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Protect Our Grammar!!!!! - 1/28/2006 4:08:25 PM   
malthaussen

 

Posts: 112
Joined: 1/11/2006
Status: offline 		Gentlemen, ladies, please.

When a country establishes a protectorate with another, it is PROTECTING them. The verb is "to protect." Not protectoratize, protectorating, or some other corruption of the English language. The country who is protecting the protectorate is its PROTECTOR.

I know many of us do not have English as our first language. But for those of us who do: use it, please.

-- Mal

_____________________________

"Of two choices, I always take the third."
Post #: 1
RE: Protect Our Grammar!!!!! - 1/28/2006 6:33:07 PM   
garoco

 

Posts: 202
Joined: 8/20/2005
Status: offline 		Good point

(in reply to malthaussen)
Post #: 2
RE: Protect Our Grammar!!!!! - 1/28/2006 11:02:33 PM   
Fänrik Stål


Posts: 108
Joined: 1/4/2006
From: Sweden
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: malthaussen

Gentlemen, ladies, please.

When a country establishes a protectorate with another, it is PROTECTING them. The verb is "to protect." Not protectoratize, protectorating, or some other corruption of the English language. The country who is protecting the protectorate is its PROTECTOR.

I know many of us do not have English as our first language. But for those of us who do: use it, please.

-- Mal


But there can actually be a point in using forum/game specific terms instead of correct english. "To protect" someone is not always the same as to turn someone into a protectorate. "I decided to protectorate Denmark" is more precise than "I decided to protect Denmark", and there is no chance someone familiar to the game CoG will misinterpret it. For example, over at the Paradox (Europa Universalis and so on) forums the verb "to dow" has been in use for several years and everyone knows exactly what it means. "I dowed the Holy Roman Empire" is shorter than "I declared war on the Holy Roman Empire". Dow comes from Declaration Of War.

(in reply to malthaussen)
Post #: 3
RE: Protect Our Grammar!!!!! - 1/29/2006 7:11:13 AM   
TexHorns

 

Posts: 243
Joined: 10/7/2005
Status: offline 		Come on mal, we American's have been butchering the english language for a couple hundred years now. Why would we want to give up such a time honored tradition? Heck, in Texas we have gone so far as to actually butcher the English language to the point that we beleive we have invented a NEW language. Besides where would the English language be if we didn't invent new words?

_____________________________

We're gonna dance with who brung us.

(in reply to malthaussen)
Post #: 4
RE: Protect Our Grammar!!!!! - 1/30/2006 3:55:03 AM   
1LTRambo


Posts: 313
Joined: 8/31/2004
Status: offline 		Absolutely. BTW (by the way) it is MHO (my humble opinion) that acronyms and GT (gaming termanology) are not PE (proper english) anyway but is part of FS (forum speach). So just LYHO (laugh your head off) as you read some of the crazyness that goes on here.

(in reply to TexHorns)
Post #: 5
RE: Protect Our Grammar!!!!! - 1/30/2006 2:52:21 PM   
malthaussen

 

Posts: 112
Joined: 1/11/2006
Status: offline 		ROTFLMFA.

(Bangs shoe on table)

Acronyms are one thing. They are used, generally, to make it quicker and easier to say something frequently said, as with DoW (although I've always wondered why that particular acronym wasn't just DW: i.e., I Declared War on Rome, not I Declaration Of War on Rome.:)). Unless, of course, you are in the government or military, in which case they are used to obfuscate.

"Protectorate" as a verb is, however, longer than "Protect." So it's inefficent language-mutilation.:) However, as Fanrik Stal points out, it is possibly less ambiguous, so I guess I'll have to allow it.

In general, I have nothing against inventing a term when one is necessary. I really hate it, though, when some newspeak term (and one that is grammatically incorrect) is used in place of an already perfectly servicable word. e.g., "normalcy" for "normality."

-- Mal

_____________________________

"Of two choices, I always take the third."

(in reply to 1LTRambo)
Post #: 6
RE: Protect Our Grammar!!!!! - 1/30/2006 6:46:59 PM   
jimwinsor


Posts: 1076
Joined: 11/21/2005
Status: offline
quote:

In general, I have nothing against inventing a term when one is necessary. I really hate it, though, when some newspeak term (and one that is grammatically incorrect) is used in place of an already perfectly servicable word. e.g., "normalcy" for "normality."


Don't blame the media for "normalcy," blame president Warren G. Harding:

http://www.cjr.org/tools/lc/normalcy.asp

_____________________________

Streaming as "Grognerd" at https://www.twitch.tv/grognerd

(in reply to malthaussen)
Post #: 7
RE: Protect Our Grammar!!!!! - 1/30/2006 10:24:53 PM   
ggallagher

 

Posts: 114
Joined: 5/17/2002
From: Southern California
Status: offline 		Protect Our Grammar!!!!!


......not to forget our Grandpa!!!!!!

_____________________________


(in reply to jimwinsor)
Post #: 8
RE: Protect Our Grammar!!!!! - 2/2/2006 7:37:09 PM   
malthaussen

 

Posts: 112
Joined: 1/11/2006
Status: offline 		Jim: I wasn't blaming the media for "normalcy." I knew it was Harding's fault.

I *do* blame the media (sportscasters) for the odd use of "for" when they mean "of" or "in." e.g., "The batter is two for four." Obviously, they mean he has two hits in four attempts, not that he made two attempts and had four hits! They should either say "four [attempts] for two [successes]," or "two [successes] in four [tries]." And to think these people make six figure salaries for butchering the language.

Oh, and BTW all, as long as I'm ranting: the verb form of "seige" is "to besiege," not "to seige."

-- Mal

< Message edited by malthaussen -- 2/2/2006 8:31:18 PM >

_____________________________

"Of two choices, I always take the third."

(in reply to jimwinsor)
Post #: 9
RE: Protect Our Grammar!!!!! - 2/3/2006 2:54:22 AM   
canuck64


Posts: 233
Joined: 8/25/2004
Status: offline 		Malthaussen

I tried at one time to correct grammatical issues when i saw them-then I moved to the southeast. When english is actually spoken here, it's butchered to the hilt.
That, in conjunction with the internet, spellcheck and attention spans that cannot handle a post longer than 7 or 8 lines, and I've since given up.
Good luck-I wish you success in your efforts

(in reply to malthaussen)
Post #: 10
RE: Protect Our Grammar!!!!! - 2/3/2006 8:38:00 PM   
malthaussen

 

Posts: 112
Joined: 1/11/2006
Status: offline 		I have a friend from Acadia, and he always blames his origins when he butchers the English language. Or the French language, if it comes to that.:)

It's even worse in the southeast US. There, certain grammatical errors such as "between you and I" are taught in school!

Nevertheless, I boldly stride on, fully aware of the beam in my own eye (I always thought that was a strange image), contrasted with the motes in the eyes of others.

-- Mal

_____________________________

"Of two choices, I always take the third."

(in reply to canuck64)
Post #: 11
RE: Protect Our Grammar!!!!! - 2/8/2006 10:48:47 PM   
Mr. Z


Posts: 1048
Joined: 3/24/2005
Status: offline 		I think the difficulty here is coming up with a term that means "to convert a conquered province into a protectorate". "Make protected" is one option, I suppose. I've tried to always refer to it as "convert to a protectorate", though personally I'm happy to let the players and fans refer to it as they see fit Nothing wrong with a good debate.

(in reply to malthaussen)
Post #: 12
RE: Protect Our Grammar!!!!! - 2/8/2006 11:40:09 PM   
rich12545

 

Posts: 1705
Joined: 10/31/2000
From: Palouse, WA
Status: offline 		Personally I think it takes a lot of nerve for someone who is brand new to a forum to chastise others for questionable word usage. English (or anything else for that matter) is simply not taught very well in the schools anymore and many people don't have the advantage of an advanced education. Trying to embarass others for no good reason shows poor taste.

I'm not trying to start a flame war on the forum, so if anyone wishes to comment, please do so by pm.

(in reply to Mr. Z)
Post #: 13
RE: Protect Our Grammar!!!!! - 2/9/2006 6:52:16 AM   
Suvoroff

 

Posts: 13
Joined: 2/21/2005
From: In Bremerton, WA
Status: offline 		I agree entirely with Malthaussen. The English language is a beautiful thing, when it is used correctly. What is more, I say that tolerating bad English only leads to more bad English.

Yours,
James D. Gray

(in reply to malthaussen)
Post #: 14
RE: Protect Our Grammar!!!!! - 2/9/2006 7:36:32 AM   
rich12545

 

Posts: 1705
Joined: 10/31/2000
From: Palouse, WA
Status: offline 		You can say that. What is more, I agree. However, your statement has nothing to do with the question at hand. Malthaussen was not criticizing anyone for using poor grammar or improper use of the English language, but for the incorrect use of certain words. Yet he might be incorrect in his usage since the proper words apply more to the game than the English language.

What I said was he had a lot of nerve for coming on a forum as a new member and, right away, ragging on people for questionable word usage. That sort of thing is simply in poor taste, especially since he might not be correct insofar as it applies to the game. And, well, he comes across as being so sanctimonious about it.

As much as you, Malthaussen, and I appreciate the English language, this is not the place to put others down just because they didn't have the advantage of a good English teacher.

(in reply to Suvoroff)
Post #: 15
RE: Protect Our Grammar!!!!! - 2/10/2006 12:02:42 AM   
TexHorns

 

Posts: 243
Joined: 10/7/2005
Status: offline 		I can't use education as an excuse as I have a Master's degree. My only excuse is being a Texan. I think the only thing out of line in this debate is anyone taking either sides arguement seriously. Language is so regionalized that I do not believe that "proper English" even exists. Even in England itself there are regional variances on language. So everyone step back, breathe in a dose of reality and get on with the game.

_____________________________

We're gonna dance with who brung us.

(in reply to rich12545)
Post #: 16
RE: Protect Our Grammar!!!!! - 2/10/2006 6:39:07 PM   
carnifex


Posts: 1295
Joined: 7/1/2002
From: Latitude 40° 48' 43N Longtitude 74° 7' 29W
Status: offline 		damn rich, why so p_rickly? is malthousen criticizing you personally? no one else took any offense before you jumped into this thread and started slamming malt, so maybe you need to relax and not take offense so easily

i think it shows a lot of nerve to bring up someones post count. like you are the arbiter of how many posts one needs to have to express an opinion?

(in reply to TexHorns)
Post #: 17
RE: Protect Our Grammar!!!!! - 2/10/2006 8:41:16 PM   
rich12545

 

Posts: 1705
Joined: 10/31/2000
From: Palouse, WA
Status: offline 		Why? Well, I guess it just hit a nerve. Here comes a brand new member using some holier-than-thou attitude putting down others who maybe used a word or two incorrectly. I think the reason I posted had more to do with his condescending attitude than the number of his posts. But both were a factor.

You seem to be quick to give malthaussen the right to post an opinion but want to deny that same right to me. I didn't see you telling him to relax. That speaks volumes about you and your prejudices.

I did mention that I didn't want to start a flame war on this forum and asked anyone who wishes to comment to send me a pm. I guess you have a problem with reading comprehension or decided to start a flame war anyway. So I mention it again. If you have a problem with my post, send me a pm and we can discuss it.

(in reply to carnifex)
Post #: 18
RE: Protect Our Grammar!!!!! - 2/10/2006 10:21:40 PM   
carnifex


Posts: 1295
Joined: 7/1/2002
From: Latitude 40° 48' 43N Longtitude 74° 7' 29W
Status: offline 		your passive-aggressive method is so weak that it brings dishonor upon your school and your master.

i can't continue to fight one so undisciplined and still retain honor.

however, i am glad you admit the fault is yours. it is the first step. one day you will have the self-control to be a true interweb master, but for now you must struggle with your demon nerve on your own.








(in reply to rich12545)
Post #: 19
RE: Protect Our Grammar!!!!! - 2/10/2006 10:27:32 PM   
rich12545

 

Posts: 1705
Joined: 10/31/2000
From: Palouse, WA
Status: offline 		This has to be one of the dumbest posts I've ever seen. I don't know if you're ignorant or just plain stupid. But I do know one thing. You either lack reading comprehension or don't know how to use a pm.

(in reply to carnifex)
Post #: 20
RE: Protect Our Grammar!!!!! - 2/10/2006 10:42:30 PM   
carnifex


Posts: 1295
Joined: 7/1/2002
From: Latitude 40° 48' 43N Longtitude 74° 7' 29W
Status: offline 		I don't know how to use a PM.

Also, Malthaussen told me to tell you not to start sentences with "But". It's not proper grammar.

< Message edited by carnifex -- 2/10/2006 10:45:56 PM >

(in reply to rich12545)
Post #: 21
RE: Protect Our Grammar!!!!! - 2/10/2006 10:46:23 PM   
rich12545

 

Posts: 1705
Joined: 10/31/2000
From: Palouse, WA
Status: offline 		PM stands for private message. If you want to continue this conversation, go to address book above, click on pm and it then is self explanatory.

(in reply to carnifex)
Post #: 22
RE: Protect Our Grammar!!!!! - 2/10/2006 10:47:17 PM   
carnifex


Posts: 1295
Joined: 7/1/2002
From: Latitude 40° 48' 43N Longtitude 74° 7' 29W
Status: offline 		Seems like a lot of trouble to tell you something I can tell you right here, no?

(in reply to rich12545)
Post #: 23
RE: Protect Our Grammar!!!!! - 2/10/2006 10:54:02 PM   
kev_uk

 

Posts: 288
Joined: 6/5/2004
From: South Wales, UK
Status: offline 		I think rich12545 should have PM'ed Mal and kept his foot out of this discussion *before* telling others he does not want a flame war. Pot, meet kettle.



(in reply to carnifex)
Post #: 24
RE: Protect Our Grammar!!!!! - 2/10/2006 10:59:51 PM   
rich12545

 

Posts: 1705
Joined: 10/31/2000
From: Palouse, WA
Status: offline 		LOL. Since Mal originally made his comments public instead of sending a pm to those he felt butchered the English language, I felt I had the same right. So, no, I don't believe pot meeeting kettle applies here.

(in reply to kev_uk)
Post #: 25
RE: Protect Our Grammar!!!!! - 2/10/2006 11:01:57 PM   
rich12545

 

Posts: 1705
Joined: 10/31/2000
From: Palouse, WA
Status: offline
quote:

Seems like a lot of trouble to tell you something I can tell you right here, no?


Uh, no. The idea is to not have a flame war on the company's forum.

(in reply to kev_uk)
Post #: 26
RE: Protect Our Grammar!!!!! - 2/10/2006 11:03:43 PM   
kev_uk

 

Posts: 288
Joined: 6/5/2004
From: South Wales, UK
Status: offline 		Yes but this thread has degenerated into a flame war from your post, whereas it seemed quite harmless originally...
Enough is enough I say,
Regards
Kevin

(in reply to rich12545)
Post #: 27
RE: Protect Our Grammar!!!!! - 2/10/2006 11:07:16 PM   
rich12545

 

Posts: 1705
Joined: 10/31/2000
From: Palouse, WA
Status: offline 		Yes, I agree. That's why, in my original post, I asked for any comments to be sent to me by pm. I was afraid this might happen. But still, I was appalled by the original post putting down others for a perceived lack of skill using English that I felt like writing.

(in reply to kev_uk)
Post #: 28
RE: Protect Our Grammar!!!!! - 2/10/2006 11:12:19 PM   
carnifex


Posts: 1295
Joined: 7/1/2002
From: Latitude 40° 48' 43N Longtitude 74° 7' 29W
Status: offline 		oh no don't worry rich Matrix doesn't care as long as you use the proper signage


(in reply to kev_uk)
Post #: 29
RE: Protect Our Grammar!!!!! - 2/10/2006 11:16:03 PM   
rich12545

 

Posts: 1705
Joined: 10/31/2000
From: Palouse, WA
Status: offline 		That's a good one.

But I know from personal experience that Matrix really does care.

(in reply to carnifex)
Post #: 30
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