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Help with fflying - 5/20/2006 12:27:26 AM   
philturco

 

Posts: 308
Joined: 11/14/2005
Status: offline 		Help

Having trouble learning to handle planes by following tutorial. Is this to be expected or is there other help available?
Post #: 1
RE: Help with fflying - 5/20/2006 3:46:37 PM   
Hard Sarge


Posts: 22741
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From: garfield hts ohio usa
Status: offline 		Hi Bibbo

would need more info

what are you trying to fly, what settings are you using, what are you haveing trouble with ?

if your new to Flightsimming, you may need to dumb down the game some until you get a better feel for it

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RE: Help with fflying - 5/20/2006 5:50:05 PM   
philturco

 

Posts: 308
Joined: 11/14/2005
Status: offline 		Playing IL2 Ace expansion pack. Starting with Messerschmidt single mission. Using normal settings. Not able to pull out of spin that occurs shortly after takeoff. Using rudder controls and jojstick to attempt to maintain level flight and joystick to gain altitude. Suspect I'm overcorrecting once spin begins but not sure if there is any thing else I should work on. Watched autopilot fly this mission and have another question about how you know where you are supposed to fly to contact enemy. I was not prompted for any heading but told to follow a lead plane. I heard the lead plane take off and saw its propellar wash but never got a visual on the plane. Very excited to learn to play this sim as I suspect I'm going to be spending a lot of time on it once I get the fundamentals down. Thanks much and sorry for the length of the post.

Bibbo

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Post #: 3
RE: Help with fflying - 5/20/2006 6:24:16 PM   
Hard Sarge


Posts: 22741
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From: garfield hts ohio usa
Status: offline 		don't worry about length, you got questions, you need to ask them and explain what is going on :)

if your going into a spin, I would say you are pulling your nose up too soon or for too long, you may have to build up more speed or cut the climb rate down a little bit

you should be able to see/feel the stall beginning to start, that is a good time to start backing off (when you start getting into turn fights, you will learn to tell how close to the edge you are)

if you got enough alt, you need to get your nose down, and start to build up speed and air flowing over your control surfaces, use rudder in the counter direction of the spin, but be gentle, as you can just get the plane to go into a counter spin

which 109 are you flying ? the F is a good plane to use, it handles well and about the best turner

remember, you can always go to setting and lower them or raise them, until you are confortable with them

you may not want to have complex engine control on, you will tend to overheat alot

until you get more feel for breaking out of the spin, you may want to turn off spins and stalls, until you a better feel for it

you also may want to turn off take off, and begin the mission in the air, this way you will be with the flight leader when the mission starts

if you have the map turned on (M key) you can see the flight path and any planes that are close with in the size of the map

you can always play with some of the outside views to try and find the other planes in the area ?

also, until you get a hang of things, you may want to turn the cockpit off, so you see the full screen, it can be very HARD to see anything with in the cockpit



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RE: Help with fflying - 5/21/2006 12:56:08 AM   
philturco

 

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Thanks for the advice about stalling. Am following your suggestions about gentle rudder corrections and balance between gaining altitude and maintaining sufficient air speed. I have noticed its helping.

Bibbo

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Post #: 5
RE: Help with fflying - 5/21/2006 1:13:39 AM   
Hard Sarge


Posts: 22741
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From: garfield hts ohio usa
Status: offline 		Good

are you used to useing meters for distances and speed ?, if not, it would really help to set the game to feet

you can change this in the keys

until you get the feel and it becomes 2nd nature, knowing your speed is very importent

and how much speed you are going to need to do what you want or need to do

the old stand by is Alt is Speed, in a pinch, you can always lose Alt to gain Speed, also, when ever you really get a chance, regain your Alt, unless there is a reason to be at the Alt you are at

(a bad thing, remember that the AI leader does not always fly at the best Alt or course for the mission at hand, the AI will at times, fly at 500 meters all the way to the target and back, while the bad guys are at 3000, as a GE pilot, this is very deadly, for you)

you getting into any gunnery yet ? IL-2 can really mess with a person when it comes to firing on a target :)

but the old advice holds true, when you think you are close enough, get closer, find out what distance you like to fire from, get used to it, and change your gun range to this, and then make sure you are at least at that range before opening fire

a converion rate of 100 yards is great, but you got to only fire from 100 yards and in, 300 yards is a good starting point and work from there

for me, I normally go around 180 to 220, but I am a knive fighter, and I like to get close, when I do fire, I expect to have a kill, but I have been at it for a long time :)

read some of the posts here and get some ideas, and fly alot of practice missions, or design your own

in quick missions, set up some anti bomber runs, turn the ammo off on the bombers and work on your angle and aim, once you get a feel for it, then go back and give the bombers back there ammo, and see if you do as well

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RE: Help with fflying - 5/21/2006 11:12:12 PM   
philturco

 

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Able to lift off and getting 5-600 meters altitude maintaing airspeed around 250-300k/hr. Having trouble maintaing level flight. Slowly seem to go into a bank and cant correct. Question, I'm trying to correct mostly with joystick to roll plane in opposite direction to artificial horizon bar. That is if horizon bar is \ , I nudge joystick left. Also noting bumpy ride shortly before fatal bank. ? too slow airspeed.

Thanks

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Post #: 7
RE: Help with fflying - 5/22/2006 12:23:06 AM   
Hard Sarge


Posts: 22741
Joined: 10/1/2000
From: garfield hts ohio usa
Status: offline 		check this site out and make sure your stick is working the way you want

sometimes the standard settings are not the best settings

alot of people complain that they can fly fine, but then when they get close enough to fire, they can't control the plane well enough to hit the target

try some of these settings

I have had to reset my stick a couple of times

http://www.airwarfare.com/tech/sticks.htm

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RE: Help with fflying - 5/23/2006 11:46:16 PM   
HomeFries


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Joined: 7/4/2004
Status: offline 		Other things that might make a difference if you have full flight difficulty settings enabled.

1) P-factor, which is especially prevalent at takeoff and at slow speeds. If you ramp up the throttle, that might be what is helping to roll your plane without your input. Some right rudder compensates for this, especially at takeoff.

2) Spins are essentially aggravated stalls with yaw input. The way to recover from a spin is to cut back throttle to idle, center the stick or place it slightly forward, and apply opposite rudder. The way to determine opposite rudder is to look at the slip indicator (the ball that is usually below the attitude indicator) and "step on the ball", or use the rudder pedal that corresponds with the direction of that ball. Once you arrest the spin, get airspeed, THEN slowly throttle up. If you throttle up before you get your airspeed back, you will go back into a spin.

Since you are running the Aces pack (2.xx patch series), the flight model is pretty finicky into getting into spins after pulling the stick into your lap. I highly recommend picking up Pacific Fighters, as you can then patch your install to 4.04m, and the 4 series patch incorporates a totally new and improved flight model.

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Post #: 9
RE: Help with fflying - 5/24/2006 12:47:41 AM   
Hard Sarge


Posts: 22741
Joined: 10/1/2000
From: garfield hts ohio usa
Status: offline 		one hassle though is it sounds like he is stalling out right after lift off, or shortly afterward, so he may not have enough Alt to do any counter Spins

I wonder if he is overtrimming when he is trying to level out, start the stall ?

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RE: Help with fflying - 5/28/2006 3:50:47 AM   
philturco

 

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Couple of questions. Having trouble finding target. I have been using the tab button to contact ground control for help. I get a message to vector at some particular degree. I change my heading thats recorded to correspond to the given vector. Is this OK? Once I have changed to the new heading and recontact ground control to confirm they direct me to a new vector. Is this normal as it happens quite a lot and it seems that all I'm doing is continually changing direction. It makes sense if I'm chasing a moving object such as a plane but want to be sure its normal. Dont understand how to use the mission builder as tutorial mentions a map that I can place objects on,choose airfieds,etc. Only map I see is simple pull down menue to choose Moscow, Crimea,etc. No actual map is present for single mission builder. Not able to open the other mission builder( its name escapes me but its the more complex one). Just see empty blue screen when Itoggle switch to open.

Thanks

Bibbo

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Post #: 11
RE: Help with fflying - 5/28/2006 4:39:39 AM   
Hard Sarge


Posts: 22741
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From: garfield hts ohio usa
Status: offline 		it sounds like your doing it right, the vectors should get you close, I think what is happening, is you are close to the target, you get a vector and you are already there, as you fly along and ask for another vector, you have past the target, and get a new one

Ground targets can be very HARD to find, unless you are very low and right on top of them

there is a key you can set to lock your view to the closest ground target, one will put little brackets around the target, the other will change your view to the target

most times it is better to click on and click off, use it to find the target, not to lock onto it, as you lose your line of flight as you look at the target

quick mission, you only get a simple map, set it for Armor under target, and then fly around and see what it takes to spot all of them, on these maps, they will normally be on the road and in columns, so they are easier to pick up

on the full mission builder, you need to open a map first, open and look for a map that is already made, and then you can go in and touch it up, save it as a new name and then fly it

the full mission builder is really impressive, and tons of things to do, it is not easy



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RE: Help with fflying - 5/31/2006 4:10:05 AM   
philturco

 

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Joined: 11/14/2005
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Getting better at flying. Playing pilot career as german fighter with Army Group Center and have noticed that I'm given vector that takes me away from my accompanying fighters and when Iswicth to autopilot it ignors this divergent vector command and follows the group. Also when get close to bandits I always lose sense of where they are as I attempt to manouvre to close. I cant keep a visual on them as I climb or turn.

Thanks

Bibbo

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Post #: 13
RE: Help with fflying - 5/31/2006 2:41:23 PM   
Hard Sarge


Posts: 22741
Joined: 10/1/2000
From: garfield hts ohio usa
Status: offline 		ahhh, now you getting into some of the fun stuff

in sims, it is called SA (if I could spell it I wouldn't use letters :), Awareness)

but basicly, know what is going on, around you, at all times

as you fly more, you should get better at this

and to be honest, I do not know how many times, I have been tracking this guy, to break and go for that guy, only to see someone right under or over top of me, that I do engage

also, to be honest, I believe the planes and targets, are really too small in this sim, you can "see" planes a lot better in real life then we can in the game (but again, that was a sign of the Experten, he could see and know what was going on, miles away, while the new guy, never seen a thing)



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RE: Help with fflying - 6/7/2006 2:47:08 AM   
philturco

 

Posts: 308
Joined: 11/14/2005
Status: offline 		Sarge

Getting better with take off and flying but a real challange with combat to achieve firing position and hold steady while firing. Also hard to stay on grass airfield on take off using keyboard rudder control. Have seen suggestion to get foot pedals to better use rudder control. What do you think and any suggestions as to where they are sold. Also heard that rudders are important for maintaining aim in combat. Thanks as always for your help.

Bibbo

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Post #: 15
RE: Help with fflying - 6/7/2006 3:34:17 PM   
Hard Sarge


Posts: 22741
Joined: 10/1/2000
From: garfield hts ohio usa
Status: offline 		do you have a stick with rudder control on it ?

to be honest, unless you are getting HARD Core about it, I would go with a twist stick before I went for the petals

I used to have a set, and they did not work the way I thought they would, and in the end, most times, I would be using the wrong rudder push, for what I wanted to be doing

which, yes, the rudder will help in your aiming (but remember, the faster you are going. the less effect your rudder will have)

and if you are like me, the rudder petals will hurt you more then help, as you will have to THINK about what you are doing or trying to do, instead of just knowing what to do, once everything gets to be a reflex or instink, then you have it made

(I used to fly online in a online sim, I used to get into fights with one of the best Sissor guys in the game, and he used to scream that I must be cheating, as nobody could beat him, once he got into a Sissor fight (but he knew me, so it was more a joke, then a complaint), once I stopped and thought about it, it took me a week to work out what I was doing when I fought him, to think out the moves, I was making and when and why, once I worked it out, we were shocked, most people in a Sissors, when the lead guy is in a right bank, you will be in a bank left and trying to turn into them, but by they time they get close, the lead guy is banking left and it starts all over, and you just keep crisscrossing each other, until one guy stalls out, for me, instead of doing the bank to follow his bank, I would turn it into a full roll, and most times, that would put me onto his tail, long story, short, by reflex I was beating him at what he was doing, with out thinking about what or why I was doing it)

soooooo

try a stick rudder first, if the helps, but not as much as you want or think it should, then try the petals (hopefully you are in a area, where you can try them out first, as most of the good ones, cost alot)



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Post #: 16
RE: Help with fflying - 6/22/2006 10:53:40 PM   
HomeFries


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Joined: 7/4/2004
Status: offline 		Bibbo,

Man, you're really getting into the varsity level now!

Getting and holding a firing solution is arguably the toughest part of the game; if you can get that down, you've really entered the big time.

Here's what I recommend for starters:
Switch OFF Realistic Gunnery
Enable Unlimited Ammo
Set convergence for 400 meters

There's no shame in easing the realism. If you keep realistic gunnery on, you won't get a feel of whether you're really hitting the target, and if you leave limited ammo on, you'll run out before you get started. Neither will help you develop a sight picture for leading your target. Instead, try to hit the target from .40 out (there's that 400m convergence) and adjust fire. You'll see flashes when you hit your target. Once you get a better feel, pretend like you have limited ammo and try to make your hits using short bursts.

Once you have this down, go ahead and switch on Realistic Gunnery. Along with this, set your convergence closer (I use 200m), as you won't do as much at long range due to the combination of dispersion and weaker hits. Now try to engage your targets at your convergence range. By the way, if you are flying the 109, convergence is a non-issue in your nose cannons, but this is still good practice to get in close, as cannon shells are also slower than bullets and require more lead.

Once you can line up and take down targets at will with minimal expendature of ammo, go ahead and go to limited ammo. You will likely see your kills drop, but the thrill is worth it.

Last thing: the biggest mistake most people make when deflection shooting is not leading the target enough. When you start, see where you think you should lead the target, then add some more lead until you finally calibrate your eyeball.

Good luck; hope this helps.


_____________________________

“Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty.”
― Robert A. Heinlein

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Post #: 17
RE: Help with fflying - 6/22/2006 11:01:16 PM   
HomeFries


Posts: 88
Joined: 7/4/2004
Status: offline 		One more thing, Bibbo.

I know this is basic, but sometimes overlooked.  Do you lock your tailwheel after taxiing and before takeoff?  That might help with your ground operations.

BTW, if gunnery is the hardest part of the sim, then landing is the second hardest and taxiing/takeoff is the third hardest


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“Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty.”
― Robert A. Heinlein

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Post #: 18
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