Upgrading 2005 to 2007

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Upgrading 2005 to 2007 - 5/13/2006 12:31:28 AM

KG Erwin

Posts: 8981
Joined: 7/25/2000
From: Cross Lanes WV USA
Status: offline

Maybe a premature question, but will previous owners of Pure Sim be obtaining new serial numbers for PS2007? Will it be necessary to uninstall PS2005 or just let the new version overwrite the old one?

I ask this because of the contents of my Mods folder -- I have all those facepacks, ballparks etc in there. Would it be safer to just move all that "stuff" to a separate folder, delete PS2005, and start anew when PS2007 becomes available?

I have no "carry-over" associations going at present.

Post #: 1

RE: Upgrading 2005 to 2007 - 5/13/2006 12:47:43 AM

Amaroq

Posts: 1100
Joined: 8/3/2005
From: San Diego, California
Status: offline

I expect that you should be able to have 2005 and 2007 installed on the same computer, concurrently, and that you will get a new serial number for 2007 - I can't say for certain, obviously.

I installed the beta on a new / clean machine, but brought my PS2005 "Mods", "PSA", "Ballparks", and other folders over - and had no trouble getting 2007 to work with them.

I also upgraded one association from 2005 to 2007 to make sure it worked, so those who want 'carry-over' associations should be able to do that.

(in reply to KG Erwin)

Post #: 2

RE: Upgrading 2005 to 2007 - 5/13/2006 8:24:21 PM

puresimmer

Posts: 2299
Joined: 7/24/2005
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The 2007 version should be installed to a new folder (which it does by default). At that point you can copy over any .psa files from previous versions of the game. PureSim 2007 is 100% compatible with previous versions' associations -- they will be upgraded automatically the first time you use them.

You will get a new serial numnber for 2007 and yes, the 2005 and 2007 versions can both be run on the same machine, though once you go to 2007 you won't want to go back to 2005 :)

_____________________________

Developer, PureSim Baseball

(in reply to Amaroq)

Post #: 3

RE: Upgrading 2005 to 2007 - 5/14/2006 12:25:41 AM

Amaroq

Posts: 1100
Joined: 8/3/2005
From: San Diego, California
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: puresimmer
though once you go to 2007 you won't want to go back to 2005

I can attest to that - Shaun's had the beta builds on time-expiry - at one point, with my beta build expired but the next one not yet ready, I tried going back to '05.. and found I missed a lot of the new features!

(in reply to puresimmer)

Post #: 4

RE: Upgrading 2005 to 2007 - 5/16/2006 6:43:26 PM

kisner

Posts: 24
Joined: 3/29/2005
Status: offline

During last year's playoffs, I purchased PS'05. I felt like a beta-tester who had paid for the priviledge, but the updates eventually produced a stable game that worked fairly well.

Now I read that PS'07 is for sale. I cannot imagine that Matrix expects me to pay for this update, but cannot find anything in the announcement about upgrade. If I'm going to have to pay for an upgrade every 9 months, I'll stick with programs that justify their expense with a licence from the player's association.

It's a plain rip-off to ask me to pay for an upgrade before even one season has passed. And if this was the plan all along, it's a rip-off not to have made it clear that annual upgrades would not be free. I know I'll never pay another nickle for Ps, and this shakes my confidence in Matrix to the core.

(in reply to Amaroq)

Post #: 5

RE: Upgrading 2005 to 2007 - 5/16/2006 6:47:15 PM

Erik Rutins

Posts: 37503
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: Vermont, USA
Status: offline

PureSim 2005 Gold, the first release through Matrix, was actually a free upgrade for most PureSim 2005 customers. PureSim 2007 has come a long way since 2005 and is a new, separate release. The reason we ask for money is so that development can continue, our families can eat food, our dogs aren't left homeless, etc.

In all seriousness, most sports games go through a fairly frequent new release cycle, to keep up with changes in the sport and each new season. I would have thought that offering our first release as a free upgrade for 2005 customers would have taken care of the "rip-off" charge, but apparently not. I'm sorry you feel that way, but at $29.99 we aren't exactly asking for an arm and a leg for all the new features and the fully licensed Lahman database that PureSim 2007 includes. We encourage you to read the new features and decide whether you feel it's worth your money. No one is forcing you to buy the new release if you're happy with 2005 Gold.

Regards,

- Erik

< Message edited by Erik Rutins -- 5/16/2006 6:50:40 PM >

_____________________________

Erik Rutins
CEO, Matrix Games LLC

For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

Freedom is not Free.

(in reply to kisner)

Post #: 6

RE: Upgrading 2005 to 2007 - 5/16/2006 7:00:13 PM

kisner

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Joined: 3/29/2005
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I bought PS from Matrix during last year's playoffs. It wasn't free.

Looking back, I made a terrible mistake. I should have realized the "year" in the game title meant "annual update", but since the whole thrust of the game seemed to be "buy it once and play the entire history of baseball" it just never occured to me that you were expecting the same customers to pay over and over for it.

PS was OK for $30. It got me a hundred years of baseball and eventually seemed to work fine. I have every reason to think the game is even better in PS'07, but I'll wait for the finished software rather than buying it by the spoonful.

(in reply to Erik Rutins)

Post #: 7

RE: Upgrading 2005 to 2007 - 5/16/2006 7:07:47 PM

SlapBone

Posts: 269
Joined: 7/27/2004
From: Houston, TX
Status: offline

But what about us that bought the game ...just...last....month? No way I would have purchased if had known that the new one was coming out so soon.

_____________________________

(in reply to kisner)

Post #: 8

RE: Upgrading 2005 to 2007 - 5/16/2006 7:37:22 PM

KG Erwin

Posts: 8981
Joined: 7/25/2000
From: Cross Lanes WV USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SlapBone

But what about us that bought the game ...just...last....month? No way I would have purchased if had known that the new one was coming out so soon.

PS 2006 (now known as PS2007) has been a frequently discussed topic for several months. Can't blame Matrix if you weren't keeping up with the news.

(in reply to SlapBone)

Post #: 9

RE: Upgrading 2005 to 2007 - 5/16/2006 8:04:41 PM

puresimmer

Posts: 2299
Joined: 7/24/2005
Status: offline

I'm sorry you feel that way, but I just wanted to present my/Matrix's (umm Is it "Matrices'" lol) side of this

1. You paid for, and apparently are enjoying PS 2005. With the release of PS 2007 we are not forcing anyone to upgrade like might be the case in an online game or something. You can continue to play PS 2005 and enjoy your investment.

2. With PS 2005 I added over 50 free features and tweaks from the day it was released as PureSim 2005 v1.0 through the Matrix 2005 Gold Edition, which itself had another ton of new features piled on. The Matrix Edition was then offered as a free upgrade to anybody that purchased PureSim 2005. Many other vendors would consider the amount of updates I do as "expansion packs" and charge for them. Ironically, this comes back to bite me since it sometimes reduces the impact of the differences between major versions.

3. I need to fund the efforts I expend each year with developing the game. I provide information throughout the development process so folks can look at what is coming in a major update and determine if that is enough to warrant buying a new year's version. It simply would not be economically feasible to offer unlimited annual free upgrades.

4. Support for PS 2005 continues. Though, it is true it will get minmal focus moving forward.

I do understand that it would be frustrating if you bought "late in the window" of PureSim 2005's release cycle. I don't have a great answer for that, but your concerns are duly noted.

Shaun

_____________________________

Developer, PureSim Baseball

(in reply to kisner)

Post #: 10

RE: Upgrading 2005 to 2007 - 5/16/2006 8:35:14 PM

tbear2b

Posts: 140
Joined: 8/28/2005
Status: offline

2 things

quote:

2. With PS 2005 I added over 50 free features and tweaks from the day it was released as PureSim 2005 v1.0 through the Matrix 2005 Gold Edition, which itself had another ton of new features piled on. The Matrix Edition was then offered as a free upgrade to anybody that purchased PureSim 2005. Many other vendors would consider the amount of updates I do as "expansion packs" and charge for them. Ironically, this comes back to bite me since it sometimes reduces the impact of the differences between major versions.

1)I completely agree with this being a HUGE part of the reason to buy this game each year. Shaun constantly updates the game throughout the year and piles on new features.

2) A note for Matrixgames: Perhaps some of the confusion could have been avoided by separating the forums into 2007 and 2005 discussions. I knew what was going on with the new release (and already had Gold Edition PS2005), but since the PureSim forum starts off with a bunch of general links, and then a direct link to buy PS2005, it might have been somewhat confusing. That said, the fact that the new version was shortly coming out was also noted quite a bit on this forum. On the flip side, since PS was moved to Matrixgames in the middle of the year (in terms of releasing a baseball game) rather than right before the new version came out, that might have thrown people off as well. Hmm...an unfortunate conundrum.

(in reply to KG Erwin)

Post #: 11

RE: Upgrading 2005 to 2007 - 5/16/2006 8:44:52 PM

Amaroq

Posts: 1100
Joined: 8/3/2005
From: San Diego, California
Status: offline

That, and the big "2005 Gold 1.21 Released!" thread, with an apparent date of March, might be a big eye-catching draw. Can we get that *unstickied*, please?

Also, having a sticky indicating when the next version is expected, and what the upgrade path/cost will be, might be a nice forum-feature. (E.g., in March, it might have read "Next version, PureSim 2007, is expected to ship mid-May, and will sell for a full retail price. There will be no 'upgrade' discount for 2005 owners."..... today, it might read "Next version, PureSim 2007 1.1, does not yet have a target ship date, but will be avilable as a free upgrade for owners of PureSim 2007.")

(in reply to tbear2b)

Post #: 12

RE: Upgrading 2005 to 2007 - 5/16/2006 8:58:14 PM

MizzouRah_slith

Posts: 85
Joined: 8/20/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kisner

I bought PS from Matrix during last year's playoffs. It wasn't free.

Looking back, I made a terrible mistake. I should have realized the "year" in the game title meant "annual update", but since the whole thrust of the game seemed to be "buy it once and play the entire history of baseball" it just never occured to me that you were expecting the same customers to pay over and over for it.

PS was OK for $30. It got me a hundred years of baseball and eventually seemed to work fine. I have every reason to think the game is even better in PS'07, but I'll wait for the finished software rather than buying it by the spoonful.

quote:

I'm not getting envolved in aguments, but how do you expect a developer to pay for his time upgrading the game?

I paid for it too, what's the point? PS 2007 is a new version of the game and Shaun was still updating the old version much later than most developers do. Most developers come out with a new editions of games every year so I don't see why you're so upset at Matrix games or Shaun.

(in reply to kisner)

Post #: 13

RE: Upgrading 2005 to 2007 - 5/17/2006 12:09:05 AM

SlapBone

Posts: 269
Joined: 7/27/2004
From: Houston, TX
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: puresimmer

I do understand that it would be frustrating if you bought "late in the window" of PureSim 2005's release cycle. I don't have a great answer for that, but your concerns are duly noted.

I absolutely have an answer this problem. No more of my hard-earned money will go to fund YOU! It may not be that big of a deal to you but I have earned the right to bitch:

quote:

Starshatter
War In The Pacific
Battles In Normandy
Tin Soldiers: Alexander the Great
Gates of Troy
Flashpoint Germany
Gary Grigsby's World At War
Supremacy: Four Paths To Power
Gary Grigsby's World At War
Tin Soldiers: Julius Caesar
Reach for the Stars
Battles in Italy
Crown of Glory: Europe in the Age of Napoleon
Starships Unlimited v3
War Plan Orange: Dreadnoughts in the Pacific 1922 - 1930
Star Chamber: The Harbinger Saga

My last Puresim should be on that list as well but they pulled the support for it from the "Members" area.

_____________________________

(in reply to puresimmer)

Post #: 14

RE: Upgrading 2005 to 2007 - 5/17/2006 12:12:33 AM

SlapBone

Posts: 269
Joined: 7/27/2004
From: Houston, TX
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SlapBone

My last Puresim should be on that list as well but they pulled the support for it from the "Members" area.

Now that I'm looking closer what the hell is up with this? No registered downloads or anything else in the member's area.

_____________________________

(in reply to SlapBone)

Post #: 15

RE: Upgrading 2005 to 2007 - 5/17/2006 12:15:39 AM

Erik Rutins

Posts: 37503
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: Vermont, USA
Status: offline

Everyone,

We're reading and noting the concerns in this thread. I'd like to mention a few things:

1. PureSim 2006/7 was being discussed here for months before release. That's why we didn't create a new forum, so that discussion of the upcoming release would be easy to find.

2. We're going to work with Shaun to be as clear as we can about future releases. Posting more announcements way ahead of time should help with this.

3. We have not discontinued support of PureSim 2005 Gold. We had a Members Area issue that I am resolving today which should allow both to continue to co-exist in there and the PureSim 2005 Gold updates remain online in our FTP server, as do the add-ons and discussion in this forum. This forum remains as support for the PureSim series, as released through Matrix Games and we firmly believe that each release is worth its price given how quickly Shaun works and how much he adds to each release.

4. We are looking into doing something for customers who just recently purchased PureSim 2005 Gold without realizing that 2007 was on its way. I can't promise anything yet and it would have to be done in coordination with Shaun, but we are going to discuss this and see if we can come up with a good solution.

Regards,

- Erik

_____________________________

Erik Rutins
CEO, Matrix Games LLC

For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

Freedom is not Free.

(in reply to SlapBone)

Post #: 16

RE: Upgrading 2005 to 2007 - 5/17/2006 12:29:05 AM

puresimmer

Posts: 2299
Joined: 7/24/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SlapBone

quote:

ORIGINAL: puresimmer

I do understand that it would be frustrating if you bought "late in the window" of PureSim 2005's release cycle. I don't have a great answer for that, but your concerns are duly noted.

I absolutely have an answer this problem. No more of my hard-earned money will go to fund YOU! It may not be that big of a deal to you but I have earned the right to bitch:

quote:

Starshatter
War In The Pacific
Battles In Normandy
Tin Soldiers: Alexander the Great
Gates of Troy
Flashpoint Germany
Gary Grigsby's World At War
Supremacy: Four Paths To Power
Gary Grigsby's World At War
Tin Soldiers: Julius Caesar
Reach for the Stars
Battles in Italy
Crown of Glory: Europe in the Age of Napoleon
Starships Unlimited v3
War Plan Orange: Dreadnoughts in the Pacific 1922 - 1930
Star Chamber: The Harbinger Saga

My last Puresim should be on that list as well but they pulled the support for it from the "Members" area.

quote:

I absolutely have an answer this problem. No more of my hard-earned money will go to fund YOU! It may not be that big of a deal to you but I have earned the right to bitch:

I hope my response didn't appear flippant. If it were not a big deal I would not have responded or mentioned that your concerns were duly noted. I just don't have a great answer for you right now.

_____________________________

Developer, PureSim Baseball

(in reply to SlapBone)

Post #: 17

RE: Upgrading 2005 to 2007 - 5/17/2006 12:29:11 AM

kisner

Posts: 24
Joined: 3/29/2005
Status: offline

I've bought several games from Matrix over the years. They've never tried to sell me a new version of the same game, at least not before PS Baseball.

It's essentially one of those "glass half empty or full" things. I bought a game last fall that seemed very raw -- it didn't "sim" very well and was buggy -- and eventually the designer made changes that made the game perform better. Some people see this as incredible support and free enhancements; I just saw a game that didn't work as a sim until those fixes were made (and still didn't seem to handle pre-1900 without crashing, but maybe that eventually got fixed before I gave up).

Matrix should have waited until the game's design was more polished before releasing it, and should also have made it clear that a new version of the game would be published (with no upgrade path) for the 2006 season. That said, I would probably pay to play some games during their development -- World in Flames, for instance -- so maybe you guys are onto something with the way you've published PS Baseball.

(in reply to MizzouRah_slith)

Post #: 18

RE: Upgrading 2005 to 2007 - 5/17/2006 12:35:27 AM

Erik Rutins

Posts: 37503
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: Vermont, USA
Status: offline

kisner,

PureSim Baseball 2005 Gold has been very stable since release. Did you report the issues you were seeing? PureSim and many other sports games have yearly releases as a rule. It was never anyone's intention to conceal or confuse this fact and discussions on the 2006 release started much earlier this year.

2005 Gold v1.21 is extremely stable and functional for me - are you still having problems with that? I guess where I'm having a problem understanding some of the complaints is that 2007 is in no way a "forced upgrade". If 2005 Gold works for you, just keep using it. If you feel the new features in 2007 are worth $30, then please by all means support the ongoing development and buy the new release.

It's your choice.

Regards,

- Erik

_____________________________

Erik Rutins
CEO, Matrix Games LLC

For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

Freedom is not Free.

(in reply to kisner)

Post #: 19

RE: Upgrading 2005 to 2007 - 5/17/2006 1:13:52 AM

kisner

Posts: 24
Joined: 3/29/2005
Status: offline

The "Gold" edition of PS Baseball 2005 went through several major updates after I bought it during the playoffs. There was a big fix released around Thanksgiving and another in mid-December that seemed to solve most problems, but there was a cost: pre-1900 players couldn't be used anymore. Oddly enough, I rapidly lost interest in de-bugging the software once winter settled in. Glad to hear that fix issued in early 2006 took care of the rest of that "Gold" edition's problems.

One final comment: like many of your customers, I don't regularly waste time on these message boards. I popped in last fall a few times, because my PS Baseball game was crashing a lot and I had some trouble figuring things out. Now, six months later I pop in to find out why I seem to have to pay for the new edition of the game. I don't think you deliberately deceived me -- you just "assumed" that since Strat-O-Matic comes out with a new edition every year, I'd be cool with a new edition of PS Baseball -- but in the future try to make this kind of stuff clear.

(in reply to Erik Rutins)

Post #: 20