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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> Norm Koger's The Operational Art Of War III >> URGENT HELP NEEDED!!!

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URGENT HELP NEEDED!!! - 2/6/2006 9:11:28 PM

cpangracs

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I am currently trying to coordinate a high-level operational exercise for students of the Master of Military Science degree program here at Fort Leavenworth. The instructor(s) wish to use TOAW: CoW edition for their exercise. Here are the particulars:

Four (4) copies of TOAW:CoW are installed on 4 different systems

The network is Windows XP based.

Each machine is patched with (I think) the latest patch!

Here is the problem: for some reason, ONLY the administrator that puts the software on the computer can access and run the game! It's as if the game doesn't recognize different users on a machine! Unfortunately, there is no way to give these students admin-level access to run the program, as it violates the network User Agreement!

Any help at all would be appreciated.

Curt

Post #: 1

RE: URGENT HELP NEEDED!!! - 2/6/2006 9:24:58 PM

golden delicious

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This really is a Windows problem rather than a TOAW problem; very likely if you just give the users the necessary permissions to access the TOAW folder and all subfolders this will be sufficient; the registry information isn't very important. If they still can't run TOAW when they are physically able to double-click the .exe, I don't know what's wrong.

If you resolve your problems I'd be very interested to hear how satisfactory you find TOAW as an educational tool. Having written my BA dissertation on conflict simulation, this is a subject I'm quite fascinated by.

< Message edited by golden delicious -- 2/6/2006 9:28:54 PM >

_____________________________

"What did you read at university?"
"War Studies"
"War? Huh. What is it good for?"
"Absolutely nothing."

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RE: URGENT HELP NEEDED!!! - 2/6/2006 9:28:41 PM

cpangracs

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The problem is we CAN'T give those permissions to the people who are going to use it! In addition, it seems strange that no one BUT the person who installs it can access it! There's no warning during install that asks if you want to make this program accessible to everyone or just you, as it is with most other programs - it's just very frustrating.

(in reply to golden delicious)

Post #: 3

RE: URGENT HELP NEEDED!!! - 2/6/2006 9:33:50 PM

golden delicious

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quote:

ORIGINAL: cpangracs

The problem is we CAN'T give those permissions to the people who are going to use it! In addition, it seems strange that no one BUT the person who installs it can access it! There's no warning during install that asks if you want to make this program accessible to everyone or just you, as it is with most other programs - it's just very frustrating.

OK. One possible solution is to use these .exe files;

http://www.tdg.nu/download/bioed_files/v104files.zip

They're the basic TOAW executable files (for version 1.04, which is the patch you should be using), but cracked.

_____________________________

"What did you read at university?"
"War Studies"
"War? Huh. What is it good for?"
"Absolutely nothing."

(in reply to cpangracs)

Post #: 4

RE: URGENT HELP NEEDED!!! - 2/6/2006 9:36:23 PM

JAMiAM

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Curt, just guessing here, but if the cd-rom privileges are restricted to the administrator, and you've not used the no-cd hack, then this may be what is causing the problem.

(in reply to cpangracs)

Post #: 5

RE: URGENT HELP NEEDED!!! - 2/6/2006 9:39:54 PM

golden delicious

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OK, I'm using Home Edition here, but I tried creating a new user account to run TOAW- and I got an error message refering to registry settings and asking me to reinstall. Is this the error you're getting? If so then I guess you'll have to copy over the registry settings from the admin who installed the game to the users. Let me take a look at my registry and get back to you.

_____________________________

"What did you read at university?"
"War Studies"
"War? Huh. What is it good for?"
"Absolutely nothing."

(in reply to JAMiAM)

Post #: 6

RE: URGENT HELP NEEDED!!! - 2/6/2006 9:47:41 PM

golden delicious

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OK, it looks like TOAW only creates registry entries for the current account when it is installed. So what you need to do is copy the registry entries over from the admin who installed the game to the registry tree for each user.

The registry keys should look something like this, inside the Software subtree;

I tried putting it in the default user tree, but that didn't work. It does work (I just tested it) if you copy to the user-specific registry trees directly.

Doing this will be fairly straightforward- if users are allowed to edit the registry. Since that's probably not the case, it'll be more complicated.

< Message edited by golden delicious -- 2/6/2006 9:58:12 PM >

_____________________________

"What did you read at university?"
"War Studies"
"War? Huh. What is it good for?"
"Absolutely nothing."

(in reply to golden delicious)

Post #: 7

RE: URGENT HELP NEEDED!!! - 2/6/2006 10:55:49 PM

ralphtricky

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From: Colorado Springs
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quote:

ORIGINAL: cpangracs

The problem is we CAN'T give those permissions to the people who are going to use it! In addition, it seems strange that no one BUT the person who installs it can access it! There's no warning during install that asks if you want to make this program accessible to everyone or just you, as it is with most other programs - it's just very frustrating.

What exactly is wrong? If someone that didn't install it goes to the c:\program files\talonsoft\TOAW-CW directory and runs OPART.EXE, what happens? What error message does it give?

(in reply to cpangracs)

Post #: 8

RE: URGENT HELP NEEDED!!! - 2/6/2006 10:58:16 PM

golden delicious

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ralphtrick

What exactly is wrong? If someone that didn't install it goes to the c:\program files\talonsoft\TOAW-CW directory and runs OPART.EXE, what happens? What error message does it give?

I can't speak for the message Curt received, but when I tried it there was an error message stating that expected registry entries were missing and asking me to try reinstalling TOAW.

After I copied the registry entries over from the installer, it worked fine.

I suppose what you would want is an option during installation to install just for the current user or for all users. The former is what the game does currently.

_____________________________

"What did you read at university?"
"War Studies"
"War? Huh. What is it good for?"
"Absolutely nothing."

(in reply to ralphtricky)

Post #: 9

RE: URGENT HELP NEEDED!!! - 2/6/2006 11:15:00 PM

cpangracs

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quote:

ORIGINAL: golden delicious

OK, it looks like TOAW only creates registry entries for the current account when it is installed. So what you need to do is copy the registry entries over from the admin who installed the game to the registry tree for each user.

The registry keys should look something like this, inside the Software subtree;

I tried putting it in the default user tree, but that didn't work. It does work (I just tested it) if you copy to the user-specific registry trees directly.

Doing this will be fairly straightforward- if users are allowed to edit the registry. Since that's probably not the case, it'll be more complicated.

This is EXACTLY the issue! I figured it would require a registry fix of some kind! Now all we have to do is identify all of the users that will require access to the game, have them log-in to the system to create a user profile, then copy over the registry!

Bravo! I knew you guys could help! Would it be wrong to offer an apple to the teacher if the teacher is an apple?!

Curt.

(in reply to golden delicious)

Post #: 10

RE: URGENT HELP NEEDED!!! - 2/7/2006 12:01:00 AM

golden delicious

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quote:

ORIGINAL: cpangracs

Bravo! I knew you guys could help! Would it be wrong to offer an apple to the teacher if the teacher is an apple?!

If you want to reward me, more information on this project would be the best way (hopefully I'm not going to run up against Official Secrecy here). Are you using pre-existing scenarios, or ones developed in-house by the instructors?

_____________________________

"What did you read at university?"
"War Studies"
"War? Huh. What is it good for?"
"Absolutely nothing."

(in reply to cpangracs)

Post #: 11

RE: URGENT HELP NEEDED!!! - 2/7/2006 12:42:53 AM

DanNeely

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Can't say I'm really surprised about this. toaw1 was written for win98(95??), when multiuser boxes were a rarity. NT support's been added one discovered bug at a time.

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Did you ever see history portrayed as an old man ... weighing all things in the balance of reason?
Is not [it] an eternal, imploring maiden, full of fire, with a burning heart and flaming soul, humanly warm and humanly beautiful?
--Zachris Topelius

(in reply to golden delicious)

Post #: 12

RE: URGENT HELP NEEDED!!! - 2/7/2006 1:10:07 AM

ralphtricky

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The MGE version should be more friendly. I'll test it to see what the minimum priveleges are.

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Post #: 13

RE: URGENT HELP NEEDED!!! - 2/7/2006 5:07:29 PM

BAL

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From: West of the Missouri
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Curt,

Please let us know how your exercise turns out.

(in reply to ralphtricky)

Post #: 14

RE: URGENT HELP NEEDED!!! - 3/7/2006 11:22:14 PM

Belisarios

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From: Ft. Leavenworth, KS. 66027
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There were a few other registry glitches but the sim worked fine. We had been using TOAW-COW extensively in class from 2000-2003. Changes in the curriculum moved us in other directions. It is now used on a more limited basis. In any case, TOAW is the only commercial simulation that addresses operational art as it is understood (or misunderstood) in the military. Hopefully, the Matrix version will address issues like non-kinetic forms of maneuver, three-sided play and other enhancements that allow for alternatives to high intensity, force-on-force operations.

(in reply to BAL)

Post #: 15

RE: URGENT HELP NEEDED!!! - 3/7/2006 11:42:45 PM

golden delicious

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Belisarios

There were a few other registry glitches but the sim worked fine. We had been using TOAW-COW extensively in class from 2000-2003. Changes in the curriculum moved us in other directions. It is now used on a more limited basis. In any case, TOAW is the only commercial simulation that addresses operational art as it is understood (or misunderstood) in the military. Hopefully, the Matrix version will address issues like non-kinetic forms of maneuver, three-sided play and other enhancements that allow for alternatives to high intensity, force-on-force operations.

Yeah, thanks for the info. Did you use existing scenarios or do you make your own in-house?

_____________________________

"What did you read at university?"
"War Studies"
"War? Huh. What is it good for?"
"Absolutely nothing."

(in reply to Belisarios)

Post #: 16

RE: URGENT HELP NEEDED!!! - 3/8/2006 2:42:14 AM

DanNeely

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Belisarios
In any case, TOAW is the only commercial simulation that addresses operational art as it is understood (or misunderstood) in the military. Hopefully, the Matrix version will address issues like non-kinetic forms of maneuver, three-sided play and other enhancements that allow for alternatives to high intensity, force-on-force operations.

Non-kinetic maneuver???

Unless sales are very good, any changes will be at the evolutionary level, not revolutionary. N sided play probably falls into the latter catagory. Matrix isn't putting a massive ammount of money into this. Despite having a 2nd contract that's paying his bills, Ralph's put enough 'unpaid overtime' into the game that his payoff's around the minimum wage level.

_____________________________

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Post #: 17

RE: URGENT HELP NEEDED!!! - 3/8/2006 3:31:12 AM

golden delicious

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DanNeely

Unless sales are very good, any changes will be at the evolutionary level, not revolutionary. N sided play probably falls into the latter catagory.

I dunno. Provided no single engagement involves combatants on more than two sides, having more than two forces is probably simpler than you think.

_____________________________

"What did you read at university?"
"War Studies"
"War? Huh. What is it good for?"
"Absolutely nothing."

(in reply to DanNeely)

Post #: 18

RE: URGENT HELP NEEDED!!! - 3/8/2006 3:38:15 AM

ralphtricky

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It's also a hobby for me. If I wanted to make more money, I'd do web page design, or something boring like that.

Doing a 21st century version would be a lot of fun. It's going to need a lot of tweaking to account for the different missions than were prevalent in earlier years. A lot more work is needed to account correctly for weapons like SAMS and SCUDS (also civilian casualties, supply, etc.) than for non-kinetic warfare.

I'm not sure yet what effect non-kinetic wepons have at an operational level, Chemicals are already in there, but at a simple level. The basic definition used by Norm for operational is that it's at the scale where direct fire ranges aren't important. The modern long-range weapons that can target an individual targets don't fit in that definition.

I don't know if TOAW can be changed to account for the changing rules or modern warfare, but I'll definitely look into it. Unlike some people, I happen to like the small scenarios, and that fits well with modern warfare. The trick isn't really adding the features, it's adding them in a way that isn't a simulation, but is a fun game that can be used as a simulation.

Things like multi-player may be possible, but it's going to take major work. I plan to work on TOAW for a while, it's fairly proof from obsolescence, and until someone writes a game like it but better, it should have a market. I think that Norm worked on this for a LONG time (I saw references to GEM) so anyone duplicating it has got a long road ahead of them.

Where any of these changes will fit into the TOAW games is anyone's guess right now. Where Modern or Multi-player or other mods will come in hasn't been fully decided. The first thing we've got to do is to put out a working version and see who's willing to buy it.

(in reply to DanNeely)

Post #: 19

RE: URGENT HELP NEEDED!!! - 3/8/2006 6:14:42 AM

Jevhaddah

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Just a thought and I may be completely off the wall here but...

If yoo use the Windows add remove programs to initiate the install instead of just clicking on the setup file on the CD etc, does windows not give the option to install the game for all users?

Cheers

Jevvy

(in reply to ralphtricky)

Post #: 20

RE: URGENT HELP NEEDED!!! - 3/8/2006 7:23:48 AM

Belisarios

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Actually we modifed one of Al Sandrik's scenarios, though we've built our own in the past like the Leipzig Camapign, 1813.

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RE: URGENT HELP NEEDED!!! - 3/8/2006 7:32:02 AM

Belisarios

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I'm thinking strictly from the standpoint of military education and appreciate the commcercial issues involved: three-sided play would allow civilians, neutrals etc., as part of the operating environment. Non-kinetic forms of maneuver (building bridges, sewers, all forms of influence rather than the application of pure force) could occur in this third "dimension."

(in reply to ralphtricky)

Post #: 22

RE: URGENT HELP NEEDED!!! - 3/25/2006 6:28:48 PM

Belisarios

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An article by Julian Barnes in the 27 March 2006 issue of US NEWS & WORLD REPORT referred to the classroom exercise discussed in this thread.

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RE: URGENT HELP NEEDED!!! - 3/27/2006 6:36:30 PM

ralphtricky

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Belisarios

An article by Julian Barnes in the 27 March 2006 issue of US NEWS & WORLD REPORT referred to the classroom exercise discussed in this thread.

Thanks. I've got a copy of that magazine, I'll check it out..

(in reply to Belisarios)

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RE: URGENT HELP NEEDED!!! - 3/27/2006 9:48:30 PM

sstevens06

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ralphtrick

quote:

ORIGINAL: Belisarios

An article by Julian Barnes in the 27 March 2006 issue of US NEWS & WORLD REPORT referred to the classroom exercise discussed in this thread.

Thanks. I've got a copy of that magazine, I'll check it out..

Here's a link to the article online:

http://www.usnews.com/usnews/news/articles/060327/27military.htm

(in reply to ralphtricky)

Post #: 25

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URGENT HELP NEEDED!!!