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Thank You for TOAW 3

 
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Thank You for TOAW 3 - 6/8/2006 7:16:02 PM   
Hexed Gamer


Posts: 561
Joined: 6/24/2004
Status: offline 		Some are calling it a patch, some not.

Some are complaining of the price, but, I am here to say, some not.

TOAW for me, started off as getting the Elite Edition Volume 1.
I was blown away back then. Wow, every friging board game I own, inside a single computer game, nice trick.

I ended up with Elite Edition Volume 2 not long after.
Then WinXP essentially told me to get stuffed (where my TOAW Volume 1 was concerned). Volume 2 played, but I was a WW2 gamer basically.

I bought TOAW CoW and it cost me a pretty penny, but, hey, it liked XP so what the heck. I wasn't resentful of the price then either. Wasn't easy finding 80 bucks (Canadian) for it, but I have yet to experience 80 spare bucks just falling out of my wallet in over a decade eh.

Shortly after I obtained TOAW CoW it became increasingly apparent, that the only "official" source, couldn't care a damn if the game sold at all. Finding it on their site Take2, required a lot of luck, and usually required someone else point it out actually. To say Take2 ever gave a damn, just doesn't cut it with me. I am wondering why they even had it at all.

As far as I was concerned, pre Matrix Games announcement, the game was dead in the water, and not genuinely on sale. And while there is not such thing as "abandonware", prior to Matrix Games saving it from oblivion, it wouldn't have bothered me one iota to just give away copies to any late comer.

I was very happy Matrix Games wanted to defacto rescue this game.
I have always seen TOAW as one of computer wargamings greatest achivements. It does a great job of giving a wargamer without the space, or option, to play so many of the classic board games of the past, an outlet. There are lots of fine computer wargames out there of course. But TOAW so aced so many aspects of a great product.

I think 40 bucks is a fair price. I think it's NOT a patch. It's a full game after all.I think it is great news for any who would like to be able to simulate a grognards entire board game collection too.
if you missed out on any of the past releases, you are in luck.

I can't think of much in the way of computer wargames I would actually buy more than once. TOAW3 is indeed a very rare example.

I'm impressed Matrix Games didn't just release the CoW version, which would have been sufficient to put it on the market again.
They didn't take the easy route, and that's worth my thanks.

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Post #: 1
RE: Thank You for TOAW 3 - 6/8/2006 7:22:37 PM   
blastpop


Posts: 395
Joined: 11/27/2005
From: Connecticut
Status: offline 		Someone gave me a copy of the original TOAW. I could never get it running on my machine. Much to my delight Matrix planned to publish it.

Downloaded it a couple of days ago and am very happy not only with the program, but the choice of the plethora of scenarios. Enough to keep someone busy for quite some time.

Maybe the best $40 spent on a game by me, ever...

(in reply to Hexed Gamer)
Post #: 2
RE: Thank You for TOAW 3 - 6/8/2006 11:04:18 PM   
HomeFries


Posts: 88
Joined: 7/4/2004
Status: offline 		I picked up the original TOAW, then BP1, then TOAW2, followed by FPK.  The only one I didn't pick up was CoW because I figured I had everything I needed.

Now that TOAW3 is out, I'm no longer left with 4 CDs, XP, and nothing to show for it. 

Thanks Matrix!


_____________________________

“Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty.”
― Robert A. Heinlein

(in reply to blastpop)
Post #: 3
RE: Thank You for TOAW 3 - 6/8/2006 11:28:14 PM   
Banquet

 

Posts: 1184
Joined: 8/23/2002
From: England
Status: offline 		It's certainly worth the money for me because I never had the originals.  The sheer amount of scenario's here make it excellent value for money imo.  How many other games can you switch between battles in Malta - Burma - France - and then from WWII to WWI and NATO battles?  This will be on my HD as long as I have a HD! 

So far I've really just dived in, with occasional reference to the manual..  I think I'm getting a rough idea what's going on.  Only 2 vague criticisms would be, as another poster has mentioned elsewhere - a further level of zoom would be nice.  Also (and I maybe missing something) I wish the battles could be singled out individually.  I see loads of units moving very fast - some flashing icons and then get a battle report - but it all happens a bit fast.  For some important battles it would be nice to see the losses as they happened. 

Really enjoying it so far tho.  My thanks to the devs

(in reply to HomeFries)
Post #: 4
RE: Thank You for TOAW 3 - 6/9/2006 12:31:33 AM   
Terminus


Posts: 41459
Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Denmark
Status: offline 		I say thank you as well. CoW never made it to Denmark, so I've "had to make do" with TOAW I & II. Neither ever worked properly with XP, so I'm glad to have a version that does.

_____________________________

We are all dreams of the Giant Space Butterfly.

(in reply to Banquet)
Post #: 5
RE: Thank You for TOAW 3 - 6/9/2006 1:54:21 AM   
Hertston


Posts: 3564
Joined: 8/17/2002
From: Cornwall, UK
Status: offline 		I'm very impressed with it, an excellent engine, excellent AI (at least as far as I can judge so far), and huge coverage and flexibility - this will be sitting on the HD for years.

As to price, it seems fair enough to me. I had the original Talonsoft releases (although I haven't played them in years), and CoW passed me by, but there certainly seems be reason enough for CoW players to buy it. Most purchasers will not have played any incarnation of the game before, and its very hard to think of a wargame (free ones excepted ) that could offer similar value for money.

My only real gripe so far is that nothing much was done with the UI which sucketh badly in 1999, and looks even worse now. To compensate for that a little, the new terrain tiles are nice and the counter-graphics are miniature works of art; the best ever IMHO. I would have added a comment on how absolutely ghastly the intro music is, but mercifully I found out very quickly how to turn it off!


< Message edited by Hertston -- 6/9/2006 2:05:51 AM >

(in reply to Terminus)
Post #: 6
RE: Thank You for TOAW 3 - 6/9/2006 1:56:30 AM   
Terminus


Posts: 41459
Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Denmark
Status: offline 		Oh yeah! Music, sound effects and intro movie got the proverbial bullet in the back of the head very quickly on my box as well. The only wargame I play with the sound effects turned on is Steel Panthers.

_____________________________

We are all dreams of the Giant Space Butterfly.

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Post #: 7
RE: Thank You for TOAW 3 - 6/9/2006 2:01:41 AM   
Bossy573


Posts: 363
Joined: 3/25/2005
From: Buffalo, NY
Status: offline 		Just happy to have this game fully functional with some nice tweaks and back in my gaming library. Where else can you get this much "game" in one package?

Very anxious to see what Matrix does with the title moving forward as well.


< Message edited by Bossy573 -- 6/9/2006 2:02:53 AM >

_____________________________


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Post #: 8
RE: Thank You for TOAW 3 - 6/9/2006 2:29:20 AM   
Tanaka


Posts: 4378
Joined: 4/8/2003
From: USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bossy573

Just happy to have this game fully functional with some nice tweaks and back in my gaming library. Where else can you get this much "game" in one package?

Very anxious to see what Matrix does with the title moving forward as well.



Ditto its the ultimate complete package fully polished and Im very happy with my purchase! Looking forward to future Matrix improvements/tweaks/support on this great title!

_____________________________


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Post #: 9
RE: Thank You for TOAW 3 - 6/9/2006 2:57:20 AM   
golden delicious


Posts: 5575
Joined: 9/5/2000
From: London, Surrey, United Kingdom
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Hexed Gamer

I have always seen TOAW as one of computer wargamings greatest achivements.


Yeah. It makes huge strides in recognising how computers can reinvent wargaming, rather than just trying to ape the way boardgames work. It was also revolutionarily free form- hence the appearance of hundreds of user made scenarios. Finally, if you plug in the real data, you get realistic results. The manual's introduction talks about simulation- not just gaming.

Really, a tremendous service to wargaming to bring this game back into the present and get new people buying it and playing it.

_____________________________

"What did you read at university?"
"War Studies"
"War? Huh. What is it good for?"
"Absolutely nothing."

(in reply to Hexed Gamer)
Post #: 10
RE: Thank You for TOAW 3 - 6/9/2006 3:11:13 AM   
Terminus


Posts: 41459
Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Denmark
Status: offline 		One of the interface changes I'm very happy with is the splitting up of scenarios in multiple folders. With so many available, the thought of scrolling up and down through a mile-long list isn't a pleasant one, and happily I don't have to. Nice!

_____________________________

We are all dreams of the Giant Space Butterfly.

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Post #: 11
RE: Thank You for TOAW 3 - 6/9/2006 3:28:09 AM   
ralphtricky


Posts: 6685
Joined: 7/27/2003
From: Colorado Springs
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

Oh yeah! Music, sound effects and intro movie got the proverbial bullet in the back of the head very quickly on my box as well. The only wargame I play with the sound effects turned on is Steel Panthers.

WHAT! Do you realize how much time I spent getting the game to look at the year the scenario was playing in and select the appropriate music....blasphemers.

Ralph

(in reply to Terminus)
Post #: 12
RE: Thank You for TOAW 3 - 6/9/2006 4:06:04 AM   
golden delicious


Posts: 5575
Joined: 9/5/2000
From: London, Surrey, United Kingdom
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

Oh yeah! Music, sound effects and intro movie got the proverbial bullet in the back of the head very quickly on my box as well. The only wargame I play with the sound effects turned on is Steel Panthers.


Philistine. Though I admit I did replace a lot of the ropier music from COW with the good stuff from Volume I.

_____________________________

"What did you read at university?"
"War Studies"
"War? Huh. What is it good for?"
"Absolutely nothing."

(in reply to Terminus)
Post #: 13
RE: Thank You for TOAW 3 - 6/9/2006 5:45:56 PM   
dennisb55

 

Posts: 29
Joined: 6/6/2006
Status: offline 		Ditto, good job.

(in reply to golden delicious)
Post #: 14
RE: Thank You for TOAW 3 - 6/9/2006 5:49:54 PM   
Terminus


Posts: 41459
Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Denmark
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: golden delicious


quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

Oh yeah! Music, sound effects and intro movie got the proverbial bullet in the back of the head very quickly on my box as well. The only wargame I play with the sound effects turned on is Steel Panthers.


Philistine. Though I admit I did replace a lot of the ropier music from COW with the good stuff from Volume I.


As I said, no wargame that I play (aside from SP:WaW) is ever played with music and sound on. It's just wrong...

_____________________________

We are all dreams of the Giant Space Butterfly.

(in reply to golden delicious)
Post #: 15
RE: Thank You for TOAW 3 - 6/9/2006 5:54:12 PM   
liuzg150181


Posts: 68
Joined: 6/6/2006
Status: offline 		Kudos for bringing back the glory of Operational wargaming~~~

(in reply to Terminus)
Post #: 16
RE: Thank You for TOAW 3 - 6/9/2006 6:07:07 PM   
ralphtricky


Posts: 6685
Joined: 7/27/2003
From: Colorado Springs
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus


quote:

ORIGINAL: golden delicious


quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

Oh yeah! Music, sound effects and intro movie got the proverbial bullet in the back of the head very quickly on my box as well. The only wargame I play with the sound effects turned on is Steel Panthers.


Philistine. Though I admit I did replace a lot of the ropier music from COW with the good stuff from Volume I.


As I said, no wargame that I play (aside from SP:WaW) is ever played with music and sound on. It's just wrong...

Fine....

It's relatively easy to change to the SPWAW sounds/music if you want to. Music anyway, it looks like SPWAW has a lot more sounds that TOAW.

I can detail the process if you're interested.

Ralph

(in reply to Terminus)
Post #: 17
RE: Thank You for TOAW 3 - 6/9/2006 6:09:29 PM   
Terminus


Posts: 41459
Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Denmark
Status: offline 		Nah, thanks anyway, though... I prefer to listen to my stereo or media player when I game...

_____________________________

We are all dreams of the Giant Space Butterfly.

(in reply to ralphtricky)
Post #: 18
RE: Thank You for TOAW 3 - 6/9/2006 7:32:46 PM   
GreenDestiny


Posts: 177
Joined: 1/4/2005
From: Alamogordo NM
Status: offline 		I don’t see anything wrong with the intro movie, music & sound effects. Except that there’s not enough music, it seems that the same tunes keep on playing over every hour or so. I think Matrix should add some Japanese tunes for fighting in the Pacific and some German marching songs for the fighting in Europe… Maybe the Doors for Vietnam…haha… … you know stuff like that. And you can probably get the WW2 stuff from the Talonsoft campaign series.

But then again… my hearing is really bad so I should probably be the last one talking about this.

Anyways… I’ll also just want to say thanks for releasing this gem of a game. The AI is one of the best that I had ever played against.  

(in reply to Terminus)
Post #: 19
RE: Thank You for TOAW 3 - 6/10/2006 4:38:30 PM   
r6kunz


Posts: 1103
Joined: 7/4/2002
From: near Philadelphia
Status: offline 		Nice work in a short amount of time.  The AI really does seem to have been beefed up!
Rob Kunz (Road to Moscow series for TOAW)


(in reply to GreenDestiny)
Post #: 20
RE: Thank You for TOAW 3 - 6/10/2006 8:11:32 PM   
ralphtricky


Posts: 6685
Joined: 7/27/2003
From: Colorado Springs
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: HPT KUNZ
Nice work in a short amount of time. The AI really does seem to have been beefed up!
Rob Kunz (Road to Moscow series for TOAW)

Thanks! I'm hoping to improve it more down the road.

(in reply to r6kunz)
Post #: 21
RE: Thank You for TOAW 3 - 6/10/2006 8:21:17 PM   
ioticus

 

Posts: 187
Joined: 6/13/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ralphtrick

quote:

ORIGINAL: HPT KUNZ
Nice work in a short amount of time. The AI really does seem to have been beefed up!
Rob Kunz (Road to Moscow series for TOAW)

Thanks! I'm hoping to improve it more down the road.



Great to hear. I hope you can improve the defensive AI.

(in reply to ralphtricky)
Post #: 22
RE: Thank You for TOAW 3 - 6/10/2006 9:45:23 PM   
ralphtricky


Posts: 6685
Joined: 7/27/2003
From: Colorado Springs
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ioticus

quote:

ORIGINAL: ralphtrick

quote:

ORIGINAL: HPT KUNZ
Nice work in a short amount of time. The AI really does seem to have been beefed up!
Rob Kunz (Road to Moscow series for TOAW)

Thanks! I'm hoping to improve it more down the road.



Great to hear. I hope you can improve the defensive AI.

That's going to be tougher. Norm Koger actually has a bunch of code written for reaction location and is good reserve foramtion, and similar things, but I haven't had a chance to evaluate the code yet, or figure out how to use it.

(in reply to ioticus)
Post #: 23
RE: Thank You for TOAW 3 - 6/11/2006 12:24:34 AM   
ioticus

 

Posts: 187
Joined: 6/13/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ralphtrick

quote:

ORIGINAL: ioticus

quote:

ORIGINAL: ralphtrick

quote:

ORIGINAL: HPT KUNZ
Nice work in a short amount of time. The AI really does seem to have been beefed up!
Rob Kunz (Road to Moscow series for TOAW)

Thanks! I'm hoping to improve it more down the road.





Great to hear. I hope you can improve the defensive AI.

That's going to be tougher. Norm Koger actually has a bunch of code written for reaction location and is good reserve foramtion, and similar things, but I haven't had a chance to evaluate the code yet, or figure out how to use it.



Well, I have faith you can make it better

(in reply to ralphtricky)
Post #: 24
RE: Thank You for TOAW 3 - 6/11/2006 12:57:53 AM   
golden delicious


Posts: 5575
Joined: 9/5/2000
From: London, Surrey, United Kingdom
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: GreenDestiny

I don’t see anything wrong with the intro movie, music & sound effects. Except that there’s not enough music, it seems that the same tunes keep on playing over every hour or so. I think Matrix should add some Japanese tunes for fighting in the Pacific and some German marching songs for the fighting in Europe…


Should be fairly straightforward. Matrix must have quite a pile of suitable music from its other games which it can import.

_____________________________

"What did you read at university?"
"War Studies"
"War? Huh. What is it good for?"
"Absolutely nothing."

(in reply to GreenDestiny)
Post #: 25
RE: Thank You for TOAW 3 - 6/14/2006 7:13:52 AM   
FlipTrac_511


Posts: 324
Joined: 5/24/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mad Gonzo

I picked up the original TOAW, then BP1, then TOAW2, followed by FPK.  The only one I didn't pick up was CoW because I figured I had everything I needed.

Now that TOAW3 is out, I'm no longer left with 4 CDs, XP, and nothing to show for it. 

Thanks Matrix!



Amen. Same boat here except I was able to find ACOW not too long ago. I may be short $40 in the near future thanks to TOAW3.

(in reply to HomeFries)
Post #: 26
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