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Constructing Multi-national Core Forces - 6/24/2006 3:26:54 AM   
KG Erwin


Posts: 8981
Joined: 7/25/2000
From: Cross Lanes WV USA
Status: offline 		So, you wanna start a long campaign, but incorporate some allies into your force. For "bang for your buck", I look at the ANZAC OOB. Historical? Absolutely. Look at the composition of MacArthur's forces in the Southwest Pacific Area.

OK, so I concentrate on the Marines in the Southern/Central Pacific, which remained exclusively American, but "dugout Doug" had a nice mix of nationalities under his command. It's a great alternative, and gives one a chance to explore the potential of the great troopers in the other OOBs.

The only catch is, under the auspices of US Army command, the replacements will take on US morale/experience characteristics.

Same goes for the Germans in the southern front in Barbarossa. The 11th Army had Romanian units under direct operational control, and this was expanded to include Hungarian and Italian units later on.

Strictly speaking, the German allies had some independence, but for game purposes, those allied units are under your control. All it takes is the willingness to experiment.

< Message edited by KG Erwin -- 6/24/2006 3:38:54 AM >
Post #: 1
RE: Constructing Multi-national Core Forces - 6/24/2006 3:38:38 AM   
azraelck

 

Posts: 581
Joined: 1/16/2006
Status: offline 		Lately, I've been making note of abandoned vehicles and guns, and been incorporating them into my force as "captured" units to replace destroyed units. I never straight up replace a functioning unit with a "captured" one, however. A couple Renault tanks, A couple Matilda IIs, ect... here and there. Adds some variety and spice to my force, as well as makes up for the inherant deficiencies of my core, which in the above examples consist of Panzer II, III, and IV units. The Panzer III's, IIRC, were equipped with a less than effective low-velocity 37mm, the Panzer IVs a low-velocity 75mm. Of course, the 20mm gun of the Panzer IIs are worthless against tanks. An FT17 could take one of them, IMO. 

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RE: Constructing Multi-national Core Forces - 6/24/2006 3:43:49 AM   
KG Erwin


Posts: 8981
Joined: 7/25/2000
From: Cross Lanes WV USA
Status: offline 		Azraelck, are you referring to the desert campaign?  The Afrika Korps was famous for incorporating captured equipment into its inventory.  The most famous example was Rommel's adaptation of a British command vehicle for his own use.  This became known as the Mammoth. (Mammut).  

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Post #: 3
RE: Constructing Multi-national Core Forces - 6/24/2006 4:39:50 AM   
azraelck

 

Posts: 581
Joined: 1/16/2006
Status: offline 		I am well aware of that fact. Though, I started a bit earlier, with a captured french tank in my third battle. Nothing in the Polish or Belgium equipment survived or was equal to the equipment I had already, so I ignored it. It's just a thing I started to do with this particular campaign, though I'm having issues due to a lack of the 8.8cms that were so instrumental in the early victories in N. Africa. I may lose a battle, just so I can get some for the next one.

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RE: Constructing Multi-national Core Forces - 6/24/2006 5:31:49 AM   
Korpraali V


Posts: 659
Joined: 7/11/2005
From: Finland
Status: offline 		Taking the Commonwealth in North Africa or in India/Burma brings you lots of opportunities:

North Africa:
-British
-India
-ANZAC
(-Free French)
(-Greek)

India/Burma:
-British
-India
-ANZAC
-Nationalist China




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Post #: 5
RE: Constructing Multi-national Core Forces - 6/25/2006 2:29:45 PM   
Puukkoo


Posts: 472
Joined: 7/19/2005
From: Seinäjoki, Finland
Status: offline 		I buy Italians with support points when I play as Germans in North Africa. Long campaign is just another way to test the Enchanced Mod.


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Post #: 6
RE: Constructing Multi-national Core Forces - 6/28/2006 7:47:10 AM   
forgorin

 

Posts: 260
Joined: 10/12/2005
From: Africa
Status: offline 		Chechs

Been playing them in the German campaign.  What a blast.  After the first few battles (if you dont lose) their moral gets better and is no longer such a problem.  Their next problem is that they have really crappy tanks.  They do squat against anythign with armor!  However they do get some captured flame tanks from the Germans who in turn seems to have gotten them off the french.  January '42 rolled around and tada.  I have Tiger tanks!  Can you beleive it.  The Germans dont have it yet.  Well anyways they did not fair well at all.  They had morales of less than 20!  So they were quite useless.
Besides all that.  Wow! What fun! 
Next up the Indians vs the Japanese!

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RE: Constructing Multi-national Core Forces - 6/28/2006 7:52:43 AM   
Alby


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Joined: 4/29/2000
From: Greenwood, Indiana
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: forgorin

Chechs
January '42 rolled around and tada. I have Tiger tanks! Can you beleive it. The Germans dont have it yet.

That error has been caught and corrected for Enhanced V2


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RE: Constructing Multi-national Core Forces - 6/28/2006 8:09:05 AM   
forgorin

 

Posts: 260
Joined: 10/12/2005
From: Africa
Status: offline 		When should they be out?  The same as the Germans or later?  It its much later then I dont kow if my tanks can stand getting shredded anymore!

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Post #: 9
RE: Constructing Multi-national Core Forces - 6/28/2006 9:22:14 AM   
Korpraali V


Posts: 659
Joined: 7/11/2005
From: Finland
Status: offline 		Those GE -marked units are not Chechoslovakian. They are extremely rare German units that are placed to Chechoslovakian OOB because there is not enough room in German OOB. 

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RE: Constructing Multi-national Core Forces - 6/28/2006 12:05:22 PM   
forgorin

 

Posts: 260
Joined: 10/12/2005
From: Africa
Status: offline 		OH

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Post #: 11
RE: Constructing Multi-national Core Forces - 6/28/2006 7:14:15 PM   
Alby


Posts: 4855
Joined: 4/29/2000
From: Greenwood, Indiana
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Korpraali V

Those GE -marked units are not Chechoslovakian. They are extremely rare German units that are placed to Chechoslovakian OOB because there is not enough room in German OOB.

Actually I have no idea why the Tiger tank is even in the Czech oob. But it always has been there it seems.

hopefully someday, that messed up oob can get straightend around.
Major D is working on it, but will be a long time until it is done I am afraid.
ya got Czechs, Slovaks, German stuff in there, the IND forces.
My choice would be to make alot of that rare German stuff in there available only 1949 for scenario design.
plus get rid of the duplicate stuff thats already in the German OOB.
Marders, SP mortars, sp flak units and more.
I may just do that for Version 2 and then Major can keep working on it "behind the scenes"




< Message edited by Alby -- 6/28/2006 7:19:52 PM >

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RE: Constructing Multi-national Core Forces - 6/28/2006 8:06:03 PM   
Korpraali V


Posts: 659
Joined: 7/11/2005
From: Finland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Alby
Actually I have no idea why the Tiger tank is even in the Czech oob. But it always has been there it seems.



Possible test version?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Alby
ya got Czechs, Slovaks, German stuff in there, the IND forces.


IND?

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RE: Constructing Multi-national Core Forces - 6/28/2006 9:45:46 PM   
Don Doom


Posts: 2446
Joined: 9/23/2000
From: Lost somewhere in the upper backwoods of Michigan!
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Alby

quote:

ORIGINAL: Korpraali V

Those GE -marked units are not Chechoslovakian. They are extremely rare German units that are placed to Chechoslovakian OOB because there is not enough room in German OOB.

Actually I have no idea why the Tiger tank is even in the Czech oob. But it always has been there it seems.

hopefully someday, that messed up oob can get straightend around.
Major D is working on it, but will be a long time until it is done I am afraid.
ya got Czechs, Slovaks, German stuff in there, the IND forces.
My choice would be to make alot of that rare German stuff in there available only 1949 for scenario design.
plus get rid of the duplicate stuff thats already in the German OOB.
Marders, SP mortars, sp flak units and more.
I may just do that for Version 2 and then Major can keep working on it "behind the scenes"





Actually i don't agree with making most or all of the german units designer only units. Once in awhile it is nice to have them to use in the long campaigns. That is when I get some free time to play again.


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For death is only the begining

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Post #: 14
RE: Constructing Multi-national Core Forces - 6/28/2006 10:11:08 PM   
Alby


Posts: 4855
Joined: 4/29/2000
From: Greenwood, Indiana
Status: offline 		Ya I agree, I changed my mind on the 49 only thing, but am gonna remove the duplicates.


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RE: Constructing Multi-national Core Forces - 6/28/2006 10:53:13 PM   
Don Doom


Posts: 2446
Joined: 9/23/2000
From: Lost somewhere in the upper backwoods of Michigan!
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Alby

Ya I agree, I changed my mind on the 49 only thing, but am gonna remove the duplicates.



What dup's?


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Post #: 16
RE: Constructing Multi-national Core Forces - 6/28/2006 11:11:34 PM   
Alby


Posts: 4855
Joined: 4/29/2000
From: Greenwood, Indiana
Status: offline 		Tiger, SdKfz 251/2, Marder III H,(Czechs already have one of these anyway .) Panther II, Maus, Pzfst 150, King Tiger, 76mm auf Zgkw (Diana), 88mm auf Zgkw (12t-DB10), Grille, 170mm FH....
some others I dont recall at the moment.



BTW anyone with any knowledge of actual Czech forces, contact Major Destruction, he posted a message asking for same over at The Depot.


< Message edited by Alby -- 6/28/2006 11:26:07 PM >

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RE: Constructing Multi-national Core Forces - 6/29/2006 12:13:27 AM   
Don Doom


Posts: 2446
Joined: 9/23/2000
From: Lost somewhere in the upper backwoods of Michigan!
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Alby

Tiger, SdKfz 251/2, Marder III H,(Czechs already have one of these anyway .) Panther II, Maus, Pzfst 150, King Tiger, 76mm auf Zgkw (Diana), 88mm auf Zgkw (12t-DB10), Grille, 170mm FH....
some others I dont recall at the moment.



What did ya'll remove to add the german equipment back to the german oob?
If you want to send your answer by pm, that is fine since I beleive we have hi-jacked this thread long enough.

don

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For death is only the begining

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Post #: 18
RE: Constructing Multi-national Core Forces - 6/29/2006 12:39:09 AM   
Alby


Posts: 4855
Joined: 4/29/2000
From: Greenwood, Indiana
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Don Doom


quote:

ORIGINAL: Alby

Tiger, SdKfz 251/2, Marder III H,(Czechs already have one of these anyway .) Panther II, Maus, Pzfst 150, King Tiger, 76mm auf Zgkw (Diana), 88mm auf Zgkw (12t-DB10), Grille, 170mm FH....
some others I dont recall at the moment.



What did ya'll remove to add the german equipment back to the german oob?
If you want to send your answer by pm, that is fine since I beleive we have hi-jacked this thread long enough.

don

hehehehe
Gunny wont mind, he hijacks em all the time.

anyway the Tiger, King tiger, 251/2, Marder III H, Maus and the Grille were already in the German OOB.
so why they needed to be duplicated and placed in the Czech OOB as "rare" German stuff is beyond me.
Plus the Czech tiger was avaialble before the German one!!
LOL
I know the King tiger was supposed to represent the protoype one from Porsche I think? I have fofrgotten now, but the unit being in CZech is still redundant.
had basically same stats.
The 170mm FH, Pzfst 150, Diana and 12T db10 now all in German oob.

Okay done hijacking now




< Message edited by Alby -- 6/29/2006 12:40:10 AM >

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RE: Constructing Multi-national Core Forces - 6/29/2006 3:33:45 AM   
Don Doom


Posts: 2446
Joined: 9/23/2000
From: Lost somewhere in the upper backwoods of Michigan!
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Alby

quote:

ORIGINAL: Don Doom


quote:

ORIGINAL: Alby

Tiger, SdKfz 251/2, Marder III H,(Czechs already have one of these anyway .) Panther II, Maus, Pzfst 150, King Tiger, 76mm auf Zgkw (Diana), 88mm auf Zgkw (12t-DB10), Grille, 170mm FH....
some others I dont recall at the moment.



What did ya'll remove to add the german equipment back to the german oob?
If you want to send your answer by pm, that is fine since I beleive we have hi-jacked this thread long enough.

don

hehehehe
Gunny wont mind, he hijacks em all the time.

anyway the Tiger, King tiger, 251/2, Marder III H, Maus and the Grille were already in the German OOB.
so why they needed to be duplicated and placed in the Czech OOB as "rare" German stuff is beyond me.
Plus the Czech tiger was avaialble before the German one!!
LOL
I know the King tiger was supposed to represent the protoype one from Porsche I think? I have fofrgotten now, but the unit being in CZech is still redundant.
had basically same stats.
The 170mm FH, Pzfst 150, Diana and 12T db10 now all in German oob.

Okay done hijacking now





The Porsche King turret armor is different, hull is the same. Had a large shot trap under the main gun as this would deflex the rounds down into the hull if hit under the front nose of the turret. Most where lost in normandy, so I would not just get rid of them, as they did play a part in the normandy battles up to the carpet bombing just before patton broke out.
mail me and we will talk about. Promis not to yell


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Doom
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For death is only the begining

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Post #: 20
RE: Constructing Multi-national Core Forces - 6/29/2006 4:01:23 AM   
Alby


Posts: 4855
Joined: 4/29/2000
From: Greenwood, Indiana
Status: offline 		Wow thats right, it wasnt just a protype, sort of, about 50 or so made with porsche turret.
Hell this thing ought to be in the German OOB!!




< Message edited by Alby -- 6/29/2006 4:25:20 AM >

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RE: Constructing Multi-national Core Forces - 6/29/2006 4:24:29 AM   
Don Doom


Posts: 2446
Joined: 9/23/2000
From: Lost somewhere in the upper backwoods of Michigan!
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Alby

Wow thats right, it wasnt just a protype, about 50 or so made with porsche turret?
Hell this thing ought to be in the German OOB!!




"Krupp had designed the turrets to fit both the Porsche and Henschel chassis. The initial design called P-2 Turm (or commonly known as Porsche turret) mounted a single piece (monobloc) barrel of the 88mm and had a curved mantlet in the front. The front armor was 100 mm thick, the sides were 88mm thick sloped at 60 degrees and the top armor was 40mm thick. It had space to carry 16 rounds of ammunition in the turret. However, the curved mantlet in the front acted as a shot trap by deflecting incoming shots downwards towards the roof of the hull. A new design was ordered to fix this but as an interim measure, it was decided to go ahead with the production of 50 units with this turret. This was commonly referred to as Porsche turret. The new design called Serien Turm, or commonly known as Henschel or Production turret was to retain the many features of the Porsche turret and was to be adopted for mass production. Henschel turret had the front curved mantlet replaced with one 180mm thick armor plate sloped at 81 degrees. The sides were altered to slope at 69 degrees and it could carry an additional 6 six rounds or 22 rounds of ammunition in the turret. The full combat weight was 68,500kg when fitted with the Porsche turret and 69,800kg with the Henschel turret."

Quote from: http://www.worldwar2aces.com/



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Doom
Vet of the Russian General Winter
For death is only the begining

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Post #: 22
RE: Constructing Multi-national Core Forces - 6/29/2006 4:25:43 AM   
Alby


Posts: 4855
Joined: 4/29/2000
From: Greenwood, Indiana
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Don Doom


quote:

ORIGINAL: Alby

Wow thats right, it wasnt just a protype, about 50 or so made with porsche turret?
Hell this thing ought to be in the German OOB!!




"Krupp had designed the turrets to fit both the Porsche and Henschel chassis. The initial design called P-2 Turm (or commonly known as Porsche turret) mounted a single piece (monobloc) barrel of the 88mm and had a curved mantlet in the front. The front armor was 100 mm thick, the sides were 88mm thick sloped at 60 degrees and the top armor was 40mm thick. It had space to carry 16 rounds of ammunition in the turret. However, the curved mantlet in the front acted as a shot trap by deflecting incoming shots downwards towards the roof of the hull. A new design was ordered to fix this but as an interim measure, it was decided to go ahead with the production of 50 units with this turret. This was commonly referred to as Porsche turret. The new design called Serien Turm, or commonly known as Henschel or Production turret was to retain the many features of the Porsche turret and was to be adopted for mass production. Henschel turret had the front curved mantlet replaced with one 180mm thick armor plate sloped at 81 degrees. The sides were altered to slope at 69 degrees and it could carry an additional 6 six rounds or 22 rounds of ammunition in the turret. The full combat weight was 68,500kg when fitted with the Porsche turret and 69,800kg with the Henschel turret."

Quote from: http://www.worldwar2aces.com/




hehe I read same exact thing at different site.

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Post #: 23
RE: Constructing Multi-national Core Forces - 6/29/2006 4:28:38 AM   
Don Doom


Posts: 2446
Joined: 9/23/2000
From: Lost somewhere in the upper backwoods of Michigan!
Status: offline 		Figured it was faster then me find the dozen or so panzer books I have and type in a quote!

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Doom
Vet of the Russian General Winter
For death is only the begining

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Post #: 24
RE: Constructing Multi-national Core Forces - 6/29/2006 4:30:20 AM   
Alby


Posts: 4855
Joined: 4/29/2000
From: Greenwood, Indiana
Status: offline 		Good catch there Don


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Post #: 25
RE: Constructing Multi-national Core Forces - 6/29/2006 4:39:44 AM   
Don Doom


Posts: 2446
Joined: 9/23/2000
From: Lost somewhere in the upper backwoods of Michigan!
Status: offline 		try to help most times.

_____________________________

Doom
Vet of the Russian General Winter
For death is only the begining

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Post #: 26
RE: Constructing Multi-national Core Forces - 6/29/2006 4:39:55 AM   
forgorin

 

Posts: 260
Joined: 10/12/2005
From: Africa
Status: offline 		Damn.  Looks like I dont get any goodies then

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Stress is the confusion created when ones own mind over rides the bodies desire to choke the living **** out of some asshole who really deserves it!

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Post #: 27
RE: Constructing Multi-national Core Forces - 6/29/2006 4:44:44 AM   
Don Doom


Posts: 2446
Joined: 9/23/2000
From: Lost somewhere in the upper backwoods of Michigan!
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: forgorin

Damn.  Looks like I dont get any goodies then


Well he did not delete any just moved them around thats all.


_____________________________

Doom
Vet of the Russian General Winter
For death is only the begining

(in reply to forgorin)
Post #: 28
RE: Constructing Multi-national Core Forces - 6/29/2006 7:26:55 AM   
Alby


Posts: 4855
Joined: 4/29/2000
From: Greenwood, Indiana
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Don Doom


quote:

ORIGINAL: forgorin

Damn. Looks like I dont get any goodies then


Well he did not delete any just moved them around thats all.


I sent them home where they belong

You can have your thread back now Gunny


< Message edited by Alby -- 6/29/2006 7:28:45 AM >

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Post #: 29
RE: Constructing Multi-national Core Forces - 6/29/2006 9:47:15 AM   
forgorin

 

Posts: 260
Joined: 10/12/2005
From: Africa
Status: offline 		I know.  Now it feels a bit like theft!  Oh well I guess the Germans arnt against shairing a little!

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Post #: 30
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