsupported as the company will be working on Soccer 2007 and Driving 2007. Oh and all these re-releases cost full price.

So maybe we should count ourselves lucky that we don't have to cough up another $xxx every year for a re-worked game fixing some bugs and getting the all new 'talking MacArthur' with realistic eye movement

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Post #: 11
RE: Put your money where your mouth is - 2/8/2006 11:07:23 AM   
bbbf

 

Posts: 493
Joined: 7/16/2000
From: Hobart, Tasmania, Australia
Status: offline 		Bill's bang on the money. How many software companies support their products more than 12 months?

And how many games come out of the box perfect? Not bloody many. Most have no replayability either.

Add to the fact that you are trying to sell something to the most anal retentive, nit picking audience who have widely varying opinions on just about every single thing possible and I'm surprised anyone is game enough to produce games for us at all!

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Robert Lee

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Post #: 12
RE: Put your money where your mouth is - 2/8/2006 12:01:07 PM   
Sneer


Posts: 2654
Joined: 10/29/2003
Status: offline 		I will not join such action
I have my money taken back even if I'm furious from time to time on game engine
I doubt patches will solve game engine problems
maybe sometimes when they decide to use it for another title - i.e Med they will spend more time on it

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Post #: 13
RE: Put your money where your mouth is - 2/8/2006 12:04:35 PM   
Zakhal


Posts: 2494
Joined: 1/4/2001
From: Jyväskylä, Finland
Status: offline 		WITP problems will never be fixed. Theres a strong smell that the whole architecture of the game stinks. If thats true its nigh impossible to fix a game of this scale without rewriting it completely (after a lenghty study of why the architecture stinks).

Best they can do is patch the holes in the shiphull with chewing gum and hope for the best. WITP is just like one of those bridges built in the 20s that after a while broke down by themselves because the engineers never built enough support pillars for it. Not to forget the fans who wanted all the time to drive bigger and bigger trucks over it.

< Message edited by Zakhal -- 2/8/2006 12:10:59 PM >

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Post #: 14
RE: Put your money where your mouth is - 2/8/2006 1:16:37 PM   
JeffroK


Posts: 6391
Joined: 1/26/2005
Status: offline 		I wont boycott East Front because I'm not interested in that area!

WITP has been a great game, in both its vanilla version and CHS/Andrews Map.

I dont fiddle too much with it, so am constantly amazed at those who complain about it while playing some amatuer homemade version, there are very few games which allow any editing to the extent you can in WITP.

It rate 8/10, yep, it could be better.

PS, I expected the WPO game to have learned from WITP and been a "generation" in front. It isnt, and given the slowness of movement and lack of aircraft it isnt a patch on WITP.

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Post #: 15
RE: Put your money where your mouth is - 2/8/2006 1:52:30 PM   
Gen.Hoepner


Posts: 3645
Joined: 9/4/2001
From: italy
Status: offline 		I do not and will not support any boycott cause. Matrix has given me, in the past 4 years,the best gaming experience i've ever had. WITP has many problems, but still remains the only game that gives me the feeling i look for when i sit in front of my pc. Nothing can compare to it imho.

I'll pre-order the East front title and i'll keep on giving my few bucks to these great guys.

Quite sorry to hear that part of this community is so unhappy about our game

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Post #: 16
RE: Put your money where your mouth is - 2/8/2006 2:18:47 PM   
Oleg Mastruko


Posts: 4921
Joined: 10/21/2000
Status: offline 		You guys are totally crazy. Not only will I not support any boycott.... actually a 2by3 representative is hereby authorised to come to my door and ask for another 200 bucks and I will readily give it to him* - that is how much I feel I owe to the company for bringing this game to the market, and for all the enjoyment I "sqeezed" outta this game so far (and am continuing to squeeze on a daily basis).

* Easy for me to say this since I live at least some thousand miles away from nearest "authorised 2by3 person" LOL

But it's the thought that matters.

O.

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Post #: 17
RE: Put your money where your mouth is - 2/8/2006 2:24:30 PM   
Zecke


Posts: 1330
Joined: 1/15/2005
From: Hitoeton
Status: offline 		I will support every game that matrix produce, by buying it all of them,, there are great games,, more than that WTIP is the best game ever made

(in reply to Oleg Mastruko)
Post #: 18
RE: Put your money where your mouth is - 2/8/2006 2:32:27 PM   
medicff

 

Posts: 710
Joined: 9/11/2004
From: WPB, Florida
Status: offline 		I too disagree, matrix has been far more supportive than other software companies who would have dropped the support as too much trouble. I am waiting for East Front but will continue WITP (my favorite theatre) even after that comes out. Maybe with encouragement and agree to put up $$ we can see WITP 2 I have gotten far more than $80 worth on this game compared to others.

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Post #: 19
RE: Put your money where your mouth is - 2/8/2006 2:35:28 PM   
Raverdave


Posts: 6520
Joined: 2/8/2002
From: Melb. Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Oleg Mastruko

actually a 2by3 representative is hereby authorised to come to my door and ask for another 200 bucks and I will readily give it to him



I have been "authorised". Expect me in a few days time to collect the $200 (plus the full airfare from Oz) if you hear at knock at the door at oh say around 7 pm...that will be me.....if on the other hand you hear a knock at your door at 3am....thats not me so run !

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Never argue with an idiot, he will only drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

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Post #: 20
RE: Put your money where your mouth is - 2/8/2006 2:39:20 PM   
Speedysteve

 

Posts: 15998
Joined: 9/11/2001
From: Reading, England
Status: offline 		Excellent. I'll be there at 6.59 to grab the money before you Raver

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Post #: 21
RE: Put your money where your mouth is - 2/8/2006 2:40:54 PM   
Hard Sarge


Posts: 22741
Joined: 10/1/2000
From: garfield hts ohio usa
Status: offline 		I not sure if I even want to reply to this one

boycot them ? I would rather try and help them get the games the way we want them to be then complain and say no more

LOL that kind of Alt, and Matrix would not even be here, (we not going to buy another game until Pacwar is fixed)

(besides, I need them working and happy, so my projects get done :)




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Post #: 22
RE: Put your money where your mouth is - 2/8/2006 2:44:00 PM   
Speedysteve

 

Posts: 15998
Joined: 9/11/2001
From: Reading, England
Status: offline 		I know Sarge. It's crazy as I said above

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Post #: 23
RE: Put your money where your mouth is - 2/8/2006 2:45:27 PM   
Bobthehatchit


Posts: 1478
Joined: 4/27/2003
From: GREAT BRITAIN
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Raverdave

Sorry, but I cannot sit by and simply watch 2by3 have their name dragged through the mud. IMHO I have had great value for money from playing WiTP (and UV for that matter). YES there are still some issues but if you really want to get down to brass tacks there are even some issues STILL with Harpoon (as way of example). All of you just think back....has there ever been a game that has not had some points that could do with a change? And to be fair 2by3 have never abandoned WiTP....they have brought out patches in response to customers demands and have committed to continue to do so.

Matrix will STILL get my gaming $.


Seconded.

If you don't like it don't play it.

Got a shelf load of games i don't play anymore for various reasons.

But i don't feel the need to moan either.


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Wanted: ISDII Low millage in Imperial gray.


Just my 2 pence worth.
I might not be right.
Hell I am probaby wrong.
But thats my opinion for what its worth!

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Post #: 24
RE: Put your money where your mouth is - 2/8/2006 2:53:58 PM   
mogami


Posts: 12789
Joined: 8/23/2000
From: You can't get here from there
Status: offline 		Hi, If the game and company makes you that unhappy I woulld go find something else to occupy myself with. It's your money and your time. I like WITP. I was not a big Pacific theme person before UV. (I like ACW and East Front/ETO history more then Pacific history ) I've learned a lot from the game and had fun playing it. I still look forward to that next PBEM turn.
I don't own a single computer game without a bug or an issue with how the designer interpeted something. I rarely see anything on TV I agree 100 percent with. Managers and coaches call plays I don't like. Some places cut pizza into squares.

I boycott life...........(no I don't)

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Post #: 25
RE: Put your money where your mouth is - 2/8/2006 3:23:10 PM   
TulliusDetritus


Posts: 5521
Joined: 4/1/2004
From: The Zone™
Status: offline 		Mike Scholl, sorry, but I will be buying WIE.

Said this, customers rule, so I respect your point of view

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Post #: 26
RE: Put your money where your mouth is - 2/8/2006 3:31:28 PM   
Hoplosternum


Posts: 690
Joined: 6/12/2002
From: Romford, England
Status: offline 		No boycott here

I have spent thousands of hours on WitP (and UV before it). For me it is a classic along with MOO, MOM, Civ and Fantasy General. I had issues with parts of those games too but the positives far outweigh the negatives.

I am surprised that there are still such naysayers loitering around the forum We all like a good moan about parts of the game from time to time. We are grognards after all But whats the point of hanging around months / years after you have decided the game is not for you I just don't buy the argument it's all for the hobby / WitPs good

I am with Oleg on this one. I've had more than my moneys worth from WitP. But as Speedy is threatening to come around to collect and does not live all that far away I'll donate by buying more games from them

I am looking forward to the new East Front game and will certainly buy it. And WitP 2 Well I can dream

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Allies vs Belphegor Jul 43 2.5:2.5 in CVs
Allies vs Drex Mar 43 0.5:3 down in CVs
Japan vs LtFghtr Jun 42 3:2 down in CVs
Allies vs LtFghtr Mar 42 0:1 down in CVs
(SEAC, China) in 3v3 Apr 42
Allies vs Mogami Mar 42 0:1 down in CVs

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Post #: 27
RE: Put your money where your mouth is - 2/8/2006 3:56:45 PM   
BaitBoy

 

Posts: 227
Joined: 8/6/2004
Status: offline 		The only reason that I might not buy WIE game is if I am spending too much time playing WitP. Dollar for hour this is the best gaming purchase I have ever made.

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Post #: 28
RE: Put your money where your mouth is - 2/8/2006 4:08:13 PM   
Apollo11


Posts: 24082
Joined: 6/7/2001
From: Zagreb, Croatia
Status: offline 		Hi all,

Boycott!?!?!

Boycott what? The best wargame there is?


What other wargame(s) we all played and loved so much recently in past few years that we have UV & WitP?


Sure there are problems but in time they will be fixed (I am sure - just look at what Mike - he is our true hero - did and continue to do with SP)... also what other game is bug free and what other game had so many patches and so many user requested features integrated after release... IMHO UV & WitP are true gems in vast range of mediocre games that swamped the marked in past years and no other company other than Matrix/2By3 had done so much for users...


Leo "Apollo11"


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P: UV, WitP, WitP-AE

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Post #: 29
RE: Put your money where your mouth is - 2/8/2006 4:09:05 PM   
wworld7


Posts: 1727
Joined: 2/25/2003
From: The Nutmeg State
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Raverdave

Sorry, but I cannot sit by and simply watch 2by3 have their name dragged through the mud. IMHO I have had great value for money from playing WiTP (and UV for that matter). YES there are still some issues but if you really want to get down to brass tacks there are even some issues STILL with Harpoon (as way of example). All of you just think back....has there ever been a game that has not had some points that could do with a change? And to be fair 2by3 have never abandoned WiTP....they have brought out patches in response to customers demands and have committed to continue to do so.

Matrix will STILL get my gaming $.


Is WITP perfect no.
Is it fun YES!
Do I go crazy at times over shall we just say bugs, design features and the like, yes.

But it has been and will contine to be a fantasic value ($/hours played).

Matrix/2*3 have given WITP MORE support than many other companies give other games.

My advice "which not enough people seem to support" is stop asking for changes and let them concentrate on fixing bugs. Short of a WITP II we will never get both (bugs fixed and additional CHANGES)

My two cents.

Flipper

(in reply to Raverdave)
Post #: 30
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