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Me 109/ Bf 109

 
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Me 109/ Bf 109 - 4/4/2006 6:25:49 AM   
Once Joey


Posts: 50
Joined: 3/22/2006
Status: offline 		Fittingly, there was a lenghty grand debate on one of the CFS3 Boards years ago about this subject, trying to define the "official" designation for a Messerschmitt 109.

For example:
Bf 109
BF 109
Bf-109
Bf109

Very very minor differences I must say, but BTR is the first WWII sim (that I can remember) with a Me 109. It simply looks odd at first glance, as I instantly think 110 when I see the letters Me as a plane designation.

I found this while browsing the internet a while back:

The redesignation of the Bayerische Flugzeugwerke AG (Aktiengesellschaft or Corporation) to the Messerschmitt AG in 1938 led many to call it the Me 109, although the official Luftwaffe designation of the aircraft remained the Bf 109 throughout the war.
http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/air_power/ap14.htm

I now know that it was originally a Bayerische Flugzeugwerke, (which I only learned as an adult), I had always thought Bf stood for "Bomber/Fighter" (umm, oops?!)...

Anyway, just wondering, why this be?


Post #: 1
RE: Me 109/ Bf 109 - 4/5/2006 2:16:49 PM   
Denniss

 

Posts: 7902
Joined: 1/10/2002
From: Germany, Hannover (region)
Status: offline 		One of the later patches changed it to Bf 109/Bf 110. I don't know whether official Talonsoft patch or OOB update by JCL.

(in reply to Once Joey)
Post #: 2
RE: Me 109/ Bf 109 - 4/5/2006 4:04:37 PM   
Hard Sarge


Posts: 22741
Joined: 10/1/2000
From: garfield hts ohio usa
Status: offline 		going from memory here

but I believe the 109/110 were both being made when the plant was still Bf, contracts and all, were for the Bf-109/-110, after the contracts and the awards and what not, the company Bf was renamed to Me, there after, any model that was designed would be named using the new company name, and that is how you get the Bf-110, and the Me-210/410

it may not be totally correct on how I state it, but I think it is the general idea

once VS sees the post, I am sure he can go into deeper detail



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Post #: 3
RE: Me 109/ Bf 109 - 4/6/2006 12:32:10 AM   
06 Maestro


Posts: 3989
Joined: 10/12/2005
From: Nevada, USA
Status: offline 		The confusion on the proper name is understandable. The root problem goes back to 1926. W. Messerschmitt formed his company (Messerschmitt Flugzeughbau G.m.bH) in March 1926. Also in 1926, the state government of Bavaria sponsored a new aircraft company; Bayerische Flugzeugwerke (BFW).
BFW had significant political difficulties with the central government’s procurement department and had some problems in design competition against the Messerschmitt firm. Both the state government and the central government had a financial stake in BFW and could not allow it to fail so some solution had to be found. It was not possible to properly support both firms so W. Messerschmitt was pressured into a merger plan (in 1927) which eliminated his company, but gave him control of the R&D of BFW. The BFW management kept control of the plants and production. Messerschmitt eventually was appointed the chairman of BFW; a post he held until the BF 210 fiasco in 41/42.
So, although it was common to refer to the 109 as a Me 109, (respect for the designer?) it is not accurate. The aircraft was from its inception a BF 109, and remained so for the entire war.

(in reply to Hard Sarge)
Post #: 4
RE: Me 109/ Bf 109 - 4/6/2006 3:32:05 AM   
Denniss

 

Posts: 7902
Joined: 1/10/2002
From: Germany, Hannover (region)
Status: offline 		Bf not BF
Bf 109 not Bf-109 or Bf109

< Message edited by Denniss -- 4/6/2006 3:33:01 AM >

(in reply to 06 Maestro)
Post #: 5
RE: Me 109/ Bf 109 - 4/6/2006 3:51:24 AM   
06 Maestro


Posts: 3989
Joined: 10/12/2005
From: Nevada, USA
Status: offline 		The devil is in the details...and you are correct.

(in reply to Denniss)
Post #: 6
RE: Me 109/ Bf 109 - 4/6/2006 5:52:41 AM   
harley


Posts: 1700
Joined: 10/13/2005
Status: offline 		Oh, don't start this again.

BF is as ok as FW. It's 2 proper names. Records show both Bf and BF and Fw and FW were used.


(in reply to 06 Maestro)
Post #: 7
RE: Me 109/ Bf 109 - 4/6/2006 9:16:30 AM   
06 Maestro


Posts: 3989
Joined: 10/12/2005
From: Nevada, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: harley

Oh, don't start this again.





Not me.

(in reply to harley)
Post #: 8
RE: Me 109/ Bf 109 - 4/6/2006 7:23:51 PM   
Denniss

 

Posts: 7902
Joined: 1/10/2002
From: Germany, Hannover (region)
Status: offline 		The RLM aircraft designation system had standard letter codes for aircraft manufacturers. Usually two letters, the first is always a capital letter and the second lower case. AFAIK the only exception was Blohm & Voss with both capital letters (BV), earlier (firming as Hamburger Flugzeugbau) it was a standard Ha letter code.

(in reply to 06 Maestro)
Post #: 9
RE: Me 109/ Bf 109 - 4/7/2006 9:48:14 AM   
Once Joey


Posts: 50
Joined: 3/22/2006
Status: offline 		Oops!? (sorry to mash things up here). But... that definitely does answer my original Post, thanks.

For the record, I am currently running v1.05 (TS official patch), and Bf 109 is displayed as Me 109. Same goes for the 1.06x5 Patch (Bf is Me).

Is there a readme, (or possibly) a FAQ for 1.06x5, as to what has been updated or changed from v1.05 to 1.06x5?

< Message edited by Bakerstaffel -- 4/7/2006 9:59:10 AM >

(in reply to Denniss)
Post #: 10
RE: Me 109/ Bf 109 - 4/7/2006 7:20:48 PM   
Denniss

 

Posts: 7902
Joined: 1/10/2002
From: Germany, Hannover (region)
Status: offline 		see attachment, remove the .txt and unpack

Attachment (1)

(in reply to Once Joey)
Post #: 11
RE: Me 109/ Bf 109 - 4/7/2006 7:51:23 PM   
Hard Sarge


Posts: 22741
Joined: 10/1/2000
From: garfield hts ohio usa
Status: offline 		Hi Bakerstaffel

in the OOB's from JC, a lot of the names were redone

we are also trying to redo, correct any we find as wrong

so if you find a later OOB from JC or what we are doing now, the basic listings should be

Bf 109
Bf 110
Me 210
Me 410
Me 262

hmmmmm

since every one else is nitpicking this week

shouldn't your nick name be
StaffelBaker

or more correctly
Jagdstaffel Baker
???????


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Post #: 12
RE: Me 109/ Bf 109 - 10/9/2006 11:35:48 AM   
Once Joey


Posts: 50
Joined: 3/22/2006
Status: offline 		It's a long/short story. Basically, the first time I sat down to "European Air War" (many years ago), I typed in my user name as "Baker" (my actual name). But little did I realize that "Staffel" was typed in by default - hense "Bakerstaffel", but you are correct Hard Sarge. Bakerstaffel kinda sounds like one of those "Hogan's Heroes" alias' that Hogan used (i.e. Hoganhoffer) on his little side-missions, so I have stuck with it...

Could you please direct me towards an updated OOB which has been corrected as stated above in this Thread, or a maybe a JC/JCL weblink? I have (once again) found a vast interest in BTR, so any updated OOB would be greatly appreciated.

...and of course, Thanks Much!!

< Message edited by Bakerstaffel -- 10/9/2006 11:48:25 AM >

(in reply to Hard Sarge)
Post #: 13
RE: Me 109/ Bf 109 - 10/9/2006 8:06:29 PM   
Hard Sarge


Posts: 22741
Joined: 10/1/2000
From: garfield hts ohio usa
Status: offline 		Interesting

my nick is pretty much from a flight sim too

I was in the Marines of course, got out and got a job, I used to wear a number of my greens for work, so one of the guys as a insult started calling me Sarge, but to me, I was like, I was a Sgt, I am, used to be called Sarge, so it stuck

when I first went into my flight sim (Fighter Ace) I had the nick of Sarge, got invited to my first Squadron, and became BBFG_Sarge (Best of the Best Fighter Group) (and in fact, we were pretty good, but we expanded to fast, and the core group were the only ones we flew with Team work in mind)

later after they broke up, one of the top Squads asked me to Join them, I then became HARD_Sarge, after that, I pretty much used that nick when ever I signed up for a fourm or newsgroup

later on, when a newer verison of the game was coming out and after a lot of infighting, it was decided to change the squadron name to Wild (HARD had a Rep of being too intense, to good, while most of the new members just wanted to have fun)

I stayed HARD, I wasn't going to lower my skill level, to just have fun

a number of Squads were always asking if I wanted to join them, but I always said, if  I can keep my nick, I will join you, other wise, I will just tag along and help out

finally, BANZAI, said, hell, we want you, we don't care what your name is, so I am now BANZAI_HD_Sarge

turns out there wasn't enough room to fit my nick in, but it was enough that they would of let me, and anybody who had known me, knew what HD meant

my best friend always ended his mail and messages with HARD till I die, in his honor I said I would stay HARD till I died too

(he is still with us, but had a very bad time in his life and pretty much freaked out, won't go into details, but nobody should have to go though that, and it turns out that two of my best friends had to)

so, to make a long story short, if you see a HARD_Sarge on a forum near by, the odds are it is me




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(in reply to Once Joey)
Post #: 14
RE: Me 109/ Bf 109 - 10/31/2006 10:22:04 PM   
Nikademus


Posts: 25684
Joined: 5/27/2000
From: Alien spacecraft
Status: offline 		Personally, I like Me-109

its cooler sounding.

(dives into trench....)

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Post #: 15
RE: Me 109/ Bf 109 - 11/1/2006 12:47:04 AM   
harley


Posts: 1700
Joined: 10/13/2005
Status: offline 		Man after my own heart, Nik.



_____________________________

gigiddy gigiddy gig-i-ddy

(in reply to Nikademus)
Post #: 16
RE: Me 109/ Bf 109 - 11/1/2006 4:01:13 AM   
33Vyper


Posts: 542
Joined: 10/20/2004
From: New Westminster BC
Status: offline 		Ya know.....I never new any of this before. 

I had always thought that the Me-109 and the Bf-109 were different planes.  

I hate to say it but I like Me-109 myself....its what they called it in all the good war movies !

This post respectfully submitted without asking "Are we there yet?"

(in reply to harley)
Post #: 17
RE: Me 109/ Bf 109 - 11/1/2006 3:07:30 PM   
Hard Sarge


Posts: 22741
Joined: 10/1/2000
From: garfield hts ohio usa
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: 33Vyper

Ya know.....I never new any of this before.

I had always thought that the Me-109 and the Bf-109 were different planes.

I hate to say it but I like Me-109 myself....its what they called it in all the good war movies !

This post respectfully submitted without asking "Are we there yet?"


I'll skip the first part :)

but the end part, all I can say is we are closer then we were a few months ago and closer then we were a month ago, other then that, I not saying anything

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Post #: 18
RE: Me 109/ Bf 109 - 11/1/2006 8:35:01 PM   
Nikademus


Posts: 25684
Joined: 5/27/2000
From: Alien spacecraft
Status: offline 		It's what BoB vet and author Peter Townsend calls em too....Me-109's and 110's.

Good enough for him.....good enough for me. (and cool!)

already want to fire up EAW and fly a 110. (cuz i'm into pain)

_____________________________


(in reply to 33Vyper)
Post #: 19
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