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Beta Testing - 3/23/2006 4:33:37 AM   
scout1


Posts: 2899
Joined: 8/24/2004
From: South Bend, In
Status: offline 		Are the beta testers, testing ?

Haven't heard much and was curious how things are going ?
Post #: 1
RE: Beta Testing - 3/23/2006 5:24:58 AM   
mlees


Posts: 2263
Joined: 9/20/2003
From: San Diego
Status: offline 		SSShhhhh!

*whispers* There busy playing...

(in reply to scout1)
Post #: 2
RE: Beta Testing - 3/23/2006 6:41:11 AM   
pak19652002

 

Posts: 280
Joined: 1/2/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: scout1

Are the beta testers, testing ?

Haven't heard much and was curious how things are going ?


Yes, indeed we are! All reports are supposed to come from the big man, however. I'm sure Steve will provide an update soon.

Peter

(in reply to scout1)
Post #: 3
RE: Beta Testing - 3/23/2006 8:04:29 AM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

Posts: 22095
Joined: 5/19/2005
From: Honolulu, Hawaii
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: pak19652002
quote:

ORIGINAL: scout1
Are the beta testers, testing ?

Haven't heard much and was curious how things are going ?


Yes, indeed we are! All reports are supposed to come from the big man, however. I'm sure Steve will provide an update soon.

Peter


Yes, I'm overweight. No need to point it out.

I have 80 bug reports from the beta testers (though some are my own discoveries) over a period of 12 days. I have fixed 25 of them.

The remainder break down roughly as 14 fatal, 17 bad, and 24 cosmetic-comment-suggestion. I'm working on those first 31. some are easy, some are hard.

Right now I am reviewing the code for moving resources to factories. There is a search routine in there that needs to be improved. Though it is probably not the cause of one of the fatal bugs, it is nearby, so I am going to take my first look at that code.

I gave the beta testers version 03 to start, followed by 04 the next day, and 05 yesterday.

There are no real surprises here, just dumb mistakes - I have yet to see a clever mistake. Most bugs start out as completely hopeless to figure out and at the end, when they have been fixed, you wonder why they were so hard to find. So it goes.

_____________________________

Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

(in reply to pak19652002)
Post #: 4
RE: Beta Testing - 3/23/2006 11:57:15 AM   
DavidFaust

 

Posts: 857
Joined: 9/4/2004
From: Australia
Status: offline 		It could be worse, if I was play testing you would have much much more, lol.
The main computer game I have played is WIR and it has been out for a very long time. There have been many posts regarding bugs and faults on this game. I have found bugs/faults that if I posted them on the forum, the game would be unplayable. My play style and tactics are very different and has a tendancy to find faults/bugs.

(in reply to Shannon V. OKeets)
Post #: 5
RE: Beta Testing - 3/23/2006 8:01:02 PM   
Ballista


Posts: 183
Joined: 1/21/2005
Status: offline 		I tend to do some wierd things as well- if it can be broke I can do it (unintentionally or not)....

(in reply to DavidFaust)
Post #: 6
RE: Beta Testing - 3/23/2006 10:53:00 PM   
YohanTM2

 

Posts: 1143
Joined: 10/7/2002
From: Toronto
Status: offline 		Alright King and Baliista,

Stop this shameless yet subtle attempt to get into the 2nd round of Beta testing. Clearly a Canadian should be in round 2.



Rob

(in reply to Ballista)
Post #: 7
RE: Beta Testing - 3/24/2006 12:46:18 AM   
tigercub


Posts: 2004
Joined: 2/3/2003
From: brisbane oz
Status: offline 		no Aussies have a more even view of things so are better suited for such work. (just an out right grab for the job)lol.

_____________________________


You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life

(in reply to YohanTM2)
Post #: 8
RE: Beta Testing - 3/24/2006 1:57:01 AM   
DavidFaust

 

Posts: 857
Joined: 9/4/2004
From: Australia
Status: offline
quote:

For those of you confused by the above time references, I should point out that those people walk around upside down. Spring arrives in October and November.


I think Steve summed it up pretty well. Us Aussies see things from a different perspective from walking around upside down. Its a perfect way to test code.

Tigerclub, We were looking at some properties up at Bundeberg as we were thinking of moving up there.

(in reply to tigercub)
Post #: 9
RE: Beta Testing - 3/24/2006 4:50:39 AM   
JimMerson


Posts: 60
Joined: 12/26/2005
From: Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kingtiger_501

quote:

For those of you confused by the above time references, I should point out that those people walk around upside down. Spring arrives in October and November.


I think Steve summed it up pretty well. Us Aussies see things from a different perspective from walking around upside down. Its a perfect way to test code.

Tigerclub, We were looking at some properties up at Bundeberg as we were thinking of moving up there.


From my limited experience dealing with the indegidous people of Australia, I would say the folks of Makey are the friendliest. Followed closely by Melborne.... Man I wish I could go back and walk on my head again!!!!

Jim Merson

(in reply to DavidFaust)
Post #: 10
RE: Beta Testing - 3/24/2006 7:36:13 AM   
composer99


Posts: 2923
Joined: 6/6/2005
From: Ottawa, Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Yohan

Alright King and Baliista,

Stop this shameless yet subtle attempt to get into the 2nd round of Beta testing. Clearly a Canadian should be in round 2.



Rob


Just as long as, if they're looking for Canadians, they wait until mid-April or so to do it... I wouldn't mind beta-testing, but I'd just as soon be done school by the time the opportunity arises.

_____________________________

~ Composer99

(in reply to YohanTM2)
Post #: 11
RE: Beta Testing - 3/24/2006 10:13:57 AM   
Greyshaft


Posts: 2252
Joined: 10/27/2003
From: Sydney, Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JimMerson
From my limited experience dealing with the indegidous people of Australia, I would say the folks of Makey are the friendliest. Followed closely by Melborne.... Man I wish I could go back and walk on my head again!!!!

Jim Merson


Makey? Melborne?

Didn't you mean 'Mackay' and 'Melbourne'?

Iffen you furriners cain' lern to spell then what use you gunna be in a beta test?



_____________________________

/Greyshaft

(in reply to JimMerson)
Post #: 12
RE: Beta Testing - 3/24/2006 10:15:43 AM   
Greyshaft


Posts: 2252
Joined: 10/27/2003
From: Sydney, Australia
Status: offline 		I figured something I can say without breaking confidentiality agreements...

Playing with the new maps is 1,000,000,000,000,000 % better than playing with the old CWiF maps

< Message edited by Greyshaft -- 3/24/2006 10:19:21 AM >

_____________________________

/Greyshaft

(in reply to composer99)
Post #: 13
RE: Beta Testing - 3/24/2006 10:38:41 AM   
tigercub


Posts: 2004
Joined: 2/3/2003
From: brisbane oz
Status: offline 		i have a block for sale 300m to the river & 1km to the sea.

_____________________________


You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life

(in reply to DavidFaust)
Post #: 14
RE: Beta Testing - 3/24/2006 8:59:03 PM   
pak19652002

 

Posts: 280
Joined: 1/2/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Greyshaft

I figured something I can say without breaking confidentiality agreements...

Playing with the new maps is 1,000,000,000,000,000 % better than playing with the old CWiF maps



Don't exaggerate, Greyshaft. I'd more conservatively estimate that the new maps are 999,999,999,999,998% better than the old maps. No need to get carried away here.

Peter

(in reply to Greyshaft)
Post #: 15
RE: Beta Testing - 3/26/2006 12:00:00 PM   
Norden_slith


Posts: 166
Joined: 8/27/2003
From: expatriate german
Status: offline 		Its a mood point, numbers can only have one ","

Norden

_____________________________

Norden
---------------------------------------------------------------
Hexagonally challenged

(in reply to pak19652002)
Post #: 16
RE: Beta Testing - 3/26/2006 12:21:25 PM   
Greyshaft


Posts: 2252
Joined: 10/27/2003
From: Sydney, Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Norden

Its a mood point, numbers can only have one ","

Norden


In Australia and in the US the ',' symbol is used to group thousands and millions etc.
The decimal point '.' is used to separate the decimals from the whole numbers.
So in my country a number can have only one '.' but can have lots of ','.

_____________________________

/Greyshaft

(in reply to Norden_slith)
Post #: 17
RE: Beta Testing - 3/26/2006 12:31:44 PM   
norvandave


Posts: 85
Joined: 2/24/2004
From: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Status: offline 		I just hope the AI is not being forgotten here and is getting due attention. Not everybody has the time to play other live players and a good (decent) AI is a must IMHO. Otherwise, I do like what I see.

_____________________________

First there is a mountain, then there is no mountain, then there is.

(in reply to Greyshaft)
Post #: 18
RE: Beta Testing - 3/26/2006 5:41:57 PM   
macgregor


Posts: 990
Joined: 2/10/2004
Status: offline 		The game hasn't been released yet. That's a good sign they're working on your @#$% AI.

(in reply to norvandave)
Post #: 19
RE: Beta Testing - 3/26/2006 6:51:13 PM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

Posts: 22095
Joined: 5/19/2005
From: Honolulu, Hawaii
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: macgregor

The game hasn't been released yet. That's a good sign they're working on your @#$% AI.


Now, now.

I have spent most of the last month replacing and fixing unstable code from CWIF. That is code that seems to work most of the time, but actually is wandering around in the weeds. When it is subjected to rigorous examination and testing, the weaknesses are exposed. Of course, identifying precisely where it is going astray is very difficult - because most of the time there are no symptoms/outright failures. The bug I fixed yesterday had one of the extremely rare comment lines for CWIF: "Is there a defect in the compiler? I had to insert these lines to work around a problem." The answer was: no, there is no defect in the compiler; there's another problem deeper in the code that has to be corrected.

The beta testers make repeated runs against the existing program, noting when failures do and do not occur. That helps me trap the wee beasties.

I haven't been able to spend much time at all over the last 3 months on the AI. Besides the above activity, I have been working on improving the graphics and the user interface. I also spend a lot of time simply reading through sections of the legacy code I have never examined in detail and putting in comments - part of my quest to have a thorough understanding so I can made massive changes later.

In particular, the next major upheaval to the existing code will be replacing the incomplete Internet code (DirectX based) with brand new software (Indy 10 based). I do not want to take that on until after I have cleaned up the existing program so there are no fatal/critical bugs (11 of those remain as of this morning, plus 26 minor/cosmetic bugs). Dan Hatchen is very close to the point where the code he has been writing for Internet play, using the newly released Indy10 software package, can be integrated into the current MWIF program. I was hoping to start doing that by the end of this month (March), but I am running out of month rather quickly.

To get back to Norvadave's post that prompted your response, the AI is not forgotten. Never will be, do not fear.

The major changes to support Indy10 are also essential to lay the foundation for 3 other huge additions that will define the transformation of CWIF into MWIF:
1 - PBEM (play by email mode of play)
2 - AI opponent (solitaire mode of play)
3 - Game record log and replay (the ability to replay a game move by move, decision by decision, both forward in time and backward in time).

The rigorous examination of the current program is to make sure that the foundation the 4 major code structures will be built upon are rock solid (the 4th is the Internet mode of play).

_____________________________

Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

(in reply to macgregor)
Post #: 20
RE: Beta Testing - 3/26/2006 8:04:22 PM   
macgregor


Posts: 990
Joined: 2/10/2004
Status: offline 		I recieved company and was forced to be brief. I'm sure I could've softened it up with a longer post. I remember a conversation long ago with a game designer who told me how difficult and lengthy putting together an AI for WiF would be. Sorry I can't be of more help.

< Message edited by macgregor -- 3/26/2006 11:57:04 PM >

(in reply to Shannon V. OKeets)
Post #: 21
RE: Beta Testing - 3/27/2006 7:51:01 AM   
DavidFaust

 

Posts: 857
Joined: 9/4/2004
From: Australia
Status: offline 		With little honest Jonny on the war path, we have decided to not move for a few years.
I wonder how many ppl will be jobless today.

(in reply to tigercub)
Post #: 22
RE: Beta Testing - 3/27/2006 8:00:35 AM   
pak19652002

 

Posts: 280
Joined: 1/2/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Greyshaft

quote:

ORIGINAL: Norden

Its a mood point, numbers can only have one ","

Norden


In Australia and in the US the ',' symbol is used to group thousands and millions etc.
The decimal point '.' is used to separate the decimals from the whole numbers.
So in my country a number can have only one '.' but can have lots of ','.



Yes, yes. I've never gotten used to seeing my trusty old "." decimal point replaced with a comma. Seems un-American...and I suppose it really is! Next they will be telling me to use "thousand million" instead of billion. Oh, the humanity.

Peter

(in reply to Greyshaft)
Post #: 23
RE: Beta Testing - 3/27/2006 9:03:11 AM   
JanSorensen

 

Posts: 3684
Joined: 5/2/2005
From: Aalborg, Denmark
Status: offline 		In Danish a "billion" is 10^12 while a "milliard" is 10^9 - so it takes a little getting used to the US using a billion for 10^9.

The fact that dates are written as "month/day/year" in the US system is also a cause for great confusion - compared to "day/month/year".

(in reply to pak19652002)
Post #: 24
RE: Beta Testing - 3/27/2006 9:23:43 AM   
Norden_slith


Posts: 166
Joined: 8/27/2003
From: expatriate german
Status: offline 		Yes, well. Im living in Denmark, beeing a very small country, where english is used for lots of stuff, including sciene and most PC stuff. So I am very aware of that, hence the smiley. Stuff like that can be troublesome, I tell you. And the datething mentioned can be worse. One can never tell what it is, until there is a day appearing in the second slot thats higher than 12...
Then there are inches, feet, yeards, various miles, ounces, pounds, at least 2 kinds of tons -

Norden, expatriate German


quote:

ORIGINAL: Greyshaft

quote:

ORIGINAL: Norden

Its a mood point, numbers can only have one ","

Norden


In Australia and in the US the ',' symbol is used to group thousands and millions etc.
The decimal point '.' is used to separate the decimals from the whole numbers.
So in my country a number can have only one '.' but can have lots of ','.



_____________________________

Norden
---------------------------------------------------------------
Hexagonally challenged

(in reply to Greyshaft)
Post #: 25
RE: Beta Testing - 3/27/2006 9:53:23 AM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

Posts: 22095
Joined: 5/19/2005
From: Honolulu, Hawaii
Status: offline 		I had to write a modification to my save and restore routines so they would not depend on periods as the delimiter between the integer and decimal portions of a real number. You see, I was writing out comma delimited files and beta testers using European style format for real numbers had this extra comma where I didn't expect it. I also had to adjust for the possibility that the negative sign would trail the number instead of preceding it: 14- degrees instead of -14 degrees.

Mercifully, I am not using days and months in this program, just bimonths: jan/feb etc..

I also have all the text in what are known as "resource strings". Theoretically, someone will be able to process them from English to (say) French and the program would run without any other modifications. I do wonder about the spacing though - whether there will be enough room for all the text after translation.

_____________________________

Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

(in reply to Norden_slith)
Post #: 26
RE: Beta Testing - 3/27/2006 2:49:47 PM   
tigercub


Posts: 2004
Joined: 2/3/2003
From: brisbane oz
Status: offline 		any chance of a couple of beta screen shots?

_____________________________


You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life

(in reply to scout1)
Post #: 27
RE: Beta Testing - 3/27/2006 7:29:27 PM   
Shannon V. OKeets

 

Posts: 22095
Joined: 5/19/2005
From: Honolulu, Hawaii
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tigercub

any chance of a couple of beta screen shots?

I'll pass along the suggestion to the beta testers.

_____________________________

Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

(in reply to tigercub)
Post #: 28
RE: Beta Testing - 3/27/2006 10:52:31 PM   
vonCommander


Posts: 52
Joined: 8/20/2005
From: Germany
Status: offline 		Oh, have I heared the word "screenshot"?!

_____________________________


(in reply to tigercub)
Post #: 29
RE: Beta Testing - 3/28/2006 12:47:37 AM   
YohanTM2

 

Posts: 1143
Joined: 10/7/2002
From: Toronto
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: vonCommander

Oh, have I heared the word "screenshot"?!


Be still my heart :)

(in reply to vonCommander)
Post #: 30
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