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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> Steel Panthers World At War & Mega Campaigns >> SP:WaW Scenarios/Campaigns >> CAMPAIGNS

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CAMPAIGNS - 2/26/2006 2:53:28 PM

SECTION31

Posts: 21
Joined: 2/28/2004
From: LEICESTER, ENGLAND
Status: offline

Hello guys! I have been playing PBeM scenarios with a friend of mine for some time now, steadily working through the list of ready made scenarios that come with the game. As there are loads of these � with many extra ones to download � we will be playing for quite some years to come.
What I would like to start doing is to play some of the built in campaign games against the AI � (as I understand that campaigns are not suitable to play by email, which is a shame � correct?). However, is there anywhere where I could get some suggestions on how to create my initial core force? There are many questions; do I spend all my points at the beginning?, what mix of forces do a chose?, etc, etc! It would be nice to have to have some more experienced players suggest some guidelines so that I can get the best out of the game.
If there is nothing in writing like this at present could someone recommend which campaign would be a good stating point for a beginner? What about �preparing the way�? If this one is a good choice maybe one or two of you veterans would suggest a starting core force for me?
I hope I�m not asking too much here but I do love this game and I would like to take it to the next level.
Thanks guys!

Post #: 1

RE: CAMPAIGNS - 2/26/2006 3:29:13 PM

FlashfyreSP

Posts: 1193
Joined: 7/6/2002
From: Combat Information Center
Status: offline

Creating a core force is not as complicated as it may sound, but there are some things to keep in mind:
1. Spend all your Purchase Points. If you don't, you won't keep them, nor will you get them later on. Each battle may, or may not, have Support Points available for you to buy Auxiliary Units, depending on what the campaign designer decided.
2. Follow the recommendations provided by the designer. If he suggests an appropriate core force, it's because he probably designed the various battles with this force in mind. Using a force other than that intended may result in frustration, either because the battles are too easy (your force is too powerful) or too hard (your force is underpowered).
3. For most campaigns out there, combined arms forces are the standard. Pick a little infantry, a little armour, a little artillery...add some transports to move slow units around the map.
4. Always remember that your core force is the only force you are guranteed to have in each battle; you may have to fight an entire battle with no support, so your force needs to be kept in top shape. That means keeping them intact, because repairing/replacing units cost Build Points, and there might not be enough at the end of a battle to fix everything if you 'throw away' your core. This is what AUX units are for!
5. When you have the points, upgrade. Upgrading allows you to exchange an older model tank or infantry squad for a newer model; it costs points, but not as many as buying it new. Even upgrading only one tank may make a difference in the next battle, if it has better performance.

Over time, your core force will develop, gaining experience and morale boosts, and your leaders will improve their skills.

As a suggestion for a starting campaign, you could try the "Flesh and Steel" one, as it is a small campaign with a small core force (IIRC, only a platoon of tanks). Its USMC vs Japan; another good beginner's level campaign is the "Rommel to the Rescue" one. The "Balkans Crisis" (new update available at the Depot www.spwaw.com) campaign is also a small core force campaign, and good for the beginnner.

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Post #: 2

RE: CAMPAIGNS - 2/26/2006 4:05:34 PM

SECTION31

Posts: 21
Joined: 2/28/2004
From: LEICESTER, ENGLAND
Status: offline

Thanks mate. All that you have said seems to make sense. I'll have a crack at "Flesh and Steel" and see how I get on. Thanks again.

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Post #: 3

RE: CAMPAIGNS - 2/27/2006 4:35:41 PM

JEB Davis

Posts: 443
Joined: 12/27/2005
From: Michigan, U.T.B.
Status: offline

Flash,

When I started the Flesh & Steel camp using v8.403 with Programmer's Conventions applied, I could only buy one section of 2 M3 Stuarts (lowest cost models). This was true no matter which of the 4 possible options of true troop/rarity were selected.

This may be the reason I ended up with 2 draws, 1 minor vic, 1 major vic. (fought 4 battles total).

Would I be able to buy a whole platoon of M3's using v8.3 (or older)? As it was, I bought mortars and a sniper with the rest of the points.

SECTION31 welcome, you should enjoy Flesh & Steel camp.

JEB

< Message edited by JEB Davis -- 2/27/2006 4:36:32 PM >

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Post #: 4

RE: CAMPAIGNS - 2/27/2006 4:44:31 PM

FlashfyreSP

Posts: 1193
Joined: 7/6/2002
From: Combat Information Center
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JEB Davis
Now that you mention it, I think WIld Bill stated in his intor that you wouldn't have enough points to buy a complete platoon, that you should buy as many as you can (meaning taking the older models, I think

). I don't think this would be any different in 8.3, since I think that was the version he designed it under. I ran through the first battle, got a MV without losing a tank, but I think I only had three.

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Post #: 5

RE: CAMPAIGNS - 2/27/2006 5:28:11 PM

JEB Davis

Posts: 443
Joined: 12/27/2005
From: Michigan, U.T.B.
Status: offline

I guess I just don't know how you could get 3 tanks, even the cheapest.

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Post #: 6

RE: CAMPAIGNS - 2/27/2006 10:24:40 PM

FlashfyreSP

Posts: 1193
Joined: 7/6/2002
From: Combat Information Center
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You start with 415 points: knock off 150 for your HQ (Historical Ratings ON), leaving 265. A 5-tank platoon of M3s costs 220. In fact, I was able to buy 6 M3 tanks (bought part of the company formation).

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Post #: 7

RE: CAMPAIGNS - 2/27/2006 10:36:50 PM

JEB Davis

Posts: 443
Joined: 12/27/2005
From: Michigan, U.T.B.
Status: offline

Wow, I'll have to try that tonight, the battles would be cake with 6 tanks instead of 2. That's not the same thing I had. I'll respond or edit this message with what I find out.

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Post #: 8

RE: CAMPAIGNS - 2/28/2006 7:26:41 AM

JEB Davis

Posts: 443
Joined: 12/27/2005
From: Michigan, U.T.B.
Status: offline

Here's what I got. Re-installed 8.403. Bought units. Reapplied Oob editor v5 programmers conventions. Bought units again. Same result both times.

true troop on:
415
-209 US HQ
-186 for 3x M3 Stuarts (62 each)
20 left over

true troop off:
415
-190 US HQ
-186 for 3x M3 Stuarts (62 each)
39 left over

Historic Ratings button has no effect, manual says it's for morale and experience. I tried it to make sure.

I guess I was wrong about 2 tanks, but 3 is the most I can get.

EDITED: Ignore my above Historic Ratings statement, it's whacked.

< Message edited by JEB Davis -- 2/28/2006 5:22:10 PM >

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Post #: 9

RE: CAMPAIGNS - 2/28/2006 8:34:08 AM

FlashfyreSP

Posts: 1193
Joined: 7/6/2002
From: Combat Information Center
Status: offline

Not sure why your OOB isn't allowing more than three M3s with TRUE TROOP ON...or why your HQ is 209 points, when the unmodified HQ in 8.3 is 200.

Here's my purchases, with various settings:

8.403 using 8.3 unmodified OOBs
TRUE TROOP ON/RARITY OFF
HISTORIC RATINGS ON
415 Purchase points
US HQ - 150 points
M3 Stuart - list price 63 points
___Buy 6, total cost 264 points
TOTAL: 414, 1 left over

8.403 using 8.3 unmodified OOBs
TRUE TROOP OFF/RARITY OFF
HISTORIC RATINGS ON
415 Purchase points
US HQ - 200 points
M3 Stuart - list price 63 points
___Buy 3, total cost 189 points
TOTAL: 389, 26 left over

8.403 using 8.3 unmodified OOBs
TRUE TROOP ON/RARITY OFF
HISTORIC RATINGS OFF (70 TROOP QUALITY)
415 Purchase points
US HQ - 220 points
M3 Stuart - list price 63 points
___Buy 3, total cost 189 points
TOTAL: 409, 6 left over

8.403 using 8.3 unmodified OOBs
TRUE TROOP OFF/RARITY OFF
HISTORIC RATINGS OFF (70 TROOP QUALITY)
415 Purchase points
US HQ - 200 points
M3 Stuart - list price 63 points
___Buy 3, total cost 189 points
TOTAL: 389, 26 left over

To sum up:
TRUE TROOP OFF ignores any Experience rating; Unit Cost is what is in the OOB. TRUE TROOP ON adjusts the Unit Cost by a factor determined by the level of Experience set when the unit is purchased.

HISTORIC RATINGS ON sets the Experience levels for units based on the ratings listed on the Mech.exe. These ratings are then used by TRUE TROOP to adjust the costs. HISTORIC RATINGS OFF sets the Experience level at the value entered in the TROOP QUALITY setting, which is then used by TRUE TROOP to adjust the unit costs.

Using the v5 OOB Editor and applying the conventions, the cost of the M3 Stuart went from 63 to 62. The cost of the US HQ went from 200 to 190.

Looking at the Experience ratings:
8.403 - US Army 1943 Leader Experience 55/Troop Experience 50
The difference between 50/55 Experience and 70 Experience is why I was able to buy 6 Stuarts rather than 3. However, if your HISTORIC RATINGS are different, then you will see different results.

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Post #: 10

RE: CAMPAIGNS - 2/28/2006 5:21:02 PM

JEB Davis

Posts: 443
Joined: 12/27/2005
From: Michigan, U.T.B.
Status: offline

SECTION31: Sorry for all this, I didn't intend to hijack your thread and turn it into this discussion, but since I have...

Flash:

Thanks for all your effort.

(side note: b.t.w., it says designed for v7.1 in the intro)

We now both have the 3 tanks result for both our set-ups to agree on. I guess the US HQ 209 points of mine is strange, and I bow to your experience and I must be wrong on the HISTORIC RATING effect on the costs.

Do you think I should wipe SPWaW off and completely re-install to make sure my HISTORIC RATINGS are correct ?? I have ALWAYS played with this option ON.

Do I have it correct that the OOBs from 8.3 are unchanged in 8.403 UNTIL the programmer's conventions are performed ?

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Post #: 11

RE: CAMPAIGNS - 3/1/2006 12:01:36 AM

FlashfyreSP

Posts: 1193
Joined: 7/6/2002
From: Combat Information Center
Status: offline

JEB Davis

Not trying to 'dis' you or anything...just laying out how the system works.
Yes, the 8.3 OOBs are not affected by the 8.403 installation...only if you edit them and save the changes. Which is why I'm not sure why your HQ unit gained points when mine lost them after using the ProgCovention system.

And while we both have a 3-tank result, the normal playing settings are TRUE TROOP ON/HISTORIC RATINGS ON, which gave me the 6-tank result.

I don't think you need to reinstll the game..you might try reinstalling the 8.403 patch, just to put a clean mech.exe back in. But if the OOBs are modified, then the costs will be different anyhow, and that might be more of the problem.

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Post #: 12

RE: CAMPAIGNS - 3/1/2006 4:19:07 PM

JEB Davis

Posts: 443
Joined: 12/27/2005
From: Michigan, U.T.B.
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: FlashfyreSP

JEB Davis

Not trying to 'dis' you or anything...just laying out how the system works.

Flash,

Whoa!! I was in no way feeling "dissed". OOPS, I tend to forget that all caps means "shouting" online. I have to change my use of caps for "emphasis / just to draw eyes to something" !!!!

Your help has been much appreciated. I have seen some harsh words goin' on around the forums lately, and maybe we're all a bit "sensitive" at this time and trying hard not to offend. Don't worry about me !!!

Back on subject:

Just because it's the way I am, I uninstalled and started from scratch. v8.2 -> 8.3 -> 8.4 -> 8.403 (check F+S camp costs) -> apply v5 prog. conv. (check F+S camp costs). Guess what ? My numbers all match yours, got rid of my expensive HQ, and am back to "happy".

Thanks again.

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Post #: 13

RE: CAMPAIGNS - 3/1/2006 6:59:37 PM

FlashfyreSP

Posts: 1193
Joined: 7/6/2002
From: Combat Information Center
Status: offline

Yeah, JEB Davis, 'sensitivity' seems to be contagious now. I think I may be suffering a bit from it...

Glad to hear that your system is on track with mine; I was beginning to suspect something wrong in my layout. I believe the biggest issue with this whole thing is the EXP/MOR Ratings in the mech.exe file; they have been reduced from earlier versions of the game, which now has the effect of allowing more units to be purchased for campaigns than what the designers wanted.

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Post #: 14

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