Slitherine

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ORIGINAL: azraelck

Seems to me, for both Romania and Poland as well (I have a book, written by the 4th Panzer Army's Chief Staff Officer, that notes the courage and determination of the poles, and the intellectual lack of their commanders. In it, he even mentions Polish Calvary assaulting tanks with drawn sabers) is to have good morale for the troops but poor leaders' morale and experience.

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ORIGINAL: Tropsbor

Also I don't see any reason for you to compare the Finnish and Romanian armies. The conditions in which they fought were quite different. For example major operations ceased in the north between late 1941 and mid 1944. This in turn allowed the Finns to be in a much better shape in time for the Soviet offensive. On the other side the Romanian armies at Stalingrad had been fighting for 2 years without break and it was very hard to supply reinforcements over a 2,000 km distance. The Finns benefited from much shorter supply routes. Also the fights in the north didn't reach the same intensity as in the south. And you think the Romanian armies at Stalingrad were not overwhelmed? 3rd Rom. Army, 4th Rom. Army versus 1st Guard Army, 5th Tank Army, 21st Army, 51st Army, 62nd Army, 63rd Army and 57th Army totalling over 1,000,000 men, 1,300 tanks, 11,000 artillery pieces and over 800 airplanes. And bear in mind that the Romanian armies had to cover over 438 kilometers of frontline, hence the low density of the heavy AT guns (in average one heavy AT gun per every 4.23 kilometer)! The 8th Cavalry division found itself covering 100 km of the front...

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ORIGINAL: Korpraali V
(In Isthmus of Karelia - Soviet main offensive - Soviets had 300-400 artillery pieces per frontline kilometer, in Stalingrad they had 200 pieces. The barrage was hardest so far in military history, and still the first assaults were stopped with thin line of defence - three Divisions and one Brigade. The break happened next day when three Guards Divisions attacked against one Regiment.)

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ORIGINAL: serg3d

Actually, I think it's a very good luck for Europe and Russia that Finland is a small country and does not seem have too much interest in expanding it's borders. Though Nokia and Linux make me doubt if Finns really abandoned the idea of world domination.

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ORIGINAL: Orzel Bialy




Except that "charge" never happened against tanks in reality.

What that was is just a re-telling of a myth that was started by the Germans to invoke the idea of Polish officers being ingorant...and given some measure of validity by some Poles who surprisingly embraced the story (regardless of it's being made up) as a symbol of their bravery against overwhelming odds.

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ORIGINAL: azraelck

quote:

ORIGINAL: Orzel Bialy




Except that "charge" never happened against tanks in reality.

What that was is just a re-telling of a myth that was started by the Germans to invoke the idea of Polish officers being ingorant...and given some measure of validity by some Poles who surprisingly embraced the story (regardless of it's being made up) as a symbol of their bravery against overwhelming odds.

It's kinda odd that multiple sources, including those by american writers as well as german accounts; would have the exact same event mentioned. Every book I have read that has something on the invasion of Poland in 1939 has mentioned a calvary charge against tanks. In addition, I believe I've even found some stuff on the internet the also mentions the Polish charge as well.

quote:

ORIGINAL: azraelck
Thanks, it still seems odd that the Germans would have extolled a fake charge against tanks in their propoganda; to me that would just indicate an inordinate amount of courage and tenacity in the ranks of the Polish Lancers. Regardless, use of such an outdated tactic, with equally outdated weaponry, in the face of a modern army required just as much courage to undertake.

quote:

ORIGINAL: azraelck

Seems to me, for both Romania and Poland as well (I have a book, written by the 4th Panzer Army's Chief Staff Officer, ....... In it, he even mentions Polish Calvary assaulting tanks with drawn sabers)

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Was this claimed to have occured on September 3rd, north of Schwetz and west of Graudenz; an attack by the Pomorska Cavalry Brigade?

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(In Isthmus of Karelia - Soviet main offensive - Soviets had 300-400 artillery pieces per frontline kilometer, in Stalingrad they had 200 pieces. The barrage was hardest so far in military history, and still the first assaults were stopped with thin line of defence - three Divisions and one Brigade. The break happened next day when three Guards Divisions attacked against one Regiment.)

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ORIGINAL: Whitmire

quote:

(In Isthmus of Karelia - Soviet main offensive - Soviets had 300-400 artillery pieces per frontline kilometer, in Stalingrad they had 200 pieces. The barrage was hardest so far in military history, and still the first assaults were stopped with thin line of defence - three Divisions and one Brigade. The break happened next day when three Guards Divisions attacked against one Regiment.)

When the battle of Tali-Ihantala started, the Soviets had 10 pieces of artillery per 100 meters of the Karelian Isthmus. That's one piece per 10 meters! Finnish artillery was outmatched 20:1, and the Soviets had total air superiority with 400 bombers and 600 fighters. But still the Finns won a decisive victory, and it's said that the battle was won with artillery (yeah, the artillery that was outmatched 20:1)... That's just unbelievable.

If you know anything about the battles on the Isthmus, you can hardly say that there was no concentration of fighting on the Northern Front! As to the length of the frontline to be held, the Finns had over a thousand kilometers, three or four times the 438 kilometers... Don't forget that Finland is bigger than modern Germany, yet has a population of only 5,000,000 people. So it was quite a stretch for such a small army.