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AK versus AP ship for invasion

 
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AK versus AP ship for invasion - 4/29/2006 3:11:12 PM   
madmickey

 

Posts: 1336
Joined: 2/11/2004
From: Calgary, Alberta
Status: offline 		In the kodapa strategy guide it indicate AK land troop more effectively than AP hip is this because AP ship have more experience crews and captains. Do APA ship have any advantage over other AP ship other than the increased deck guns, In real life APAQ ships had landing craft which AP ships did not have. What are people opinions?WITP strategy
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RE: AK versus AP ship for invasion - 4/30/2006 12:14:22 AM   
YankeeAirRat


Posts: 633
Joined: 6/22/2005
Status: offline 		Historically late on in the war (if what most of my resources state around 1943 Post-Tarawa) the two types of ships were used in conjuction. APA's carried the personnel and some cargo to support the troops (such as beans, bullets, and radios) while the AKA's carried the tanks, artillery, and other heavy cargo. They also had limited spaces for troops, the troops that they carried were the crews for the tanks and such.

I am not completely sure, nor convinced, how it all works with in the game and the difference between the two. I have tried running a TF of just APA's loaded with ground troops and a TF of AKA's loaded with artillery and tanks and noticed no difference between how fast it took those two different TF's offloaded. It appeared to me that they too just as long to offload if only AKA's were loaded with everything or if a mixed TF of APA's and AKA's were loaded down.

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RE: AK versus AP ship for invasion - 4/30/2006 1:58:03 AM   
m10bob


Posts: 8622
Joined: 11/3/2002
From: Dismal Seepage Indiana
Status: offline 		I'm not so sure the game really recognizes APA's as different than standard AP's..(Maybe Mog can clarify, as he always looks over our shoulders).
My dad-in-law was on the Callaway which is in the game, but it is labelled as an AP.(It was APA 35 IIRC.)

< Message edited by m10bob -- 4/30/2006 7:07:06 PM >

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RE: AK versus AP ship for invasion - 4/30/2006 2:17:18 AM   
el cid again

 

Posts: 16922
Joined: 10/10/2005
Status: offline 		These vessels are converted cargo ships. The only difference is an APA has facilities for more troops. Both ships carry troops and cargo. Both ships can carry tanks - loading them over the side onto landing craft. Doesn't matter much if the game makes a distinction - but I think it does - see the manual on loadings. My first ship was the last APA ever built - USS Francis Marion - APA-249

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RE: AK versus AP ship for invasion - 4/30/2006 2:20:28 AM   
m10bob


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From: Dismal Seepage Indiana
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quote:

ORIGINAL: el cid again

These vessels are converted cargo ships. The only difference is an APA has facilities for more troops. Both ships carry troops and cargo. Both ships can carry tanks - loading them over the side onto landing craft. Doesn't matter much if the game makes a distinction - but I think it does - see the manual on loadings. My first ship was the last APA ever built - USS Francis Marion - APA-249

Thank you Sid...Francis Marion..."The Swamp Fox"......


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RE: AK versus AP ship for invasion - 4/30/2006 4:16:28 AM   
madmickey

 

Posts: 1336
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quote:

ORIGINAL: el cid again

These vessels are converted cargo ships. The only difference is an APA has facilities for more troops. Both ships carry troops and cargo. Both ships can carry tanks - loading them over the side onto landing craft. Doesn't matter much if the game makes a distinction - but I think it does - see the manual on loadings. My first ship was the last APA ever built - USS Francis Marion - APA-249

APA & AKA carried and maintained landing craft AP & AK ship do not carry landing craft they may use APA & AKA from other ships after the the APA & AKA ships were done with landing craft. WITP does not recognize this reality. APA and AKA ship also carried more deck guns and had a much larger crew.

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RE: AK versus AP ship for invasion - 4/30/2006 6:42:39 PM   
el cid again

 

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quote:

APA & AKA carried and maintained landing craft AP & AK ship do not carry landing craft they may use APA & AKA from other ships after the the APA & AKA ships were done with landing craft. WITP does not recognize this reality. APA and AKA ship also carried more deck guns and had a much larger crew.


This is correct: An AP or AK is a nearly pure merchantman - it might have a single gun aft or one forward and one aft - and a detachment of the "naval escort service" to man them. But it has no langing craft, and its crew is civilian. An APA or AKA is purely navy, has typically four heavy gun mounts (often twins), and many lighter ones, and 14 to 22 landing craft - requiring more men to man them than a normal AP or AK has in its total crew. Regular AKs have crews in the 20-60 man range - an AP has more to care for passengers - but not too many more - but an attack transport has about 400-450 - the crew of a cruiser. These men man the ship, the landing craft, the ships guns, and have a real boarding party which means the ship always has "troops" even if none are embarked - so they get called to do things like boarding - and other special tasks suitable for a small force. This party is trained at a USMC school, and uses USMC weapons and tactics - and it is very special: sailors are not grunts - but specialists - so a langing party can also serve as a prize crew - they can run engines, radios, have a medical corpsman (who is more line a modern EMT than an army mecic - it is where the idea came from), and lots of other skills. They are used to being isolated in a small party - and they can call in heavy fire from the ship or even aircraft - that is spotting is organic (not normal for very small units of soldiers). APAs and AKAs differ only in number of troop spaces - a PA can house up to 2000 men - a KA a fifth of that under American standards - and normally they carry half of theoretical capacity.

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RE: AK versus AP ship for invasion - 4/30/2006 7:02:57 PM   
m10bob


Posts: 8622
Joined: 11/3/2002
From: Dismal Seepage Indiana
Status: offline 		O.K., in real life, we know what an APA is..How is it treated in the game?
While it is "labelled" as an AP, I wonder if the game actually treats it more like an AK, or like an AP, or if it is handled entirely seperate.
Too bad it was not labelled as an APA which would allow a quicker ID for those of us creating convoys....
I try to avoid putting AP's in assault waves, but when I saw the aforementioned Callaway had been listed as an "AP", I knew there was a problem.............

http://www.navsource.org/archives/10/03035.htm

< Message edited by m10bob -- 4/30/2006 7:08:28 PM >

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RE: AK versus AP ship for invasion - 4/30/2006 7:39:52 PM   
madmickey

 

Posts: 1336
Joined: 2/11/2004
From: Calgary, Alberta
Status: offline 		Actually in the game they are labeled as APA but I do not think they have an advantage in amount of troops landed in a day over AP or AK ships. For landing on enemy held beaches the game understates what an APA can do and overstates what AP and AK ships can do. APA ships were so valuable in the Pacific that crews had little break from operations. After 1943 AP & AK ship may be used in invasion but they would carried base forces, engineers and supply that would be landed after beaches are secured. Large APA ship would carry 1500 troops plus supplies, medium APA would carry a battalion 800 troop.

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