Detaching from HQ: impossible?

Matrix Games Forums

Forums Register Login Photo Gallery Member List Search Calendars FAQ

My Profile Inbox Address Book My Subscription My Forums Log Out

Detaching from HQ: impossible?

View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest

Users viewing this topic: none

Printable Version

All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> Steel Panthers World At War & Mega Campaigns >> SP:WaW Training Center >> Detaching from HQ: impossible?

Page: [1] 2 next > >>

Message

<< Older Topic Newer Topic >>

Detaching from HQ: impossible? - 5/26/2006 1:57:36 PM

apollonius

Posts: 9
Joined: 5/26/2006
Status: offline

Hello!
I made the mistake of attaching some units to my general HQ (formation A). Now I can't get them out of there any more. It says: "Support and auxiliary units may not be assigned new HQs." Will I have to live with that? Can it be undone?
Also, sometimes, certain units will refuse to be detached from their formation, but the very same unit will comply when I try some minutes later. What are the exact rules for when you are allowed to transfer a unit from one HQ to another? Other than the fact that the unit must not be a support unit, I mean.

Thanks! :-)

< Message edited by apollonius -- 5/26/2006 2:00:56 PM >

Post #: 1

RE: Detaching from HQ: impossible? - 5/26/2006 2:06:22 PM

Don Doom

Posts: 2446
Joined: 9/23/2000
From: Lost somewhere in the upper backwoods of Michigan!
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: apollonius

Hello!
I made the mistake of attaching some units to my general HQ (formation A). Now I can't get them out of there any more. It says: "Support and auxiliary units may not be assigned new HQs." Will I have to live with that? Can it be undone?
Also, sometimes, certain units will refuse to be detached from their formation, but the very same unit will comply when I try some minutes later. What are the exact rules for when you are allowed to transfer a unit from one HQ to another? Other than the fact that the unit must not be a support unit, I mean.

Another question: Is it possible to disable the intro movies?

Thanks! :-)

Well lets see, as long as the units are not marked aux/reinforment/support units you can move them from one HQ to another with no problem.
First delete the steel.prf file in your save file. That may be causing some of your problems. A new one will be made as soon as you go back into the game.
But alas you cannot just detach they without assigning them to a new HQ. There is probly more info in the manual.

_____________________________

Doom
Vet of the Russian General Winter
For death is only the begining

(in reply to apollonius)

Post #: 2

RE: Detaching from HQ: impossible? - 5/26/2006 8:37:27 PM

apollonius

Posts: 9
Joined: 5/26/2006
Status: offline

Hello!
Thanks for the reply! :-)
Alas, deleting that file didn't help. I still can't transfer any unit away from formation A. I can do that for all other formations, except formation A (the one with the general HQ and the Colonel).
Is it possible to edit the savegame somehow?

EDIT: I never wanted to create a new formation. I just want to transfer a unit from one formation to another.

< Message edited by apollonius -- 5/26/2006 9:27:50 PM >

(in reply to Don Doom)

Post #: 3

RE: Detaching from HQ: impossible? - 5/26/2006 9:41:58 PM

Don Doom

Posts: 2446
Joined: 9/23/2000
From: Lost somewhere in the upper backwoods of Michigan!
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: apollonius

Hello!
Thanks for the reply! :-)
Alas, deleting that file didn't help. I still can't transfer any unit away from formation A. I can do that for all other formations, except formation A (the one with the general HQ and the Colonel).
Is it possible to edit the savegame somehow?

EDIT: I never wanted to create a new formation. I just want to transfer a unit from one formation to another.

Step 1] Go into the save folder and rename the save000.dat file to scen000.dat or to a empty scen slot you have.
step 2] move said file to the scen folder.
step 3] Start game and go into the editor and load the save/scen file. Don't worry if it does not show up just click the slot and then hit load.
step 4] them go into the deploy sceen and them use the "w" key to move the units you want to move.
step 6] Save you file. and then go back and rename it back and them move it back to the saved folder and then play.

_____________________________

Doom
Vet of the Russian General Winter
For death is only the begining

(in reply to apollonius)

Post #: 4

RE: Detaching from HQ: impossible? - 5/27/2006 3:52:10 PM

apollonius

Posts: 9
Joined: 5/26/2006
Status: offline

Thank you, Don Doom!
Unfortunately, not even the editor allowed me to transfer units away from my HQ formation. But I still learned a nice trick to use in the future, thanks! :-)

(in reply to Don Doom)

Post #: 5

RE: Detaching from HQ: impossible? - 5/27/2006 4:05:25 PM

Don Doom

Posts: 2446
Joined: 9/23/2000
From: Lost somewhere in the upper backwoods of Michigan!
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: apollonius

Thank you, Don Doom!
Unfortunately, not even the editor allowed me to transfer units away from my HQ formation. But I still learned a nice trick to use in the future, thanks! :-)

Can you zip the .dat file and send it to me by pm and I will take a look at it.

_____________________________

Doom
Vet of the Russian General Winter
For death is only the begining

(in reply to apollonius)

Post #: 6

RE: Detaching from HQ: impossible? - 5/27/2006 4:11:00 PM

Goblin

Posts: 5547
Joined: 3/29/2002
From: Erie,Pa. USA
Status: offline

You going soft on me Doom? Turning into a Nice Guy?

If so, we're over, and I won't take you back, even if you send me flowers.

Goblin

_____________________________

http://www.spwaw.com/phpBB2/index.php

(in reply to Don Doom)

Post #: 7

RE: Detaching from HQ: impossible? - 5/28/2006 12:19:03 AM

azraelck

Posts: 581
Joined: 1/16/2006
Status: offline

That is more disturbing than I care to contemplate.

(in reply to Goblin)

Post #: 8

RE: Detaching from HQ: impossible? - 5/28/2006 12:35:31 AM

Don Doom

Posts: 2446
Joined: 9/23/2000
From: Lost somewhere in the upper backwoods of Michigan!
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Goblin

You going soft on me Doom? Turning into a Nice Guy?

If so, we're over, and I won't take you back, even if you send me flowers.

Goblin

Gobby,Gobby, Gobby

_____________________________

Doom
Vet of the Russian General Winter
For death is only the begining

(in reply to Goblin)

Post #: 9

RE: Detaching from HQ: impossible? - 5/28/2006 8:52:57 AM

Goblin

Posts: 5547
Joined: 3/29/2002
From: Erie,Pa. USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: azraelck

That is more disturbing than I care to contemplate.

I just got rid of Doom, and you're sweet talking me already?!?! Give a night-critter time to adjust to being Doomless...

_____________________________

http://www.spwaw.com/phpBB2/index.php

(in reply to azraelck)

Post #: 10

RE: Detaching from HQ: impossible? - 5/28/2006 1:45:35 PM

azraelck

Posts: 581
Joined: 1/16/2006
Status: offline

*points 75mm M3 at goblin*

I don't do sweet talking... [>:)]

(in reply to Goblin)

Post #: 11

RE: Detaching from HQ: impossible? - 5/28/2006 2:49:07 PM

apollonius

Posts: 9
Joined: 5/26/2006
Status: offline

quote:

Can you zip the .dat file and send it to me by pm and I will take a look at it.

Hi!
Unfortunately, that's no longer possible. I got so frustrated that I started a new campaign, overwriting the savegame. :-D
But you can easly duplicate the issue yourself. Just transfer any unit to formation A (the one with your colonel in it), and try to transfer it away again. It won't work. I tried it in my new campaign, just to see if it would happen again, and it did.

(in reply to azraelck)

Post #: 12

RE: Detaching from HQ: impossible? - 5/28/2006 4:26:21 PM

FlashfyreSP

Posts: 1193
Joined: 7/6/2002
From: Combat Information Center
Status: offline

I can't duplicate your problem, apollonius.
I started a campaign, bought a core force, assigned the C4 MG unit to the A0 unit, then reassigned it back to the C0 formation.

At what point are trying to reassign one of the units in the A0 formation? During the first Deploy, or after a battle has begun? You do know that you cannot perform the Reassign action during a game, only during Deploy?

_____________________________

(in reply to apollonius)

Post #: 13

RE: Detaching from HQ: impossible? - 5/28/2006 9:39:05 PM

Goblin

Posts: 5547
Joined: 3/29/2002
From: Erie,Pa. USA
Status: offline

You also cannot assign from, or to, an AUX unit, just your core force units.

Goblin

_____________________________

http://www.spwaw.com/phpBB2/index.php

(in reply to FlashfyreSP)

Post #: 14

RE: Detaching from HQ: impossible? - 5/29/2006 3:47:30 AM

apollonius

Posts: 9
Joined: 5/26/2006
Status: offline

Well, guess what... I patched to v8.40 and the problem went away. :-)
It seems, it only happens with v8.20.
Anyway, thank you all, guys!

I have a new question now, though. My onboard artillery won't perform indirect bombardment any more. Ever since I upgraded to v8.40, my guns won't show up in the Bombard dialogue. Airplanes and offboard artillery still works, but onboard artillery will only perform direct fire. Is this a bug or a feature? Do I need a forward observer for that now?

(in reply to Goblin)

Post #: 15

RE: Detaching from HQ: impossible? - 5/29/2006 5:06:55 AM

Don Doom

Posts: 2446
Joined: 9/23/2000
From: Lost somewhere in the upper backwoods of Michigan!
Status: offline

which gun's? If they are classed as artillary they should show up.

_____________________________

Doom
Vet of the Russian General Winter
For death is only the begining

(in reply to apollonius)

Post #: 16

RE: Detaching from HQ: impossible? - 5/29/2006 2:17:50 PM

apollonius

Posts: 9
Joined: 5/26/2006
Status: offline

The German 150mm sIG33, and the sIG33 auf Panzer II. They are genuine artillery, in theory, or so I thought.

(in reply to Don Doom)

Post #: 17

RE: Detaching from HQ: impossible? - 5/29/2006 5:23:30 PM

FlashfyreSP

Posts: 1193
Joined: 7/6/2002
From: Combat Information Center
Status: offline

No, those are SP Guns. SP Guns are a direct-fire only class. A unit has to be Howitzer, Self-Propelled Artillery, Offboard Artillery, or one of the Mortar classes in order to perform indirect bombardments.

_____________________________

(in reply to apollonius)

Post #: 18

RE: Detaching from HQ: impossible? - 5/30/2006 9:48:30 PM

apollonius

Posts: 9
Joined: 5/26/2006
Status: offline

Ow...! I'll have to RTFM more carefully...
What use are those weapons anyway? I mean, they don't have mobility, they can only shoot 3 rounds per turn (if you're lucky), they suffer huge suppression when under fire, and now they can't even perform indirect bombardment (I swear, they were capable of indirect fire in 8.20)? Do they have any redeeming qualities? Do they fill a specific role, or do they only exist because they're cheap?

I checked the "150mm sIG33" in the encyclopedia, and it doesn't read "SP artillery" there. The "sIG33 auf Pz I" is marked as SP artillery, though. Shouldn't there be a difference? One is a SP gun (by the way, what does "SP" mean?), the other is not. Yet they both are incapable of indirect fire.

< Message edited by apollonius -- 5/30/2006 10:05:32 PM >

(in reply to FlashfyreSP)

Post #: 19

RE: Detaching from HQ: impossible? - 5/30/2006 10:40:59 PM

FlashfyreSP

Posts: 1193
Joined: 7/6/2002
From: Combat Information Center
Status: offline

OK, the Encyclopedia entries haven't all been updated recently. Some things, actually a lot of things, have changed since most of those entries were written some 3-4 years ago.

"SP" stands for "Self-Propelled". Used to indicate a piece of artillery that is mounted on a self-propelling mount.
As for what use are they? Direct support of infantry was what their job was. Considering the maximum range of the sIG33 weapon, which was NOT a howitzer, was only 4700 meters, it's use in the game as an indirect artillery piece is highly questionable. That's about 80 hexes...not enough for offboard artillery barrages.

One problem with these determinations is that, in game terms, indirect fire does not just mean lobbing shells over obstructions at "unseen" targets; it means primarily firing from some distance away from the combat zone. Limitations on the way ranges work in-game mean that once you reach a certain game range, every large-caliber artillery howitzer has the same range. Game maximum range value is around 230; that is an OOB data code, which tells us to multiply the last 2 digits (30) by 8 to get the number of hexes of range, in this case 240. Multiply that by 50 meters/hex, and the maximum range of a weapon in the game is 12,000 meters. Many artillery pieces have ranges well in excess of this, yet for game purposes they all have the same range.

So the SP-Gun Unit Class is for weapons whose main purpose is to provide close support or direct fire for other arms, usually the infantry. They are NOT artillery pieces; for that, you would need to buy the Wespe, Lorraine, or Hummel units, which ARE SP Artillery units, and can conduct indirect artillery barrages.

_____________________________

(in reply to apollonius)

Post #: 20

RE: Detaching from HQ: impossible? - 5/30/2006 10:47:21 PM

Don Doom

Posts: 2446
Joined: 9/23/2000
From: Lost somewhere in the upper backwoods of Michigan!
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: apollonius

Ow...! I'll have to RTFM more carefully...
What use are those weapons anyway? I mean, they don't have mobility, they can only shoot 3 rounds per turn (if you're lucky), they suffer huge suppression when under fire, and now they can't even perform indirect bombardment (I swear, they were capable of indirect fire in 8.20)? Do they have any redeeming qualities? Do they fill a specific role, or do they only exist because they're cheap?

I checked the "150mm sIG33" in the encyclopedia, and it doesn't read "SP artillery" there. The "sIG33 auf Pz I" is marked as SP artillery, though. Shouldn't there be a difference? One is a SP gun (by the way, what does "SP" mean?), the other is not. Yet they both are incapable of indirect fire.

Ok.
the 150mm Sig33 is good to support your inf. Use either sdkfz 11's or heavy trucks to haul them behind the inf. Then unload when you hit an roadblock or two with inf supporting them.
SP means self propeled ie like a tank or ht or truck.
Only in HTHfr is this able to be used for indirect. In real life on the 150mm had this capiblity and not the 75mm.
The 150mm Sig33 is the towed version and the sig33 auf pz 1 is the spa version.
spa is self prop. artillary.

_____________________________

Doom
Vet of the Russian General Winter
For death is only the begining

(in reply to apollonius)

Post #: 21

RE: Detaching from HQ: impossible? - 5/31/2006 12:49:52 AM

Don Doom

Posts: 2446
Joined: 9/23/2000
From: Lost somewhere in the upper backwoods of Michigan!
Status: offline

Here is the spa version.

Attachment (1)

_____________________________

Doom
Vet of the Russian General Winter
For death is only the begining

(in reply to Don Doom)

Post #: 22

RE: Detaching from HQ: impossible? - 5/31/2006 12:50:39 AM

Don Doom

Posts: 2446
Joined: 9/23/2000
From: Lost somewhere in the upper backwoods of Michigan!
Status: offline

Here is the towed version.

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Don Doom -- 5/31/2006 12:51:40 AM >

_____________________________

Doom
Vet of the Russian General Winter
For death is only the begining

(in reply to Don Doom)

Post #: 23

RE: Detaching from HQ: impossible? - 5/31/2006 1:29:20 AM

FlashfyreSP

Posts: 1193
Joined: 7/6/2002
From: Combat Information Center
Status: offline

The problem is, Doom, that while we would call the sIG33 auf Pz II a "self-propeled artillery unit" in real life, for game purposes it doesn't work. The range on the weapon is too short for it to be considered in the same group as the 15cm sFH 18 howitzer. Consequently, it falls into the Infantry Gun unit class, which cannot perform indirect barrage fire. So neither the towed version nor the SP one are Artillery pieces, per se; they are Gun classes, and are direct-fire only.

This has more to do with the game's inability to allow indirect fire onboard over obstacles; technically, you should be able to fire these IGs over buildings or hills, within the range of the weapon. But the game doesn't have this; indirect is barrage fire, and direct fire requires LOS to a target. The closest "indirect" fire is that of onboard firing at a hex within LOS but without a valid target; still, LOS to the hex is required.

_____________________________

(in reply to Don Doom)

Post #: 24

RE: Detaching from HQ: impossible? - 5/31/2006 1:42:09 AM

apollonius

Posts: 9
Joined: 5/26/2006
Status: offline

Wow, so much information... Thanks, guys!
Now I have only one more question: what will I have to look for, when I want to buy a SP gun with barrage ability? You already mentioned some German pieces that can do it, but what if I want to play the USMC, or Greece? Do I have to test all the available weapons, or is there some relevant piece of data in the unit description that I have to look for?

(in reply to FlashfyreSP)

Post #: 25

RE: Detaching from HQ: impossible? - 5/31/2006 3:11:03 AM

FlashfyreSP

Posts: 1193
Joined: 7/6/2002
From: Combat Information Center
Status: offline

The Unit Class will tell you. When you look in the Encyclopedia, "mouse over" each unit's button in the list; in the right pane you'll see the unit, plus a lot of its stats. Look under the name: there is the Unit Class. It is this that tells the game how to "operate" the unit; look for SP-Artillery. These are self-propelled units that can fire barrage attacks.

_____________________________

(in reply to apollonius)

Post #: 26

RE: Detaching from HQ: impossible? - 5/31/2006 3:18:36 AM

Don Doom

Posts: 2446
Joined: 9/23/2000
From: Lost somewhere in the upper backwoods of Michigan!
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: FlashfyreSP

The problem is, Doom, that while we would call the sIG33 auf Pz II a "self-propeled artillery unit" in real life, for game purposes it doesn't work. The range on the weapon is too short for it to be considered in the same group as the 15cm sFH 18 howitzer. Consequently, it falls into the Infantry Gun unit class, which cannot perform indirect barrage fire. So neither the towed version nor the SP one are Artillery pieces, per se; they are Gun classes, and are direct-fire only.

This has more to do with the game's inability to allow indirect fire onboard over obstacles; technically, you should be able to fire these IGs over buildings or hills, within the range of the weapon. But the game doesn't have this; indirect is barrage fire, and direct fire requires LOS to a target. The closest "indirect" fire is that of onboard firing at a hex within LOS but without a valid target; still, LOS to the hex is required.

Well flash I was only showing him the difference between the spa and towed. I agree with that for the 75mm version but not for the 150mm. Since most of the pic's and sources[which are the same as yours proberly] say the 150mm sig's where used in an inderect mode also, since they sat closer to the front that the standard artillay did. If they where not right behind the attacking inf or armor. 4-6k yards just about anywhere works for me as indirect fire.

ps: It's not worth arguing about as we both now it will not get fixed anytime soon. We both have our opinions and sources. Lets argue this one out when it is changed in the code some day.

< Message edited by Don Doom -- 5/31/2006 3:29:36 AM >

_____________________________

Doom
Vet of the Russian General Winter
For death is only the begining

(in reply to FlashfyreSP)

Post #: 27

RE: Detaching from HQ: impossible? - 5/31/2006 4:47:06 PM

264rifle

Posts: 168
Joined: 12/5/2004
Status: offline

Uh, Flash, if the 150mm s IG 33 wasn't a howitzer, elevates to over 70 degrees and has a 6 range zone charge system, WHAT WAS IT

just because a French 37mm trench gun (infantry gun) with an elevation of 16 degrees and a fixed charge couldn't shoot indirect is no reason not to allow the guns the guns that could.

Unless I am missing something just call the 150mm sIG 33 a howitzer, give it a range that is apropreate and have done with it. With 2 to a regiment and only 6 of the SP versions to division ( I think

) untill late in the war what is the big deal????

Brumbears and the closed top MK III version are another story.

It may mess up formation selections a little????

THis dosn't really need a code change. Just put the guns in the class that lets them work and put a note in the encyclopedia.

(in reply to Don Doom)

Post #: 28

RE: Detaching from HQ: impossible? - 5/31/2006 5:49:34 PM

264rifle

Posts: 168
Joined: 12/5/2004
Status: offline

Actually, given their short range, they are very well suited to most of our game maps.

Prevents the ludicrous situations from Steel Panthers II were one method of Taking out the opposing artillery (no off board art. in that game) was to drive your Abrams or Challenger to hill top within 2 hexes of your side of the map and then direct fire over the entire battle field to hit the enemy SP guns lined up in the last row of hexes on the other side of the map.

Or if you wanted to be "SPORTING" use your long range tank fire to take out the airdefence units and then use your aircraft to blast the Artillery.

While I am sure many people here can quote me chapter and verse on times that Hummels and Wespes or M-12s and SP 105s fired direct or were only 1000-2000 yds from the action I don't think that was the plan. Putting the divisional Artillery assets so far forward that they are in danger of being counter batteried by 81mm mortars is not too bright.

What the GAME CODE cannot handle is the difference in set up time ( and hitching back up) between Sp guns and towed guns.

Given that ALL guns take one turn to set up there is little difference in SP artillery and towed. In real life it would be 3-20 turns before a towed gun could even fire direct let alone get out the survey stakes needed for indirect fire. Same for moving out of position. The bigger stuff (100mm and above) might take 3-20 turns to get limbered up and a towed out. The SP guns could do either in just a few minutes (1 or 2 turns). Since in the game there is so little difference , WE (the gamers ) keep trying to come up with more differnces or extra jobs for the SP artillery.

Given the scale of our games, in the size of our maps, in the time covered (even with our variable time turns most battles are only a couple of hours), and in the size of our forces (around a battalion with big battles going for regimental size) Having the divisional Artillery show up on the map with any regularity is just not HISTORIC

Even though it is a lot of FUN

Taking away the real capabilities of a unit so we can cram units that don't really belong there on our maps (fun though they are) just seems a little strange.

I am not rying to tell players how to play their games. I just think that they should be given the information and then decide for themselves.

I think that the Encyclopedia entries might be a good way to give information to the playes on scale of issue, rarity, limited to one theater useage or other "problems" with a unit. And/or why a unit maybe put in a class in the game that might seem a little out of the ordinary without the player knowing some of the gamecode issues.

(in reply to 264rifle)

Post #: 29

RE: Detaching from HQ: impossible? - 5/31/2006 6:55:53 PM

Twotribes

Posts: 6929
Joined: 2/15/2002
From: Jacksonville NC
Status: offline

Mortors are indirect fire and except the 120 and larger they dont reach across the map either. But it is unimportant, I dont buy Infantry Guns or Self Propelled versions for indirect fire. Would be nice to have if it didnt effect the direct fire role but I would rather have the direct fire role if indirect would effect that.

(in reply to 264rifle)

Post #: 30

Page: [1] 2 next > >>

All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> Steel Panthers World At War & Mega Campaigns >> SP:WaW Training Center >> Detaching from HQ: impossible?

Page: [1] 2 next > >>