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Automatic attacks are killing me

 
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Automatic attacks are killing me - 5/12/2006 12:17:49 PM   
MarcA


Posts: 1181
Joined: 3/2/2005
From: England
Status: offline 		I have a couple of situations, in different games, both v1.8, where the computer is setting my troops to automatic deliberate or shock attack. The trouble is in one game his troops have no retreat path and do not own the base and hence are not surrendering and I am taking a pounding. In the other game my troops are only achiveing odds of 0:1 and, oddly enough, taking a pounding. I can't recover enough fatigue or disruption to utilise them to full effectiveness.

Is there anything I can do about this? And is it my imagination or does this seem to be more common under v1.8.

< Message edited by mantill -- 5/12/2006 12:19:59 PM >

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RE: Automatic attacks are killing me - 5/12/2006 1:31:48 PM   
Speedysteve

 

Posts: 15998
Joined: 9/11/2001
From: Reading, England
Status: offline 		Hi mantill a bit more info please. Which base/location is this at? Does it involve river crossings? Atoll? Etc

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RE: Automatic attacks are killing me - 5/12/2006 1:48:22 PM   
NemRod

 

Posts: 124
Joined: 12/24/2004
Status: offline 		Be carefull with eng units and all units with no artillery. When you switch all units from deliberate or shock attack to bombardments, these units, having no guns, don't bombard and stay with deliberate/shock attack orders.Are all your units concerned by these automatic attacks?

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RE: Automatic attacks are killing me - 5/12/2006 1:49:38 PM   
Speedysteve

 

Posts: 15998
Joined: 9/11/2001
From: Reading, England
Status: offline 		Good point. Tank units can also have this problem

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RE: Automatic attacks are killing me - 5/12/2006 2:27:36 PM   
michaelm75au


Posts: 13500
Joined: 5/5/2001
From: Melbourne, Australia
Status: offline 		Yea. I tend to set All to defend, and then go issue bombard or any other orders.

Michael

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RE: Automatic attacks are killing me - 5/12/2006 4:13:55 PM   
MarcA


Posts: 1181
Joined: 3/2/2005
From: England
Status: offline 		I have just checked one of my games, the combat report is below. This consisted of 4 chinese corp and 1 tank bn attacking a Jap brigade and I think a mong div fragment. (The hex N of Changsha). No units entered the combat. All my units have been in this hex for at least three turns and when they did eneter they did not cross the river to do so. I chose a shock attack last turn and got reasonable results, 3:1. This time I ordered a bombardment attack but was over ruled and got the living snot kicked out me. I have checked and all my corps say bombard and the tank bn says defend.

Ground combat at 46,35

Allied Shock attack

Attacking force 29900 troops, 108 guns, 60 vehicles, Beginning Assault Value = 891

Defending force 13052 troops, 123 guns, 0 vehicles, Beginning Assault Value = 268

Allied max assault: 120 - adjusted assault: 10

Japanese max defense: 269 - adjusted defense: 304

Allied assault odds: 0 to 1


Japanese ground losses:
15 casualties reported

Allied ground losses:
94 casualties reported
Vehicles lost 7

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RE: Automatic attacks are killing me - 5/12/2006 5:46:20 PM   
Grotius


Posts: 5798
Joined: 10/18/2002
From: The Imperial Palace.
Status: offline 		Now that you mention it, I'm playing as Japan in the 1943 campaign vs the Allied AI, and we're fighting a bloody ground battle on Munda. I have repeatedly ordered my guys just to "Defend" because I'm completely out of supply. But the game keeps having my guys bombard! Maybe bombarding is a better decision tactically, but it wasn't *my* decision. Is this working as designed? I probably can gin up a savegame if need be.

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RE: Automatic attacks are killing me - 5/12/2006 7:16:53 PM   
NemRod

 

Posts: 124
Joined: 12/24/2004
Status: offline 		Mantill, what you describe seems to be exactly the situation I was speaking about. Check your tank unit, it ignored you bombarment ( no artillery)order and stayed on shock attack. The other units were doing bombarments and probably haven't suffered much casualties. But your tank unit should be highly disabled.

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RE: Automatic attacks are killing me - 5/12/2006 9:27:01 PM   
MarcA


Posts: 1181
Joined: 3/2/2005
From: England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NemRod

Mantill, what you describe seems to be exactly the situation I was speaking about. Check your tank unit, it ignored you bombarment ( no artillery)order and stayed on shock attack. The other units were doing bombarments and probably haven't suffered much casualties. But your tank unit should be highly disabled.


Nemrod the tank unit is on defense, I checked.

I have an example from another game where I have 4 chinese corps surrounded at Hsingyang, I own the base, and the computer has put in 5 deliberate attacks in, one after the other.

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RE: Automatic attacks are killing me - 5/12/2006 9:34:56 PM   
mlees


Posts: 2263
Joined: 9/20/2003
From: San Diego
Status: offline 		The "Order all to defend/attack" buttons usually work, but sometimes not. I have no idea why. The "follow" command has some notoriety for bugginess. I always select each unit, and set it's orders as desired. Tedious, but I have much fewer "WTF?" moments that way.

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RE: Automatic attacks are killing me - 5/12/2006 10:00:23 PM   
NemRod

 

Posts: 124
Joined: 12/24/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mantill


Nemrod the tank unit is on defense, I checked.


PRECISELY! The tank unit is on defense as it should be after shock attaking ALONE and being highly disrupted.What's important is to compare disruption and disablement of the tank unit with the other units doing only bombardments. A significant difference means you are in the case I described.

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RE: Automatic attacks are killing me - 5/12/2006 10:22:32 PM   
MarcA


Posts: 1181
Joined: 3/2/2005
From: England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NemRod


quote:

ORIGINAL: mantill


Nemrod the tank unit is on defense, I checked.


PRECISELY! The tank unit is on defense as it should be after shock attaking ALONE and being highly disrupted.What's important is to compare disruption and disablement of the tank unit with the other units doing only bombardments. A significant difference means you are in the case I described.


I don't need to check the disbalement and disruption to know the tanks shock attacked. The words "Shock Attack" in the combat report and 7 dead tanks give it away.

Why did they revert to defense this time and not the turn previous in which they also shock attacked.

And what about the second case where I have a group of units surrounded and the computer keeps ordering my men to deliberate attack. Most of my forces and going to several weeks of rest to recover from that one.

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RE: Automatic attacks are killing me - 5/12/2006 10:46:44 PM   
NemRod

 

Posts: 124
Joined: 12/24/2004
Status: offline 		Only the comparison of disablement and disruption between the units with artillery and the ones with no artillery can tell you if you are in the case I told you.
Anyway, never switch directly to bombardment. Put your units on defense first and then on bombardment.I forget it from time to time and regularly see my eng units completly disrupted by stupid attacks. It would be very surprising it never happened to you if you weren't aware of this little trap.
Of course it could be something else, but it is worth checking IMHO.

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Post #: 13
RE: Automatic attacks are killing me - 5/12/2006 10:53:38 PM   
tabpub


Posts: 1019
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From: The Greater Chicagoland Area
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quote:

Why did they revert to defense this time and not the turn previous in which they also shock attacked.


Well, if I follow your timeline correctly, they had the 3:1 result in the first attack. Any time an attack is at 1:1 or better, it will be maintained automatically for the next resolution, unless overridden.

what happened, as has been mentioned, is that you overrode the prior shock attack orders by switching to bombardment via the "all" method. The tank unit, not having any bombardment factor, maintained the prior order, attacked and was reverted to defense after the 0:1 attack.

Yes, bad design; using the "all bombard" order should revert all attackers to either bombard or defense if they have no bombardment capability.
But, that is not how it works. So, if this was the FAA ruling on a plane crash, it would read "OPERATOR ERROR".......

As to the other situation, perhaps moving out enough units to the point where you don't outnumber him so much? This is merely a suggestion; haven't run into this one personally yet.

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RE: Automatic attacks are killing me - 5/12/2006 10:59:51 PM   
MarcA


Posts: 1181
Joined: 3/2/2005
From: England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tabpub
Well, if I follow your timeline correctly, they had the 3:1 result in the first attack. Any time an attack is at 1:1 or better, it will be maintained automatically for the next resolution, unless overridden.


It all becomes clear. There is always something new to learn in this game.



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RE: Automatic attacks are killing me - 5/12/2006 11:49:29 PM   
NemRod

 

Posts: 124
Joined: 12/24/2004
Status: offline 		I'm not completly sure, but I believe units are maintained automatically on shock/deliberate attack till they reach 50 disruption .So, some stronger or fresher units can continue attacking automatically while others switch to defense even after a 0:1 result .But most of time it will revert to what Tabpub says.

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Post #: 16
RE: Automatic attacks are killing me - 5/13/2006 4:18:51 AM   
Sonny

 

Posts: 2008
Joined: 4/3/2002
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Grotius

Now that you mention it, I'm playing as Japan in the 1943 campaign vs the Allied AI, and we're fighting a bloody ground battle on Munda. I have repeatedly ordered my guys just to "Defend" because I'm completely out of supply. But the game keeps having my guys bombard! Maybe bombarding is a better decision tactically, but it wasn't *my* decision. Is this working as designed? I probably can gin up a savegame if need be.


If an enemy lands troops during a turn your troop automatically bombard. Really pisses me off but that is the way it goes.

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