Keeping Wake in Allied Hands

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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> War In The Pacific - Struggle Against Japan 1941 - 1945 >> The War Room >> Keeping Wake in Allied Hands

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Keeping Wake in Allied Hands - 5/30/2006 1:37:16 AM

BrucePowers

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Has anyone done this. Just as in real life in my game against the AI, I drove off the first assault. I severely damaged a transport and the task force left for home. The Lexington patroled to the south while I moved in supply. I now want to try and put in more troops and patrol aircraft.

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RE: Keeping Wake in Allied Hands - 5/30/2006 1:38:49 AM

trojan58

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It may work against the AI it is fatal to try it against a player

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RE: Keeping Wake in Allied Hands - 5/30/2006 1:43:25 AM

Mark VII

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Against the AI, yea.....Against anyone with a pulse, highly unlikely.

You might be able to hold for a couple of months against a human if he is not determined at the beginning, but sooner or later, KB and some BB's will show up protecting a Infantry Division and all your troops will soon be surrendering and since Wake is so far from PH, you will not be able to support it. Now if the IJN has lost its CV's somewhere on favorable terms to you than anything is possible!

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RE: Keeping Wake in Allied Hands - 5/30/2006 1:43:59 AM

BrucePowers

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Maybe that is why we did not do it in real life. It would have been very risky with scant assets.

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RE: Keeping Wake in Allied Hands - 5/30/2006 1:47:48 AM

BrucePowers

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By the way. I took serious damage to 4 battleships at Pearl Harbor with 2 moderate and 2 light. Arizona and Nevada may be ready for service in about 3 weeks. I was thinking of using them as a surface action group for a week or two out of Midawy.

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RE: Keeping Wake in Allied Hands - 5/30/2006 1:53:31 AM

Mark VII

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Danger...Danger... Will Robinson...Make sure you know where the IJN Carriers are and make sure they have a nice 7-9 DD escort. I wouldn't be moving those BB's till you had more of them together or there was a dire threat that you felt that needed to be opposed now!

< Message edited by Mark VII -- 5/30/2006 1:54:11 AM >

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RE: Keeping Wake in Allied Hands - 5/30/2006 3:12:36 AM

BrucePowers

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I had planned on a 6 DD escort. I wanted to get a feel for the AI. Yeah, I know this is expensive bait.

I was only planning on letting this thing go for a few months. Hopefully, by the end of summer, I will be ready game wise and time wise for a human opponent.

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RE: Keeping Wake in Allied Hands - 5/30/2006 4:35:11 AM

ADavidB

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BrucePowers

By the way. I took serious damage to 4 battleships at Pearl Harbor with 2 moderate and 2 light. Arizona and Nevada may be ready for service in about 3 weeks. I was thinking of using them as a surface action group for a week or two out of Midawy.

Don't use your BBs for surface combat before they get their radar upgrades. Otherwise any and every Japanese DD, CL and CA will get off Long Lance torpedoes and your BBs will quickly become dive attractions.

If there are Japanese TFs that are in range of your ships and are not being protected by Bettys and Nells, send your CVs after them instead. Your carrier pilots need the practice anyway.

Also, remember, combat TFs use horrendous amounts of fuel. Don't plan any action with them before you "fill up" your forward bases with fuel. As a corollary - never, never, never send out a combat TF with inadequate fuel - they will slow down like crazy and can be caught refueling. As part of this always use your DDs with the longest possible ranges when sending a TF "in harm's way". Once again, you don't want to be trying to stow fuel hoses when the KB shows up...

Good luck and have fun

Dave Baranyi

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RE: Keeping Wake in Allied Hands - 5/30/2006 4:45:03 AM

BrucePowers

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Logistics rears its ugly head once again. Maybe there is areason in real life why in those early years of the war big ships stayed close to home most of the time. I really do like this game.

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RE: Keeping Wake in Allied Hands - 5/30/2006 3:25:00 PM

ny59giants

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Get in the practice as the Allies of intially fortifying your "East Pacific Wall" - Hawaii, Palmrya, Canton, Pago Pago, and Fiji. I start building forts from 12/7/41 and don't focus on building up bases (ports/airfields) for some time. The only exception is rasing a port to size two to be able to unload supplies/fuel quickly. Against the AI, it will not attack those bases, but when you start playing PBEM's, look out.

I played against the AI for about a year and have to unlearn bad habits before they bite me.

When playing a standard scenario, logistics is relatively easy.
If you want a challenge, play one with a Nik Mod and you soon learn how to prioritize your supply/fuel.

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RE: Keeping Wake in Allied Hands - 5/30/2006 11:09:31 PM

niceguy2005

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I have heard of the AI attacking and taking Palmyra. I don't know how weakly one would have to garrision to trigger an AI attack.

I agree with ny59giants that it is wise to be in the habit of building up those bases first. I rush all available ENG units to those bases and build forts and airfields simulatneoulsy. The allies need to be able to counter Japanese attacks including naval attack with level bombers, so ideally all those bases will have level 4 airfields ASAP.

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RE: Keeping Wake in Allied Hands - 5/31/2006 2:01:25 AM

BrucePowers

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Well, let the fun begin. I learned a lot this weekend from the game and you guys. Going to be a long week at work though even if it is only 4 days long. Nothing bad just a lot to do.

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RE: Keeping Wake in Allied Hands - 5/31/2006 3:44:40 AM

ny59giants

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You may not realize it playing against the AI, but some important units for the Allies are: Eng Rgt - you get only a few of them so be careful where you deploy them (keep a few subs within short range (transport) if you send them in harms way early in the war); DMS - these few ships should be kept for you BB TF's as they are the only 30 plus knot minesweepers ships and will keep you from using your BB/CA as minesweepers

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RE: Keeping Wake in Allied Hands - 5/31/2006 4:08:09 AM

BrucePowers

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Oh, that one is important. I did not realize they were so valuable, seriously. I must be more careful in the future. They are sitting at Midway, I think I will send them home.

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RE: Keeping Wake in Allied Hands - 5/31/2006 10:15:06 AM

jeffs

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While the following will not keep the Japanese from taking Wake or Midway, they are valuable as a nuisance, attritional strategy.

A. Send your DMs and lay a bunch of eggs on the island.
B. Send your PT boats there
C. Put the Nautilaus and Narwhale there as well. That or S boats. (they have the low dud torpedos)

That will not stop an invasion, but it might cause some pain. If you are really gung ho, send a CD unit...
And if you want to be semi-suicidal you can send an RCT unit and EAB unit (to build up the fort). I do not think this is possible (or desirable with Wake)...If you like living really dangerously than Midway...

BUT why?�@
This is almost like the Shenandoah Valley in the US Civil War...For the south, they could threaten an invasion of the north via the valley (and as late as 1864 had an effective raid that got within a few miles of Washington).
However, for the north the valley lead nowhere important. Here Wake might lead to Midway and Midway to Johnson and Johnson is clearly worrisome to PH. However, for the US, Midway is fine (level 6) airfield) but then Wake and Marcus are only level 4....So it is hard to March across the Paciific with that......

SO why lose a bunch of important assets defending these guys? Maybe midway deserves some fight (who wants a zillion bettys at Midway....) but in the scheme of things better to lose Midway than Palmyra or even Canton Island...

_____________________________

To quote from Evans/Peattie`s {Kaigun}
"Mistakes in operations and tactics can be corrected, but
political and strategic mistakes live forever". The authors were refering to Japan but the same could be said of the US misadventure in Iraq

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RE: Keeping Wake in Allied Hands - 6/1/2006 12:30:31 AM

John 3rd

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I like defending Wake early in the game. If the Japanese player doesn't grab it quickly, why not punish him some by moving 1 or 2 CD units there to add to the Marine's well-known reception committee?!! Additionally, if you add another BF there, you can put in that SBD and F4F squardon from PH there. Two fighter squadrons, some PBYs, and 1 Squadron of Dauntlesses would make any Japanese player leery! Mine the heck out of it with your useless SS and any Japanese invasion will need at least a brigade of not division to take it...

If you lose these forces, what are you truly out? You'll have plenty of reinforcements as December gives way to January and February.

My .02!

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RE: Keeping Wake in Allied Hands - 6/1/2006 4:22:07 AM

rockmedic109

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36 Wildcats and 16 SBDs might cause grief or even deter the forces sent IRL, I doubt it would do much more than run up the score of Zero pilots if Japan supported the attack with even half of KB. It would work against the AI, I think.

Realistically, what is the strategic value of Wake. When the allies get strong enough to go after the Marianas, I don't think a bunch of Bettys at Wake will stop them. Those planes would be better in the Marianas where they could have other bases to go to when the allies close down one of their airfields.

It could be used {by either side} as an advance sub base, but it is too close to either side. Sub refueling base? Nice, but not essential.

Seaplane base? Again, nice to have but not worth too much expense.

I think Canton/Palmyra/Suva are far more critical.

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RE: Keeping Wake in Allied Hands - 6/1/2006 4:56:00 AM

ADavidB

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quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

I like defending Wake early in the game. If the Japanese player doesn't grab it quickly, why not punish him some by moving 1 or 2 CD units there to add to the Marine's well-known reception committee?!! Additionally, if you add another BF there, you can put in that SBD and F4F squardon from PH there. Two fighter squadrons, some PBYs, and 1 Squadron of Dauntlesses would make any Japanese player leery! Mine the heck out of it with your useless SS and any Japanese invasion will need at least a brigade of not division to take it...

If you lose these forces, what are you truly out? You'll have plenty of reinforcements as December gives way to January and February.

My .02!

Given the opportunity, I'd pull out everything from Wake and put the troops and planes into the Hawaiian Islands in a rush! My big concern early in the game is a Japanese player attacking the Hawaiian Islands, not some outer base that has no strategic value and can't be defended. US CDs and base forces are too rare and way too valuable to waste if one can avoid it.

Dave Baranyi

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RE: Keeping Wake in Allied Hands - 6/1/2006 5:00:51 AM

BrucePowers

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I was am just doing it as an intellectual exercise to work on being able to use the game system. At the same time I am trying to evacuate Malaya to move merchant ships and men under fire. (I am failing miserably mainly because I am not paying attention to detail. I am learning.)

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RE: Keeping Wake in Allied Hands - 6/1/2006 7:54:07 AM

bradfordkay

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Against the AI I like to hold Wake if the first assault fails. I usually rush the Enterprise and Lexington to the area to nail the second wave. In order to do so, I have to pay a lot of attention to the KB - as it can easily nail those two TFs if it comes a callin'.

In my present game I have the original BF and Marine CD unit reinforced with an RCT, another artillery regiment and another small base force. I've kept the original F4F detachment there, added an SBD squadron and a PBY squadron. I keep a screen of subs between Wake and the Japanese possessions, and have so far been able to rush a couple of carriers out of Pearl whenever I get a scent of anything coming Wake's way. I've sent back the survivors of two follow up invasions so far (July, '42).

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fair winds,
Brad

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RE: Keeping Wake in Allied Hands - 6/1/2006 9:42:27 AM

jeffs

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On an important level, one must differentiate between PBEM and AI...And against AI one can get away with a great deal...So the questions is against a competent player, what makes sense?

I think mines are great. Subs fine......If you do not mind losing PTs those are fine....

Nothing else seems worth the cost......At least I can see wanting to hold Midway to a certain extent....

But remember, if Japan wants in the begining it usually gets...And defended wake is probably more of a death trap than anything else...

That said, I rarely like try to escape as forcing Japan to take time has value as well. And given how isolated Wake is, how many IJN opponents are going to give you the time to get stuff from Wake...Expecially if the KB retires that way (I think it would be suicidal to send out transport ships to Wake the first few turns...Better go down with guns blazing than to lose a bunch of loaded transports. Massive worst case - he gets Wake in a walk and you lose the units anyway.....

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RE: Keeping Wake in Allied Hands - 6/8/2006 7:18:20 AM

Bosun

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you are right. In all my games Wake has quickly fallen no matter what...

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RE: Keeping Wake in Allied Hands - 6/8/2006 2:35:14 PM

saj42

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I decided to take Wake back in a trial game against the AI in May/June 42.
Because the AI is rather dumb, it sent its forces in piecemeal. The invasion and replenishment TFs came first, so I sank those with my air-cbt and surface-cbt TFs, but waited too long then got creamed 4 days later by the KB. An attritional battle followed that cost me 2 CVs 3 BBs 5 CAs etc.
It's a fun way to practice - just make sure you learn the lessons well

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RE: Keeping Wake in Allied Hands - 6/9/2006 12:01:02 AM

BrucePowers

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Well do to other errors of my own making, I took my game against the AI back to 12/11 from 12/18. I want to see if I can sucker another small amphibious op back to Wake with 2 carriers waiting in ambush. I am being good, I don't peek at what the AI is doing.

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Post #: 24

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