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Steel Panthers Civil War Mod technical questions - 2/13/2006 9:10:14 PM   
DBoutwell

 

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Gentlemen,

As I have sought help from the Matrix guys on this issue, without receiving any response, I am asking the general community for assistance. Two things....First, I have tried for quite a while to figure out how to change the date inn the menu screen so that it correctly shows the date for the American Civil War. The century was easy to change from 19-- to 18 in the mech. exe file, using a hex editor. However, the decade (3- and 4-) has been a tough nut to crack, as it is in code (%d). I would love to hear from any of you tech. savy guys who have any ideas on how to fix this. It is related to my second issue. In the menu screen, I want the first release to show "version 1.0". However, the menu screen currently shows v7.1, as that was the current version of SPWAW that I began working on when I started this project. The fix is related to the fix for the other issue, as the version is shown in the mech. file as a series of %s and %d. It can't be that hard of a fix, as every time the version of SPWAW changes, someone has to change it in the mech. exe file.

Any ideas or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

David Boutwell
Post #: 1
RE: Steel Panthers Civil War Mod technical questions - 2/14/2006 10:55:35 AM   
m10bob


Posts: 8622
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From: Dismal Seepage Indiana
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Hi David..You are not being ignored, I believe you will get a response when somebody actually knows the answer.
IIRC, in the past, the "altered dates" have been simulated, rather than actually changed, (I.E.) an assumption that "43" means "53, etc..
Hang in there, the SP community has wanted the ACW for a long time, but apparently lacks the expertise or diligence to pursue it.
I would be willing to bet that the majority of the "original" SP crew was weaned on ACW history.

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RE: Steel Panthers Civil War Mod technical questions - 2/14/2006 3:34:55 PM   
FNG


Posts: 514
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From: Devizes, UK
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Without seeing the code I'd have to guess, but normal conventions have %s as a string and %d as a date... I would presume that these variables are being set elsewhere and called by the screen form.

Hope this helps.

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FNG
Our doubts are traitors, and make us lose the good we oft might win by fearing to attempt.

(in reply to m10bob)
Post #: 3
RE: Steel Panthers Civil War Mod technical questions - 2/15/2006 3:31:20 AM   
DBoutwell

 

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FNG, if you have a hex/text editor, go into the mech.exe file and find "next decade". The related code is in that vicinity. The 19--, as I said, was in text, so that was easy to change. I've not been so fortunate with the decades and year, which are variable. In a communication in the distant past, I saw that Tom Proudfoot, or one of the other guys at Matrix, had the fix, according to Mr. Heath, but I've personally never gotten a response from those guys related to the fix, unfortunately. I'd love to hear more from you on this.

M10, I can tell you that I do have the diligence to see this through. In fact every day, or close to it, I work toward the completion of this project, though you don't hear about it. I just don't have the time during the school year to work on it, communicate frequently online, and meet "real world" responsibilities. At this time, I'm working on the lbm's, the encyclopedia text and the sound files. I think that I counted around 400 lbm's, not all of which I'll use, and around 600 sound files, which will be narrowed down to fewer ones in-game. I'm working on an image and sound library, so that I know what each sound and lbm is, and where it is. And, I'm compiling all of my research data, so that I can condense it into succinct encyclopedia files.

As I get tired of working on one thing, and it does get tiring, I switch over to something else. I think that I have changed about 75% of the terrain files, and most of them are done down to z2, I think.

I still have a bunch of tweaking to do on the oob's, and some major adjustments to make to this or that, I'm sure. But, I want to finish the things that I've mentioned, first.

Oh, yes...When the game starts up, it goes straight to themenu screen, bypassing the intro. movie. I'd like to figure out how to get that back in, so that I can create a Civil War intro. movie with some good reenactment footage and some appropriate music. The menu screen already has music, but I'd just like to do that nice beginning touch.

As far as the assumed date goes, I'd really like this mod. not to look like a mod. So, if I can avoid those situations where one has to ignore those anachronisms, I'd like to do so.

Regards,

David Boutwell

(in reply to FNG)
Post #: 4
RE: Steel Panthers Civil War Mod technical questions - 2/15/2006 6:15:04 AM   
Goblin


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From: Erie,Pa. USA
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David,

I think Wild Bill knows how to change the dates? That might be for scenarios only though, I do not recall.



Goblin

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RE: Steel Panthers Civil War Mod technical questions - 2/15/2006 10:28:31 AM   
FNG


Posts: 514
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From: Devizes, UK
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Hi David,

I know that I speak for many here when I say how much I am looking forward to your epic work seeing the light of day, and how impressed I am by your drive to get it complete. I have a few days off from work right now so I'll see if I can take a hack at the code and find where those pesky decades are getting set.

Keep up the great work!

(An English ACW fan)

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FNG
Our doubts are traitors, and make us lose the good we oft might win by fearing to attempt.

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Post #: 6
RE: Steel Panthers Civil War Mod technical questions - 2/15/2006 3:32:25 PM   
FNG


Posts: 514
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From: Devizes, UK
Status: offline
I've spent the morning looking at the code in a hex-editor, and am now trying to decompile the prog.... The data that you can see in the hex-editor is the static stuff - messages, REM comments, etc. Where you see a %s or %d is where a variable, that has been assigned elsewhere, is pulled in. It's slow going at the moment and I'm sure a friendly Matrix staffer would be able to point us at the correct routine fairly swiftly (more swiftly than me, at any rate ).

Thinking about decompilation, does anyone know if it is legal to attempt to decompile the mech.exe? Wouldn't want to inadvertently start an international incident....

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FNG
Our doubts are traitors, and make us lose the good we oft might win by fearing to attempt.

(in reply to FNG)
Post #: 7
RE: Steel Panthers Civil War Mod technical questions - 2/15/2006 5:54:34 PM   
FNG


Posts: 514
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From: Devizes, UK
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I've decompiled mech.exe but will have to admit defeat. Without either seeing the original source code or being able to step through it using a debugging tool of some sort, I cannot identify the routine where this variable is being set. As this must have been changed since SP3 (and there is still a *lot* of SP3 stuff in mech.exe ), I would hazard a guess that Mike Wood or one of the other developers involved with SPWaW should hopefully be able to pinpoint it.

_____________________________

FNG
Our doubts are traitors, and make us lose the good we oft might win by fearing to attempt.

(in reply to FNG)
Post #: 8
RE: Steel Panthers Civil War Mod technical questions - 2/17/2006 8:53:38 PM   
Wild Bill

 

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Yes, you can change the date for a scenario using Chlanda's SPWAW Edit but as far as a campaign, or fixed dates in the code, I would not know. It would be good to hear from Michael Wood on this one.

WB

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Wild Bill Wilder
Independent Game Consultant

(in reply to FNG)
Post #: 9
RE: Steel Panthers Civil War Mod technical questions - 2/18/2006 4:07:50 AM   
Captain Cruft


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Matrix won't help you to reverse engineer the code, no chance. Data files are another matter though. They have been generous there sometimes, though your basic silence would seem to be the default position on most things.

Anyway, I believe that you can change the date of a scenario using hex edit, Chlanda tools or whatever. However, there would seem to be a hard-coded range which it will not go beyond. It re-maps out of range dates to somewhere within the designated range. So even if you edit the relevant bytes in the scen to equal "1861" then the program will change that to "1931", or something.


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Post #: 10
RE: Steel Panthers Civil War Mod technical questions - 2/18/2006 4:20:45 AM   
DBoutwell

 

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Thanks for your efforts, FNG! I have made attempts to establish direct contact with the Matrix guys for over a year, now, but have personally never received an answer related to my question. The original group seemd to enjoy a much more direct line of communication with the people who could actually make something happen. Unfortunately that door had apparently closed before I became involved. By the time I started work, Sami Heimola (please forgive any incorrect spellong, Sami) had posted the original beta version of this game, and I was fortunate to gain access to the communications that Sami's group had with Matrix. I would love to have had the kind of access that they had. Since then, I have seen posts by David Heath related to the date fix, but have not communicated with him directly about it (directly meaning I email him with a question, and he emails me, or someone else at Matrix emails me, back with a response. I have sent ten or more requests for info. on this topic.). Though, I have gotten back one or two acknowledgements of receipt of emails to him, I have not gotten back any significant response.

FNG, you do not have to worry about whether or not this game will ever get finished, though, I'm sure most games don't take this long to finish. on the other hand, I have been playing a bit of Rome: Total War, and there are probably twenty different mods being developed off of this game. One thing that I have noticed is that a lot of people want to, and do, get involved in a project, but somewhere down the line, all of that involvement seems to implode on itself, and many of them never get finished. On this project, at least, there is 100% agreement on style, quality, direction, etc., by default. It is amusing to see people's forum post on sites related to mods. this game.."When is your expected release date for this mod?" as if the people working on these projects are working on them for a living, and can put eight-hour days into them every day, and know exactly when they are going to finish their projects. I do not have this answer, but I can assure you, I put plenty of time into it! Sometimes, I wonder how much of my life I've put into a game instead of doing other things around the house that need to be done, such as touching up dings in the wall paint left by the kids, replace tarnished knobs on the doors, all of the things that we all have to deal with.....But, this is what I do instead of play golf, cards, or go out drinking, at least that is how I rationalise it.....

Another thing that I learned from messing with Rome: Total War, and Battle for Middle Earth, is that the scenario/battle editor, and the map and unit editor for most games are just too damned difficult to figure out and use. SPCW, as is SPWAW, is very easy, which, I think, gives it an advantage over all other Civil War games out there, Sid Meiers and the Talonsoft games included. This will practically guarantee that every Civil War battle will be made into a scenario. The scale of the game 25 yards per hex and one company per unit, will guarantee that a whole series of scenarios will be constructed for every battle. Just think of the potential for Gettysburg, alone! Very exciting!

Best Regards,

David Boutwell


(in reply to Wild Bill)
Post #: 11
RE: Steel Panthers Civil War Mod technical questions - 2/18/2006 11:11:16 AM   
sami heimola

 

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From: kouvola finland
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Hi David. It's cool to see that your mod and dedication to "finish what we started" still lives. This shows that my idea about SPCW mod was not just "waste of time"... I suppose that many (at least US) players here would like to play this mod. What comes to that "communications that Sami's group had with Matrix. I would love to have had the kind of access that they had", I must admit that at first my team was very pleased to get Wild Bill's and some others (David Heath, Bob Wallace) attention and advices. We got even own subforum here. Then Matrix wanted us to make whole "19th Century mod". Such a small group that we had, it was impossible to do ... At least all research, collecting information and so on could lasts years! Later we noticed that Matrix would not allow any coder or another help because this mod was meant to be free, not for making money. Matrix was more interested in making own games that time.

I'm afraid that same things will happen to you (and anyone else modmakers here) and you will be "alone" until somebody friendly coder (Mike Wood?) want to help. But that's all they will do. Nothing more. David, is that year changing thing so important after all? Could you release mod without that? Btw, what is your situation right now (I mean do you have all units/graphics/oobs etc. already done)?

PS. Couple of screenshots could be nice...

Good luck for your mod progress,

Sami

(in reply to DBoutwell)
Post #: 12
RE: Steel Panthers Civil War Mod technical questions - 2/19/2006 2:26:43 AM   
DBoutwell

 

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Sami, it's nice to see that you are still around! One of the major problems that I see with a 19th century mod. (with the game constructed the way it is, now) is the situation with the unit icons, where you've got such a limited number of uniform colors. That works out ok in Steel Panthers, but if you want country's icons to look anything like the actual uniforms (and don't think people wouldn't or else the original grey-blue and pea green SP icons would have suited everyone just fine, and we would have never changed to the more accurate ones. So they were asking you to get a refrigerator in a cereal box from the start. Now, if you have the flexibility with the unit icons the you have with the equipment icons, that is another story. But, in that scenario, I would be happy to focus on one time period, such as the Civil War, where you could have early war uniforms, Zouaves, militia, sharpshooters, etc. Man, it is frustrating that Matrix won't just do this, instead of ressurecting the old Talonsoft stuff, that in my opinion doesn't even look as good. And, other companies are already putting out games like them. But, I am just me. It is only my opinion. But, I'd bet you many a guy would buy the game that I am talking about. Heck, they could do a Napoleanic War version, a British colonial war version, a Rev/French and Indian war version, and Franco-Prussian War version, a Crimean War version, you name it. But, again, just an opinion.....

The year thing is not so important, necessarily. But, the more of the obvious problems such as the year thing that I can fix, or bring to the attention of those who might want to take a look at it, the more credible the game will look, and maybe the more likely Matrix would be to help out (I can dream, can't I) But, if people already know that the problem is there, and that I've done everything that I can to fix it, then they can't complain.

About the screenshot thing, I tried long ago to do the screen shot thing and ran into numerous issues. First, Matrix only allows a certain amount of memory for the posts of each person, and I was tapped out, and had problems removing my old posts to make room for new ones. Second, the maximum size for a shot is way lower than what I needed for a good screen capture, and could never make a shot small enough to stay within the limit, and still see anything more than a few icons. It was very frustrating. Now, others have decided to do their own version, so I am less inclined than ever to do screen shots, as I don't have the energy nor desire to get into a "dance contest". When I am closer to being finished, I will set up a site for screen shots, etc.

One more thing. As I was working through a few sound files this morning... (I had originally removed any sound association with units retreating/popping smoke. Since I can't get rid of the smoke, which, if you don't pay attention to how it got there, actually works well in the game to simulate smoke on the battlefield in areas of intense gunfire, I at least didn't want to have the sound of a smoke grenade going off when a unit retreated. This morning, re-added the 02.wav with the sound of men panicking and retreating. Now when you end your turn, the units that retreat sound like they are retreating as well.) As I was saying, as I was working through a few sound files this morning by creating situations in which those sounds would occur, I began to wonder if the text color in the menu screens could be changed. The reason why I thought that, and am asking here, is that one of the menu screens is a light-colored map of Gettysburg, and the white text is somewhat difficult to see, although not impossible. I'd like to know if it is possible to select the text color for individual words in the mech file, so that words that or on menu screens with light or dark backgrounds can be seen equally well. Hey, that just tells you how far along on this project. When I'm worried about such stuff (the fine tuning) that tells you that I feel pretty confident about the more important stuff.

I could tell you that I'll try to keep you posted, but the s--- might hit the fan in the real world, as it often does (not really that bad, just too much work to do to spend time typing emails such as this), and you might not hear from me again for a while. But until then, if you keep asking questions and commenting, I'll keep replying. And, if anyone thinks that they have fixes, I'd love to hear from you.

Regards,

David Boutwell

(in reply to sami heimola)
Post #: 13
RE: Steel Panthers Civil War Mod technical questions - 2/19/2006 9:52:25 AM   
soldier

 

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Besides releasing Steel Panthers as a free game (Yipee) Matrix can seem like the iron curtain on occaisions when compared to some other companies. So good luck in your quest but I fear you will be on your own as far as official help goes
Panzer Leo made quite a few changes using a hex editor to make H2H. Not date or time but experience and morale levels, the numbers he punched in directly influence play on the field so he might be able to help but alas he has gone missing from forums
Panzer Leo come back !

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RE: Steel Panthers Civil War Mod technical questions - 2/21/2006 3:44:45 PM   
FNG


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From: Devizes, UK
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[Looking around for Mike Wood...]

Given the incredible amount of effort that David is putting into this mod, would it be possible to get an 'official' line from Matrix regarding the mech.exe issues that he is encountering?

If there is a reason why this cannot be done, would it be possible to share that reason with us? Even a "we can't do it" would give us closure

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Our doubts are traitors, and make us lose the good we oft might win by fearing to attempt.

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RE: Steel Panthers Civil War Mod technical questions - 2/27/2006 8:56:42 AM   
FNG


Posts: 514
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From: Devizes, UK
Status: offline
A quick bump to see if we can get an official response....

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FNG
Our doubts are traitors, and make us lose the good we oft might win by fearing to attempt.

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Post #: 16
RE: Steel Panthers Civil War Mod technical questions - 2/27/2006 9:10:06 AM   
Mike Wood


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From: Oakland, California
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Hello...

A third party altering the mech.exe file would be a violation of the law. So, cannot help.

Bye...

Michael Wood

quote:

ORIGINAL: FNG

[Looking around for Mike Wood...]

Given the incredible amount of effort that David is putting into this mod, would it be possible to get an 'official' line from Matrix regarding the mech.exe issues that he is encountering?

If there is a reason why this cannot be done, would it be possible to share that reason with us? Even a "we can't do it" would give us closure


(in reply to FNG)
Post #: 17
RE: Steel Panthers Civil War Mod technical questions - 2/27/2006 3:23:50 PM   
FNG


Posts: 514
Joined: 1/3/2002
From: Devizes, UK
Status: offline
Mike,

Thanks for the clarification.

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FNG
Our doubts are traitors, and make us lose the good we oft might win by fearing to attempt.

(in reply to Mike Wood)
Post #: 18
RE: Steel Panthers Civil War Mod technical questions - 2/27/2006 6:52:40 PM   
Alby


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So H2H is illegal?


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RE: Steel Panthers Civil War Mod technical questions - 2/28/2006 4:18:45 AM   
DBoutwell

 

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Well, then I guess that SPCW will never see the light of day, because, for one, the Confederate oob replaces the German oob, and in order to not have all German names, the names have to be changed, and the names are in the mech.exe file. That's just for starters (screen text will say stuff like Sgt. Kronenberg pops smoke......) If the mech. file can in no way be changed, a quality Civil War mod for Steel Panther just can't happen. I'm sorry if I got anyone's hopes up.

Regards,

David Boutwell

(in reply to Alby)
Post #: 20
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