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What next for ACW design?

 
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What next for ACW design? - 2/14/2006 1:43:42 PM   
TBKR

 

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Having spent the last six months developing design notes for a grand strategic simulation of the ACW incorporating political, economic, military, technological and social aspects of American society during the period 1860-1867, I have reached a point when I must ask what next?

I have spent that time researching military units, agricultural and manufactured goods, generals, the demographics of each county as at 1860, modelled these in Excel with various modifiers to simulate aspects of the 1860 economy, recruitment and other concepts that I feel are necessary create a detailed, statistics heavy ACW game that I have always wanted but have never found.

However I know nothing about game programming since it's way outside my core competencies. Any ideas about what my next steps should be?

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RE: What next for ACW design? - 2/14/2006 1:59:42 PM   
sterckxe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TBKR
However I know nothing about game programming since it's way outside my core competencies. Any ideas about what my next steps should be?


A number of options :

1) Create a rough paper version (map, units, rules) and see if your design is practical / robust / fun. If it is, you could conceivably create a VASSAL module for it which doesn't require programming knowledge and allows your design to be tested/played by others.

2) Try to get a team together to make your game. Here you will run into problems as you're essentially asking a programmer and/or graphics artist to donate their time for free to "your" game. This might work better if option 1) was already a reality and the game is a "hit"

3) Wait for Gary Grigsby et al to finish their ACW grand strategic game - should be sometime this year.

4) Take programming courses.

Greetz,

Eddy Sterckx

(in reply to TBKR)
Post #: 2
RE: What next for ACW design? - 2/15/2006 10:11:27 AM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: TBKR

Having spent the last six months developing design notes for a grand strategic simulation of the ACW incorporating political, economic, military, technological and social aspects of American society during the period 1860-1867, I have reached a point when I must ask what next?

I have spent that time researching military units, agricultural and manufactured goods, generals, the demographics of each county as at 1860, modelled these in Excel with various modifiers to simulate aspects of the 1860 economy, recruitment and other concepts that I feel are necessary create a detailed, statistics heavy ACW game that I have always wanted but have never found.

However I know nothing about game programming since it's way outside my core competencies. Any ideas about what my next steps should be?


If I were doing a simulation of the American civil war economies, I would probably want to go back to prior to 1860. Say, 1850 or at least 1856. That is because I would be concerned about the quality of the data available from that time period. Gaining a broader perspective on the quality of the data would provide reassurance if nothing else. I would expect it to affect some of the actual values for the crucial years 1860-1865, however.

For creating a historical war game the most critical decisions are choice of scale. The size of the map overall (territory included in the game) and the dimensions of each hex/square/area is one of the 3 major components. A second is the size of the combat units. And the third is time. These need to be appropriately balanced. Big units in small areas and little units in big areas are unbalanced. The time interval for each turn must also match the other two. Moving large units in daily turns is incorrect and so is moving numerous small units in bimonthly turns.

While you are working out the mix for the 3 primary components of the game, another crucial decision needs to be made: whether the game is going to be "I Go - You Go", "We Go", or some other system for regulating when players make decisions and those decisions are applied to the simulated world.

Your focus appears to be on the economics of the conflict. Does that mean that the combat aspects are going to be completely abstract? If not, then where does the emphasis lie? With the economics or with the combat systems?

If you are including logistics and political elements (international and intranational) the interactions of those systems with the primary systems (troop movements, combat, and economics) need to be worked out. Every time you add another system to the simulation, you will need to consider not only how it affects each of the other systems, but also whether there are any synergistic effects. For example, in the American civil war, the European powers (politcial system) did not have that big an effect on the war - compared to what they could have had if they had taken a stronger position in support of the Confedaracy. That would not only have affected the economics of the South, but could have magnified the effectiveness of the South's internal lines of communication, if the South had put more of their resources into their rail network. My point here is that at the design level, these things need to be worked out first, before trying to actually write the rules of play. The hardest portion of a set of rules to write are the interactions. It demands the author really understand what is being simulated.

Which usually results in you coming back to the philosophical point of what are you simulating, and why. This opening statement for the game - it may be only one sentence - should be the guideline for everything that comes after. You absolutely have to have this statement rock solid and crystal clear. It is going to have to withstand continuous attacks upon it as you develop the game. Other interests, your own and from other people, are going to push and pull you away from that definition. If there is any softness to it, your efforts will be dissipated with an enormous loss in productivity and consequently in energy and motivation.

To actually produce a product, you should list all the tasks that need to get done and assess the skills needed to do them. You then have to decide how to enlist the help of people to do the tasks that are outside of your current skill set, or broaden your skill set.

It's hard work, but if the motivation is there, it can be done. Good luck.

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Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

(in reply to TBKR)
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RE: What next for ACW design? - 2/15/2006 10:57:28 AM   
SemperAugustus

 

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What about foreign trade and intervention? There is decent book on historic economic statistics in BR Mitchell's "International Historical Statistics" series.

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RE: What next for ACW design? - 2/20/2006 11:15:55 PM   
waynev

 

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Where can i get more info on the mentioned Gary Grigsby ACW game you mention?

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RE: What next for ACW design? - 2/20/2006 11:31:35 PM   
sterckxe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: waynev
Where can i get more info on the mentioned Gary Grigsby ACW game you mention?


Search the forums in here

Seriously : It's not officially announced yet, but it's a dead certain given the amount of "hints" dropped in these forums.

First mention of it was here : http://www.2by3games.com/devjournal/journal20041109.html

Greetz,

Eddy Sterckx

(in reply to waynev)
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RE: What next for ACW design? - 2/20/2006 11:47:34 PM   
waynev

 

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Thanks for the info.
I hope they finish this project as it sounds like what I have been looking for for years.
Any info on operational ACW games around or under developement would be appreciated.
ACW from Frank Hunter was an old favorite of mine wish it was still supported.

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RE: What next for ACW design? - 2/20/2006 11:55:34 PM   
sterckxe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: waynev

Thanks for the info.
I hope they finish this project as it sounds like what I have been looking for for years.
Any info on operational ACW games around or under developement would be appreciated.
ACW from Frank Hunter was an old favorite of mine wish it was still supported.


Ok - this one definitely belongs in the rumour category - there's a rumour that after Mr. Hunter finishes with Black Powder Wars and Guns of August there's a possibility that an "American Civil War - From Sumter to Appomatox II" might be considered. Strategic level ACW that one.

Operational level : well, the old BattleGround ACW games are getting re-edited right here at Matrix Games. Check-out :

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tt.asp?forumid=227

And I hope the admins here won't mind a plug for a "competitor"

http://www.madminutegames.com/ - their next game (Take Command : 2nd Manassas) is supposed to be out in April

Greetz,

Eddy Sterckx


(in reply to waynev)
Post #: 8
RE: What next for ACW design? - 2/21/2006 1:16:02 AM   
waynev

 

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I have played some of the single battle games but am really looking for total campaign leading north or south through the entire historic period.

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RE: What next for ACW design? - 2/21/2006 8:39:46 AM   
sterckxe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: waynev
I have played some of the single battle games but am really looking for total campaign leading north or south through the entire historic period.


You're gonna have a blast playing Gary Grigsby's ACW then - just be a bit patient, should be out before the end of the year.

Greetz,

Eddy Sterckx

(in reply to waynev)
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RE: What next for ACW design? - 2/22/2006 12:24:15 AM   
waynev

 

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Thanks again for all the info.
Do you have any idea if it will be based on the World at War engine or will it be a completely new project?
Also wondering if you know anything about a Frank Hunter sequel to Sumter to Appomattox?

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Post #: 11
RE: What next for ACW design? - 2/22/2006 9:37:56 AM   
sterckxe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: waynev
Do you have any idea if it will be based on the World at War engine or will it be a completely new project?


"based on the WaW engine" can mean just about anything :)

quote:

ORIGINAL: waynev
Also wondering if you know anything about a Frank Hunter sequel to Sumter to Appomattox?


Nope, but as Mr. Hunter is pretty tied up at the moment and GG ACW is about to be released shortly I don't think we'll see it in the near future - if ever.

Greetz,

Eddy Sterckx

(in reply to waynev)
Post #: 12
RE: What next for ACW design? - 2/25/2006 6:38:24 PM   
BlackVoid


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Please contact me: info1848@yahoo.com
We have an ACW game planned, maybe we can cooperate.



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RE: What next for ACW design? - 5/8/2006 1:09:44 AM   
Zap


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Its May, whats the word if any on the ACW. Based on WaW engine? Any more info on the specifics?

< Message edited by Zap -- 5/8/2006 1:10:01 AM >


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RE: What next for ACW design? - 5/8/2006 7:57:47 AM   
rhondabrwn


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quote:

ORIGINAL: waynev

I have played some of the single battle games but am really looking for total campaign leading north or south through the entire historic period.


They may not be the total war, but have you looked at the HPS "Campaign" series? (Campaign Shiloh, Campaign Gettysburg, and the Penninsula Campaign). While these games include single battle scenarios (a multitude of them), their real attraction is the Campaign game mode in which strategic choices are secretly made and then the campaigns play out accordingly over huge maps that allow endless alternative strategies and multiple battles. I've become totally addicted to this campaign approach. Currently trying out Campaign Waterloo, though I'm not a real Napoleonic expert (prefer ACW).

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