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Play Action and Playbooks - 3/13/2006 2:53:25 AM   
CFL_FAN_7

 

Posts: 428
Joined: 1/13/2006
Status: offline 		3 questions:

Can you make your own playbook (def/off/both) and use it for any team you use?

Do all teams in a league have the same playbook?

When you amke or edit plays can you do a play action play?

Is there Play Action?
Post #: 1
RE: Play Action and Playbooks - 3/13/2006 3:00:17 AM   
nmleague

 

Posts: 2361
Joined: 1/14/2006
Status: offline 		1. Yes you can make playbooks, each playbook has the following.

offenive plays, defensive plays, kickoff, kickoff return, punt punt return

2. Each team is assigned a play book, in a league every team could have their own different play book if you can make them.

3. Yes you can make play action plays, I have put a number in the 1959 NFL playbook I did and they work pretty good.

(in reply to CFL_FAN_7)
Post #: 2
RE: Play Action and Playbooks - 3/13/2006 5:03:48 AM   
CFL_FAN_7

 

Posts: 428
Joined: 1/13/2006
Status: offline
quote:

2. Each team is assigned a play book, in a league every team could have their own different play book if you can make them.


Is every team's playbook different?

(in reply to nmleague)
Post #: 3
RE: Play Action and Playbooks - 3/13/2006 5:20:18 AM   
nmleague

 

Posts: 2361
Joined: 1/14/2006
Status: offline 		Not many playbooks came with the game, one 11 man I think. The only way teams have different playbooks is if you create a different playbook for each team. If every team in a league has "playbook X" as their playbook they will all use the some offenes and defenses.

(in reply to CFL_FAN_7)
Post #: 4
RE: Play Action and Playbooks - 3/13/2006 5:35:49 AM   
CFL_FAN_7

 

Posts: 428
Joined: 1/13/2006
Status: offline 		ok, thanks

(in reply to nmleague)
Post #: 5
RE: Play Action and Playbooks - 3/14/2006 4:11:16 AM   
maddad

 

Posts: 6
Joined: 10/6/2005
Status: offline 		I hope someone is working on some real nfl playbooks?

(in reply to CFL_FAN_7)
Post #: 6
RE: Play Action and Playbooks - 3/14/2006 9:51:38 PM   
Old Coach


Posts: 1414
Joined: 1/11/2005
From: Shepherdsville, Kentucky
Status: offline 		I've been working with the PDS for about three years and I'm still learning how to create realistic and effective plays. The fact is, no play edit system can completely mimic actual field action. I coached high school football in Georgia in the 70's and 80's when option offenses were king. My style is mash mouth, option football sprinkled with sprint out and bootleg passes. That's the system I coached and played in high school in the 60's. That's what I know the best. That's why there are several bootleg/sprintout passes in the
revised fun and gun playbook. I guess my point is, play around with the PDS and practice mode. Experiment and let your playbooks reflect football the way you think it's fun to play. And also realize that play editing systems in computer games will have flaws. I'll post playbooks as I finish them, but don't wait on others, be creative, have fun.
Some playbooks I'll post as time permits are:
1) Old Straight T
2) Old Double Wing
3) Wishbone
4) Splitback Veer
5) I Formation (with emphasize on option and roll out passing)

Through Matrix Games, FBMAX and other sites we can share ideas and plays and have fun!

Old Coach

(in reply to maddad)
Post #: 7
RE: Play Action and Playbooks - 3/14/2006 11:46:18 PM   
anash

 

Posts: 39
Joined: 11/4/2001
Status: offline 		Just wondering, have you done much with defense using the PDS?

If so, how are you getting around the limitations (no bump & run, cover TEs/backfield, shade under or deep, draw different zones, etc)?

Thanks Old Coach

(in reply to Old Coach)
Post #: 8
RE: Play Action and Playbooks - 3/16/2006 4:21:30 AM   
CFL_FAN_7

 

Posts: 428
Joined: 1/13/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Old Coach

I've been working with the PDS for about three years and I'm still learning how to create realistic and effective plays. The fact is, no play edit system can completely mimic actual field action. I coached high school football in Georgia in the 70's and 80's when option offenses were king. My style is mash mouth, option football sprinkled with sprint out and bootleg passes. That's the system I coached and played in high school in the 60's. That's what I know the best. That's why there are several bootleg/sprintout passes in the
revised fun and gun playbook. I guess my point is, play around with the PDS and practice mode. Experiment and let your playbooks reflect football the way you think it's fun to play. And also realize that play editing systems in computer games will have flaws. I'll post playbooks as I finish them, but don't wait on others, be creative, have fun.
Some playbooks I'll post as time permits are:
1) Old Straight T
2) Old Double Wing
3) Wishbone
4) Splitback Veer
5) I Formation (with emphasize on option and roll out passing)

Through Matrix Games, FBMAX and other sites we can share ideas and plays and have fun!

Old Coach


I see you're real old skool, can u do PA plays?


(in reply to Old Coach)
Post #: 9
RE: Play Action and Playbooks - 3/16/2006 9:31:42 PM   
Old Coach


Posts: 1414
Joined: 1/11/2005
From: Shepherdsville, Kentucky
Status: offline 		Very few of the pass plays I draw up are straight dropback passes. Most are play action featuring a fake to either back and then sprint action. The bootleg pass is my favorite. I'd be great if a future version of MaxFb could include the boot action where the QB hides the ball on his hip after making the play fake. I got pretty good at doing that back in the 60's. Bootleg was always a staple play when I coached.

I created 4 wide and shotgun plays for the stock playbook but they're not my expertise. When I can settle down from testing and get down to really playing football with this game, I'll really have fun making college style playbooks to share.

Old (Ancient?) Coach

(in reply to CFL_FAN_7)
Post #: 10
RE: Play Action and Playbooks - 3/17/2006 2:12:32 AM   
Magnum357

 

Posts: 613
Joined: 4/22/2005
Status: offline 		Hey Old Coach, I heard David mentioning in the Past that he tried to include "Option" type Commands for the PDS in order for us to create Option Run and Pass plays, but he said he had too take them out because they were huge AI busters. Did you ever see how this worked when David included them origionally? I heard you were part of the Beta Test team so i was wondering if you had any knowlege of this.

I hope David does find some way to include an Option Command, at least for running plays. I like them a lot in Running Plays.

(in reply to Old Coach)
Post #: 11
RE: Play Action and Playbooks - 3/17/2006 12:11:36 PM   
Old Coach


Posts: 1414
Joined: 1/11/2005
From: Shepherdsville, Kentucky
Status: offline 		The option command was never actually put in any beta version. We discussed it alot on the forum. My suggestion was to include an option pitch animation and command and then assign the command at the appropriate place in the QB's run path. It would be a called play- you might have a play designed 11 option which would be the QB running the ball and then 31 option where the QB pitches the ball to the trailing back and you see the pitch animation. It would look good. There would be no AI in which the QB would "decide" what to do.

Old Coach

(in reply to Magnum357)
Post #: 12
RE: Play Action and Playbooks - 3/17/2006 1:59:37 PM   
Sonny

 

Posts: 2008
Joined: 4/3/2002
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Old Coach

The option command was never actually put in any beta version. We discussed it alot on the forum. My suggestion was to include an option pitch animation and command and then assign the command at the appropriate place in the QB's run path. It would be a called play- you might have a play designed 11 option which would be the QB running the ball and then 31 option where the QB pitches the ball to the trailing back and you see the pitch animation. It would look good. There would be no AI in which the QB would "decide" what to do.

Old Coach


This is what I did to simulate the option.

_____________________________

Quote from Snigbert -

"If you mess with the historical accuracy, you're going to have ahistorical outcomes."

"I'll say it again for Sonny's sake: If you mess with historical accuracy, you're going to have
ahistorical outcomes. "

(in reply to Old Coach)
Post #: 13
RE: Play Action and Playbooks - 3/17/2006 5:58:10 PM   
Marauders

 

Posts: 4428
Joined: 3/17/2005
From: Minnesota
Status: offline
quote:

Just wondering, have you done much with defense using the PDS?

If so, how are you getting around the limitations (no bump & run, cover TEs/backfield, shade under or deep, draw different zones, etc)?


At this time, those are limitations. One has to design plays around them. That is why many of the defensive plays resemble real plays but have logic assigned to them or positioning that looks strange at times. The PDS needs some tweaking, but it is more powerful than some other games out there.

I am not used to setting up a defensive scheme with set zones and limited logic, but one has to make do with the tools given. I'll likely post a few more defenses and search for work-arounds for some of the limitations.

(in reply to anash)
Post #: 14
RE: Play Action and Playbooks - 3/17/2006 6:22:48 PM   
Old Coach


Posts: 1414
Joined: 1/11/2005
From: Shepherdsville, Kentucky
Status: offline 		Some days back someone asked this question in response to one of my posts and I'm just getting around to answering- sorry. My defenses in MaxFB are very simple because the command logic is limited. I'm still learning the best ways to deal with the defensive logic in my play design. I also understand the limitations of the defensive logic so I construct my offensive plays to work within these limitations. Simply- I try not to design plays that will always beat the A.I. and be sure TD's or long gains. Example: sweep plays can very easily be designed that will turn the corner and beat the defense for a big play. I draw RB paths long enough to reach the corner but not so long as to always get outside the CB's. Certain pass routes are A.I. killers, so I avoid those. Another factor is player ratings. Playtest to balance ratings for realistic results is also important and something that I am working on.

Old Coach

(in reply to Marauders)
Post #: 15
RE: Play Action and Playbooks - 3/18/2006 2:16:06 AM   
Magnum357

 

Posts: 613
Joined: 4/22/2005
Status: offline 		I do that aswell Old Coach on Running plays. I've notice that Sweep Plays can be designed too really destroy the Defense. Once a Running Back breaks the corner, its very hard for the DB (or any other defender) to catch him. So I put in some Design Perameter Limitations too keep my Offense Play designes limited.

(in reply to Old Coach)
Post #: 16
RE: Play Action and Playbooks - 3/18/2006 4:50:59 AM   
Marauders

 

Posts: 4428
Joined: 3/17/2005
From: Minnesota
Status: offline 		There are plays in the 11 man and 8 man playbooks that take on sweeps, but the computer will not always go to them quickly enough. Of course, new plays can find new holes in the AI, so it makes sense to give a counter defensive play to the computer to use if new offensive plays are to be used.


(in reply to Magnum357)
Post #: 17
RE: Play Action and Playbooks - 3/18/2006 5:38:41 PM   
elmerlee

 

Posts: 309
Joined: 7/20/2004
Status: offline 		I am curious to know what the PDS does that FBPro 98 did not do.

Seems like it is more like Madden a few year back.The fact that you can draw lines and jiggles for movement does not mean much if the lack of logic is there.

Guess this type action is being looked into ;but NOT short term.
Probably will hurt SALES short term.

(in reply to Marauders)
Post #: 18
RE: Play Action and Playbooks - 3/19/2006 3:35:14 AM   
Magnum357

 

Posts: 613
Joined: 4/22/2005
Status: offline 		Well, I will admit that the PDS might be a little less capable then the Play Editor that Football Pro 98 has. But trust me, the PDS is far better then anything EA Sports has offered in all its Madden Games.

(in reply to elmerlee)
Post #: 19
RE: Play Action and Playbooks - 3/19/2006 8:05:32 AM   
Marauders

 

Posts: 4428
Joined: 3/17/2005
From: Minnesota
Status: offline
quote:

I am curious to know what the PDS does that FBPro 98 did not do.


FBPro was powerful, but the AI could be beat just by lining up backfiled players outside the hash marks and other simple AI busters. Many leagues banned plays or went to league certification because of it. FBPro was good, but it had limitations.

quote:

Seems like it is more like Madden a few year back.The fact that you can draw lines and jiggles for movement does not mean much if the lack of logic is there.


There is logic in the game, but more logic would be better. It takes a supercomputer to beat a Grand Master in chess, and it will likely take some added logic to beat veteran coaches in a football simulation.

quote:

Guess this type action is being looked into ;but NOT short term.


This is being looked at by beta members, and the people who have taken the time to post here have also helped. I am sure David will take a look at this given time and priority.

(in reply to elmerlee)
Post #: 20
RE: Play Action and Playbooks - 3/19/2006 5:19:51 PM   
mark1726

 

Posts: 104
Joined: 2/27/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: elmerlee

I am curious to know what the PDS does that FBPro 98 did not do.

Seems like it is more like Madden a few year back.The fact that you can draw lines and jiggles for movement does not mean much if the lack of logic is there.

Guess this type action is being looked into ;but NOT short term.
Probably will hurt SALES short term.


It doesn't do some defensive pass coverage options well yet, but everything esle is just as good. I have had much better success with the PDS than I ever did with FBPro. To compare it to just drawing lines and not much else is ridiculous, you must not own the game.

The play editor is good and can get better with bug fixes and a few simple pass defensive options added. I have gotten simple post plays to work that never did in FBPro.

_____________________________

"Those who do not read and understand history are doomed to repeat it." - Harry Truman

(in reply to elmerlee)
Post #: 21
RE: Play Action and Playbooks - 3/19/2006 9:23:14 PM   
elmerlee

 

Posts: 309
Joined: 7/20/2004
Status: offline 		martin1726;would you mind reading and understanding what my statement was before making such remarks?

(in reply to mark1726)
Post #: 22
RE: Play Action and Playbooks - 3/19/2006 11:56:50 PM   
mark1726

 

Posts: 104
Joined: 2/27/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: elmerlee

martin1726;would you mind reading and understanding what my statement was before making such remarks?


I did, not sure what you are questioning. You said "The fact that you can draw lines and jiggles for movement does not mean much if the lack of logic is there". That sounded ridiculous to me, comparing it to simply "drawing lines and jiggles" so I replied.

It does have logic options and they work on offense but there are some admitted logic bugs on defense, still way more than simple line drawing for designing plays.

Hope I didn't offend you, just that statement of yours seemed a bit harsh and unnecessary.

< Message edited by mark1726 -- 3/20/2006 12:00:31 AM >

_____________________________

"Those who do not read and understand history are doomed to repeat it." - Harry Truman

(in reply to elmerlee)
Post #: 23
RE: Play Action and Playbooks - 3/20/2006 1:13:18 AM   
CFL_FAN_7

 

Posts: 428
Joined: 1/13/2006
Status: offline 		If you can create Play Action Plays, PDS is sick


< Message edited by CFL_FAN_7 -- 3/20/2006 3:50:48 AM >

(in reply to mark1726)
Post #: 24
RE: Play Action and Playbooks - 3/20/2006 1:56:09 AM   
Magnum357

 

Posts: 613
Joined: 4/22/2005
Status: offline 		What???

< Message edited by Magnum357 -- 3/20/2006 2:00:51 AM >

(in reply to CFL_FAN_7)
Post #: 25
RE: Play Action and Playbooks - 3/20/2006 3:52:23 AM   
CFL_FAN_7

 

Posts: 428
Joined: 1/13/2006
Status: offline 		I made a lil typing error

(in reply to Magnum357)
Post #: 26
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