RE: Enemy Deep Strike Carrier Missions!

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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> War In The Pacific - Struggle Against Japan 1941 - 1945 >> After Action Reports >> RE: Enemy Deep Strike Carrier Missions!

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RE: Enemy Deep Strike Carrier Missions! - 7/5/2006 12:36:47 AM

Sneer

Posts: 2654
Joined: 10/29/2003
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I would move KB to Shanghai for a next 2-3 days
just in case

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RE: Enemy Deep Strike Carrier Missions! - 7/5/2006 1:29:31 AM

Honda

Posts: 953
Joined: 5/5/2004
From: Karlovac, Croatia
Status: offline

Karachi?

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AAR of my game vs Raver on my clan forum in croatian language (despite the language differences, no Ravers allowed)

(in reply to Sneer)

Post #: 2642

RE: Enemy Deep Strike Carrier Missions! - 7/5/2006 2:40:44 AM

Fishbed

Posts: 1822
Joined: 11/21/2005
From: Beijing, China - Paris, France
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This Carrier groups are quite weak, there is not so much air escort, apparently everything is allocated to the CAP... If you send your boys under CAP umbrella the Helldivers may dive to hell a little quicker

Btw how is Mac gonna protect his invasion force with so many Carriers at sea?

< Message edited by Fishbed -- 7/5/2006 2:51:05 AM >

(in reply to Honda)

Post #: 2643

RE: Enemy Deep Strike Carrier Missions! - 7/5/2006 1:15:58 PM

castor troy

Posts: 14330
Joined: 8/23/2004
From: Austria
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quote:

ORIGINAL: PzB

There's a big super heavy Artillery Brigade in China with 24x240mm and 36x150 mm guns�

But those aren�t capable of shooting at ships. Do you think it�s worth loosing them if they only inflict some casualties at his infantry?

(in reply to PzB74)

Post #: 2644

RE: Enemy Deep Strike Carrier Missions! - 7/5/2006 1:47:39 PM

Fishbed

Posts: 1822
Joined: 11/21/2005
From: Beijing, China - Paris, France
Status: offline

hey looking in the archives for interesting stuff, I found this is one Mogami's AAR

quote:

Air attack on Emirau Island , at 60,84

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zeke x 48
B6N Jill x 18
P1Y Frances x 20

Allied aircraft
F4U-1 Corsair x 14

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M5 Zeke: 12 destroyed
B6N Jill: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
F4U-1 Corsair: 13 destroyed, 1 damaged
SBD Dauntless: 3 destroyed, 6 damaged
PB4Y Liberator: 1 destroyed, 1 damaged

Airbase hits 3
Airbase supply hits 3
Runway hits 18

Aircraft Attacking:
16 x B6N Jill bombing at 5000 feet
15 x P1Y Frances bombing at 9000 feet
3 x P1Y Frances bombing at 9000 feet
1 x B6N Jill bombing at 5000 feet
2 x P1Y Frances bombing at 9000 feet
Air attack on Shortlands , at 63,93

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=562039&mpage=2

Even accounting for some ground losses, how does this kind of things can happen? That should be reproductible!

(in reply to castor troy)

Post #: 2645

RE: Enemy Deep Strike Carrier Missions! - 7/5/2006 2:08:18 PM

AmiralLaurent

Posts: 3351
Joined: 3/11/2003
From: Near Paris, France
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Fishbed

hey looking in the archives for interesting stuff, I found this is one Mogami's AAR

quote:

Air attack on Emirau Island , at 60,84

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zeke x 48
B6N Jill x 18
P1Y Frances x 20

Allied aircraft
F4U-1 Corsair�x 14

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M5 Zeke: 12 destroyed
B6N Jill: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
F4U-1 Corsair: 13 destroyed, 1 damaged
SBD Dauntless: 3 destroyed, 6 damaged
PB4Y Liberator: 1 destroyed, 1 damaged

Airbase hits 3
Airbase supply hits 3
Runway hits 18

Aircraft Attacking:
16 x B6N Jill bombing at 5000 feet
15 x P1Y Frances bombing at 9000 feet
3 x P1Y Frances bombing at 9000 feet
1 x B6N Jill bombing at 5000 feet
2 x P1Y Frances bombing at 9000 feet
Air attack on Shortlands , at 63,93

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=562039&mpage=2

Even accounting for some ground losses, how does this kind of things can happen? That should be reproductible!

In this case, A6M5 outnumber Corsair by 3 to 1, and air losses should be even between both sides. We don't know how many of the Corsairs were destroyed on the ground. Also there was probably only one defending unit. So Mog or his opponent get lucky for once, or the US pilots were flying LRCAP and very tired or whatever.

But in a battle ten times greater, with 480 A6M5 facing 140 Corsairs, statistics will go back in USN favor. But a CV battle will be more some hundred Zekes facing several hundred Corsairs/Hellcats, launching a concentrated raid is far more difficult than combing CAP in WITP.

PzB I find interesting that Andy is fanning out with his CVs. It should be possible one day to strike one and overwhelm it. But I think you should stick with your plan and keep all your AC in reserve until the invasion convoy arrives.

In the meantime maybe you can use transport AC to ferry more troops in Pagan ?

As for the 240mm guns, bringing them out of China was a good idea but they won't fire on bombardment TF, only CD guns do. But they will fire on landing troops and ships and will then devastate them!!! By the way, it seems to me that the Saipan Base Force has 8in CD guns ?

(in reply to Fishbed)

Post #: 2646

RE: Enemy Deep Strike Carrier Missions! - 7/5/2006 2:14:43 PM

Fishbed

Posts: 1822
Joined: 11/21/2005
From: Beijing, China - Paris, France
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Yep Admiral of course you're right

Here btw are some interesting stuff from String trials one year ago with big Kami concentrated strikes. But no idea if this can be achieved without overstacking or without the Kami thing... But most of the plane were flying normal missions, so there is some hope if the rule didn't change in the patchs...?

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=876188&mpage=1

(in reply to AmiralLaurent)

Post #: 2647

RE: Enemy Deep Strike Carrier Missions! - 7/5/2006 3:39:25 PM

veji1

Posts: 1019
Joined: 7/9/2005
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it would be great to see a test done with NikMod 7 on that issue, with the tweaked f2F in A2A...

Late war testing is really the key there...

Anyway be brave PZB, make the emperor proud of you !!!

(in reply to Fishbed)

Post #: 2648

RE: Enemy Deep Strike Carrier Missions! - 7/5/2006 4:54:57 PM

AmiralLaurent

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From: Near Paris, France
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The key will be to be able to hit the transport TF rather than the CV... CAP will usually be lower over them.

In WITP you can try to do it by reducing the range of your attack unit.

In UV I managed this by doing something else. On the turn I wanted to launch my attack, I turned all naval search off. To replace it I sent subs and warships into the attacked bases, and if troops had allready been landed, I sent as much recon planes as I could there. The combinasion of ground spotters, recon and ships was usually high enough to trigger naval attack raids.
I tried this 3 times and it worked 2 (that is raids were launched on the exact hex I wanted): once I sank 1 BB, 1 CLAA, and a dozen minor ships for the loss of 400 AC, the other I sank 2 CVE and 5-6 transports for the loss of 100, the last there was no raid.

In WITP you can do this by sending AC in your invaded bases with naval search orders 100%, range 0. But that will have to be tested. The problem here is that you will hit ships probably after they began landing troops. Could be a good idea if the base is well defended by ART and mines, and so a part of the ships will be damaged and AA reduced. If Allied troops land but without much supplies, they won't be a threat and may be stranded, or at least heavily damaged before the base falls.

(in reply to veji1)

Post #: 2649

RE: Enemy Deep Strike Carrier Missions! - 7/5/2006 5:43:11 PM

RUPD3658

Posts: 6922
Joined: 8/28/2002
From: East Brunswick, NJ
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quote:

ORIGINAL: PzB

There's a big super heavy Artillery Brigade in China with 24x240mm and 36x150 mm guns�

8th Heavy arty brigade. Well worth the 600 PPs to buy it from Kwangtung.

I have had great success with it in China.

_____________________________

"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has limits"- Darwin Awards 2003

"No plan survives contact with the enemy." - Field Marshall Helmuth von Moltke

(in reply to PzB74)

Post #: 2650

RE: Enemy Deep Strike Carrier Missions! - 7/5/2006 10:27:35 PM

PzB74

Posts: 5076
Joined: 10/3/2000
From: No(r)way
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Seems like Andy is pulling his troops further out, so the fleet is safe in its anchorage.

The 240 and 150mm guns are meant to be invasion fleet destroyers. Each of the islands in
the Marianas got big Coastal Defence Units. The largest one is in Saipan and fields 8" guns.
The 240mm guns were sent to Saipan a long time ago, regret it now. Should have sent em to Pagan...

Admiral, I will try your recon trick

I know night air attacks often aids subs to their targets
and increase the chance of succesful night naval air attacks by Emily's.

Since I think Andy's occupied with my troop convoy and only 1 enemy carrier TF is close to the Marianas
I've decided that it's time for a test. Not a lot of crack fighters, but a sizeable number of escorts will
attempt to lead 250 bombers towards some of the US bird farms. Rainy tomorrow and I'm not sure Andy
will actually sail within 6 hexes of Saipan.

Thanx for the input guys, greatly appreciated. I do make use of this info and my victories are also yours

AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 05/24/44

Air Combat

My Emily's on night naval attack decided to attack barges in mid ocean hex!

(NE of Timor)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Air attack on TF at 32,74

Japanese aircraft
H8K Emily x 6

No Japanese losses

Allied Ships
LCI LCI-435
LCT LCT-158

Aircraft Attacking:
2 x H8K Emily launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x H8K Emily launching torpedoes at 200 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm a bit curious about these strikes against Wake Island. Unloading a troop
convoy there right now - at least this one got through.

Day Air attack on Wake Island , at 82,63

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 6
A6M5 Zeke x 21

Allied aircraft
F-5C Lightning x 7
PB4Y Liberator x 6
B-24J Liberator x 39

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 1 destroyed, 3 damaged
A6M5 Zeke: 5 destroyed, 12 damaged
H8K Emily: 1 destroyed
G4M2 Betty: 1 destroyed
Ki-46-III Dinah: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
F-5C Lightning: 2 damaged
B-24J Liberator: 7 damaged

Japanese ground losses:
21 casualties reported
Guns lost 1

Airbase hits 10
Airbase supply hits 5
Runway hits 76
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Pagan was hit by a small strike...moved some Oscars in just for shows sake.

Day Air attack on Pagan , at 64,62

Allied aircraft
SB2C Helldiver x 24

Allied aircraft losses
SB2C Helldiver: 1 destroyed, 6 damaged

Japanese ground losses:
14 casualties reported

Runway hits 10
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
My unfortunate troop convoy was caught between no less than 2 enemy carrier TFs and
6-7 ships were hit hard with 2 sunk. Still, the larger part should reach Bonin
and Marcus islands tomorrow. Again it was a good idea to move troops in twice as many
ships as neeed. Bonin Island got 350 CAP fighters to protect the transports with now.

I've listed the individual ships that got hit. The small escorts took a lot of the
heat and saved many troops today

PG Tosho Maru, Bomb hits 6, on fire, heavy damage
PC Ch 32, Torpedo hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
PC PC-17, Bomb hits 5, on fire, heavy damage
PC PC-16, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
PC Ch 6, Bomb hits 1, on fire, heavy damage

AP Kiko Maru, Bomb hits 1
AP Kasima Maru, Torpedo hits 2, on fire
AP Yuzan Maru, Torpedo hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
AP Hokutatsu Maru, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
AP Genbu Maru, Bomb hits 13, on fire, heavy damage
AK Menado Maru, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
AP Haaburu Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
AP Kasui Maru, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
AP Yubae Maru, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage

Japanese ground losses:
55 casualties reported
Guns lost 2
88 casualties reported
Guns lost 5
346 casualties reported
Guns lost 15
23 casualties reported
29 casualties reported
37 casualties reported
71 casualties reported
82 casualties reported
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Enemy Deep Strikes

Andy's nose didn't fail him - no less than 2 of the carrier TF's headed for the convoy
he just spotted yesterday and left most of the empty ships alone.

Let's see if we can blunt his force a bit...a strong effort against 'weak' enemy units
got a fair chance of success.

Attachment (1)

_____________________________

"The problem in defense is how far you can go without destroying from within what you are trying to defend from without"
- Dwight D. Eisenhower

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Post #: 2651

RE: Enemy Deep Strike Carrier Missions! - 7/5/2006 11:09:52 PM

pauk

Posts: 4162
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From: Zagreb,Croatia
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what is sizeable number of fighters to you? Can you count that your escort will outnumber Allied CAP? if the answer is yes then sounds as a good try....

Otherwise, i suspect that Samurais will commit

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Post #: 2652

RE: Enemy Deep Strike Carrier Missions! - 7/5/2006 11:24:37 PM

PzB74

Posts: 5076
Joined: 10/3/2000
From: No(r)way
Status: offline

If 250 fighters can escort 150 bombers in a single strike the enemy carrier TF will be toast

Knowing this game it will be 140 fighters and 40 bombers were 4 return to base

_____________________________

"The problem in defense is how far you can go without destroying from within what you are trying to defend from without"
- Dwight D. Eisenhower

(in reply to pauk)

Post #: 2653

RE: Enemy Deep Strike Carrier Missions! - 7/6/2006 12:20:59 AM

pauk

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From: Zagreb,Croatia
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good luck with that one. I suppose you are aware that air balance number (shown at the base hex) offer great intel to the enemy - so if Andy moves cursor over the base he will know that you move plenty of planes.

"Red cross" is nothing compared to air balance number...

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RE: Enemy Deep Strike Carrier Missions! - 7/6/2006 1:22:34 AM

PzB74

Posts: 5076
Joined: 10/3/2000
From: No(r)way
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Surprising Andy is like winning in lotto...
Today he merged all his 3 carrier TF's outside Bonin Island. Bad weather
prevented PM strikes and only 1 AP and a few escorts were sunk during the AM phase.
The CAP trap caught 24 SBD's but they turned around due to bad morale pretty quickly.

5 transports are unloading parts of the 91st Div at Marcus Island while 4 are left to unload
at Bonin.

A large enemy fleet is moving out from the Marshalls towards Eniwetok. In a few days we'll
know which direction they'll be heading.

All the carriers of Strike Force I have reached Japan. They will move to Naha with cv Akoma
in 4 days. One more week and we'll be receiving Franks. 2 weeks and we'll upgrade the first
Tojos and the first Franks should be ready for combat in ca 3.

All Zeke's Daitais that are depleted now will not be trained until after the next battle.
It's important to provide a lot of 'support' for the more experienced units. This way the
crack pilots stand a better chance to survive. Bomber units with 20 crack pilots will also
receive green replacements as these will be the first be shot down by enemy CAP/FLAK.

AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 05/25/44

Air Combat

Gawd I'm tired of these ocean going barges!

Night Air attack on TF at 33,76

Japanese aircraft
H8K Emily x 6

No Japanese losses

Allied Ships
LCT LCT-158
LCT LCT-148

Aircraft Attacking:
2 x H8K Emily launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x H8K Emily launching torpedoes at 200 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Wake Island , at 82,63

Japanese aircraft
no flights

Allied aircraft
F-5C Lightning x 5
PB4Y Liberator x 5
B-24J Liberator x 17

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M5 Zeke: 3 destroyed
A6M2 Zero: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
PB4Y Liberator: 1 damaged

Japanese ground losses:
14 casualties reported

Airbase hits 5
Airbase supply hits 1
Runway hits 31
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 68,52

Allied aircraft
SB2C Helldiver x 27

No Allied losses

Japanese Ships
PC Ch 6, Bomb hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 69,52

Allied aircraft
TBM Avenger x 17

No Allied losses

Japanese Ships
PC PC-16, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF, near Bonin at 65,52

Japanese aircraft
N1K1-J George x 27
J1N1-S Irving x 14
Ki-43-IIa Oscar x 35
Ki-44-IIb Tojo x 33
Ki-45 KAIa Nick x 20
Ki-61 KAIc Tony x 32

Allied aircraft - chiken run....

SB2C Helldiver x 26

No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
SB2C Helldiver: 7 destroyed, 1 damaged
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 66,52

Allied aircraft
SB2C Helldiver x 23

No Allied losses

Japanese Ships
AP Haaburu Maru, Bomb hits 7, on fire, heavy damage

Japanese ground losses:
286 casualties reported
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 68,52

Allied aircraft
SB2C Helldiver x 16

Allied aircraft losses
SB2C Helldiver: 1 damaged

Japanese Ships
PC PC-15, Bomb hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 33,77

Japanese aircraft
D4Y Judy x 17

Japanese aircraft losses
D4Y Judy: 1 damaged

Allied Ships
AK Elna, Bomb hits 5, on fire, heavy damage
LCT LCT-366, on fire, heavy damage
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

_____________________________

"The problem in defense is how far you can go without destroying from within what you are trying to defend from without"
- Dwight D. Eisenhower

(in reply to pauk)

Post #: 2655

RE: Enemy Deep Strike Carrier Missions! - 7/6/2006 8:26:26 PM

PzB74

Posts: 5076
Joined: 10/3/2000
From: No(r)way
Status: offline

Enemy carriers retreats South by East. Andy did not want to challenge the CAP over
the Bonins. So we managed to unload the rest of our division. Some 180 AP left of 350

The 91st Division will remain on Bonin and Marcus Island and strengthen the garrisons there.

The enemy invasion force is now at Eniwetok and tomorrow we should se which direction it takes.

I'm considering to send my mine layers back to the Marianas to refresh the minefields and try
to add some to the open water hexes around the islands.

AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 05/26/44

Sub/ASW Attacks

There are several enemy subs around and in the ports of Manila and Jesselton.
Several have been hit and 'sub sinking' messages are quite frequent.

The Pipefish got a clean kill today:

Sub attack at 42,52

Japanese Ships
AK Ina Maru, Torpedo hits 3, on fire, heavy damage

Allied Ships
SS Pipefish
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Air Combat

Dozens of air strikes but only the one against Wake Island had any strategic value.
In return our LBA hit a convoy of the Northern tip of PNG. These unescorted convoys
are pretty reckless of Andy but a necessity for having captured bases this far ahead.

Day Air attack on Wake Island , at 82,63

Japanese aircraft
no flights

Allied aircraft
F-5C Lightning x 6
PB4Y Liberator x 6
B-24J Liberator x 23

Japanese aircraft losses
H8K Emily: 1 destroyed

Japanese ground losses:
14 casualties reported

Airbase hits 3
Airbase supply hits 5
Runway hits 19
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 34,80

Japanese aircraft
D4Y Judy x 18

No Japanese losses

Allied Ships
LCT LCT-161
LCT LCT-329, Bomb hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
SC SC-982, Bomb hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
LCT LCT-134
LCT LCT-156, Bomb hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 44,72

Japanese aircraft
P1Y Frances x 4
Ki-21 Sally x 24

Japanese aircraft losses
P1Y Frances: 1 damaged
Ki-21 Sally: 6 damaged

Allied Ships
AK Kate Douglas Wiggin
AK Lawrence Gianella, Torpedo hits 1, on fire
AK Joseph Simon
AK Joseph Henry, Bomb hits 4, on fire, heavy damage
AK John W. Hoyt, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AK John J. Ingalls, Bomb hits 1, on fire
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 44,72

Japanese aircraft
Ki-21 Sally x 8

No Japanese losses

Allied Ships
AK Lawrence Gianella, Bomb hits 4, on fire, heavy damage *sinks*
AK John W. Hoyt, on fire
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

_____________________________

"The problem in defense is how far you can go without destroying from within what you are trying to defend from without"
- Dwight D. Eisenhower

(in reply to PzB74)

Post #: 2656

RE: Enemy Deep Strike Carrier Missions! - 7/6/2006 8:58:59 PM

pauk

Posts: 4162
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From: Zagreb,Croatia
Status: offline

that's why i so much hate air balance numbers!

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RE: Enemy Deep Strike Carrier Missions! - 7/6/2006 9:37:14 PM

veji1

Posts: 1019
Joined: 7/9/2005
Status: offline

Well I would think it shouldn't be too difficult to hide them to the players... I mean planes could still "sense" it to determine whether they strike or not, but players wouldn't see them... This way one just needs to leave planes in every bases ( chutais of dive bombers or FBs or NFs would do the trick since they are useless anyway ), and boom, problem of red cross and air balance solved...

(in reply to pauk)

Post #: 2658

RE: Enemy Deep Strike Carrier Missions! - 7/6/2006 10:02:52 PM

Sneer

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Joined: 10/29/2003
Status: offline

after seeing String's kamikaze test I think PZB should surrender

if 3000+ planes with numerous kamikaze could do nothing ......

Maybe Matrix will do some serious change in engine sometime when they see people are rather unhappy with certain areas of game mechanics

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(in reply to Sneer)

Post #: 2659

RE: Enemy Deep Strike Carrier Missions! - 7/6/2006 10:30:25 PM

veji1

Posts: 1019
Joined: 7/9/2005
Status: offline

well I would really like to see a similar test done with NikMod conditions, especially Nikmod 7.0...

Is someone willing to try ?

Anyway PZB, We are with you there... The decisive battle is there coming to you, decisive in the sense that if he flattens you, you will be done before 1945, while if you manage to repulse it or hurt him badly, you can at least have a glimpse at the new toys before you die...

(in reply to Sneer)

Post #: 2660

RE: Enemy Deep Strike Carrier Missions! - 7/6/2006 10:38:46 PM

PzB74

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From: No(r)way
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It's easy to place SOME ac in the Marianas, but it takes hundreds to make it look like
a big deployment. And if it is a big deployment, what will stop the B-29s from incinerating everything there

The plan is simple: Thousands of mines, heavy coastal defences, solid land fortifications and elite troops will
hurt and delay the enemy while our CAP whithers away the enemy's fighter strength. Small bomber formations will
continously snipe at enemy shipping, and if the force shield goes down for a sec we will try to launch a maximum effort strike.

The Combined Fleet still plays an important role: if we can find an opening the Kido Butai can still force the enemy
to react, much like what happened in the Battle for the Philippine Sea. The Nihon Kaigun can then surge in and attempt to
get to the invasion fleet.

At our disposal there are:
9 battleships
10 heavy cruisers
6 light cruisers
50 destroyers

I agree that large TF's ain't very effective, so I plan to divide these ships into smaller formations.
Something like this:

1st Battle Squadron
Yamato
Musashi
2 heavy cruisers
1 light cruiser
6 destroyers

2nd Battle Squadron
Nagato
Mutsu
2 heavy cruisers
6 destroyers

3rd Battle Squadron
Kongo
Kirishima
1 heavy cruiser
1 light cruiser
6 destroyers

4th Battle Squadron
Fuso
Yamashiro
Hyuga
1 heavy cruiser
1 light cruiser
6 destroyers

1st Cruiser Squadron
2 heavy cruisers
1 light cruiser
6 destroyers

2nd Cruiser Squadron
2 heavy cruisers
1 light cruiser
6 destroyers

1st Destroyer Squadron
1 light cruiser
9 destroyers

I envisage using only second rate carriers to force an enemy reaction. Escort Carriers doesn't
always do the trick, so I will be willing to sacrifice the slow Junyo and 2-3 of the new cve's with
capacity for only 9-12 ac. A screen of small destroyers will follow them together with an ASW TF
of fast PCs.

It would be ideal to put a large number of bombers on naval attack when such an effort is launched.
Enemy ships disperse wildly when attacked and damaged.

Such a plan is a bit dependent on how Andy deploys his ships. If he lands at Pagan he will have to choose
whether to place his carriers to the North, East, or West. I want him as far to the east as possible, and this
is were I want my carriers to lure him. This will create an opening for the surface fleet to move in and our subs
to intercept.

If we engage in such a death match the consequences may be grave, but at least we got a fighting chance.
Andy is low on surface combatants as he needs to escort dozens of carriers, invasion fleets, launch bombardment
attacks and provide ships for surface combat missions. I've pretty much given up getting to the US carriers, so
why not kick em in the nuts instead

Let's name this plan 'Turnip Surprise' after the man behind the most cunning plans of all times: Baldrik!

_____________________________

"The problem in defense is how far you can go without destroying from within what you are trying to defend from without"
- Dwight D. Eisenhower

(in reply to Sneer)

Post #: 2661

RE: Enemy Deep Strike Carrier Missions! - 7/6/2006 10:48:34 PM

pauk

Posts: 4162
Joined: 10/21/2001
From: Zagreb,Croatia
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: PzB

Let's name this plan 'Turnip Surprise' after the man behind the most cunning plans of all times: Baldrik!

Then Turnip Suprise is going to be a complete triumph!

Last tests about ground combat (made and posted by Treespider) shows importance of Command and Corps HQ. I hope that you covered well Marians with HQs....

_____________________________

(in reply to PzB74)

Post #: 2662

RE: Enemy Deep Strike Carrier Missions! - 7/6/2006 11:10:24 PM

PzB74

Posts: 5076
Joined: 10/3/2000
From: No(r)way
Status: offline

Aye, count on it

Each island got its own Army HQ and the Combined Fleet HQ is situated at Ulithi

_____________________________

"The problem in defense is how far you can go without destroying from within what you are trying to defend from without"
- Dwight D. Eisenhower

(in reply to pauk)

Post #: 2663

RE: Enemy Deep Strike Carrier Missions! - 7/7/2006 1:31:02 AM

PzB74

Posts: 5076
Joined: 10/3/2000
From: No(r)way
Status: offline

The enemy carriers remain in place while one group heads back to the Marianas!
If I had kept my ac in place there would have been a clash, hide and seek right now.

After testing my crack George fighters I'm encouraged and have ordered reinforcements
from China. Our best interceptors will be shipped to Palau shortly and includes:

154 Jacks
140 Zekes
27 Georges

There are already 81 George and hundreds of crack Zeke Daitais ready for action.
Untrained Zekes and Oscars are escorts for my CAP fighters

Several hundred trained Tojo's will be kept in reserve and upgraded to the Frank.
A nasty surprise for Andy when he thinks my reserves are depleted.

AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 05/27/44

Sub/ASW Attacks

An enemy asw group find the I-38 and sinks here with hundreds of dp's just NW of
Eniwetok.

ASW attack at 74,70

Japanese Ships
SS I-38, hits 28, on fire, heavy damage

Allied Ships
DD Halsey Powell
DD Stephen Potter
DD Porterfield
DD Newcomb
DD Morrison
DD McKee
DD McGowan
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Pipefish gets another kill. Dispatching an asw group to handle her.

Sub attack at 42,52

Japanese Ships
AK Sado Maru, Shell hits 5, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage

Allied Ships
SS Pipefish, hits 4
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Air Combat

Todays air attacks can be divided in two:
Firstly, enemy raids on Tinian? by B-29s and enemy carrier bomber.
Moved most of my Oscars out of here yesterday.

Day Air attack on Tinian , at 62,65

Japanese aircraft
Ki-43-IIa Oscar x 43

Allied aircraft
B-29 Superfortress x 70

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-43-IIa Oscar: 3 destroyed, 21 damaged
E7K2 Alf: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
B-29 Superfortress: 9 damaged - one were recorded as an A2A kill by an Oscar II

Japanese ground losses:
201 casualties reported
Guns lost 2

Airbase hits 17
Airbase supply hits 1
Runway hits 54
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The enemy carrier strike is opposed by a few Oscars and some trained Zekes and George fighters.
While the Oscars gets it the Zeke and George's shoot down several enemy ac! Quite encouraging really.

Day Air attack on Tinian , at 62,65

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zeke x 9
N1K1-J George x 2
Ki-43-IIa Oscar x 13

Allied aircraft
F6F Hellcat x 27
SB2C Helldiver x 51
TBM Avenger x 57

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M5 Zeke: 1 destroyed, 1 damaged
N1K1-J George: 1 damaged
Ki-43-IIa Oscar: 16 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
F6F Hellcat: 2 destroyed, 1 damaged
SB2C Helldiver: 5 destroyed, 4 damaged
TBM Avenger: 4 destroyed, 6 damaged

Japanese ground losses:
63 casualties reported
Guns lost 1

Airbase hits 11
Airbase supply hits 2
Runway hits 42
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Again we sent out Strike Force II - and again we hit an enemy convoy north of Sarmi!
Have hit a lot of enemy transports lately. If this continues it may inflict Andy's
build up of supplies in the area.

Day Air attack on TF at 50,76

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zeke x 8
D4Y Judy x 18

Allied aircraft
P-38J Lightning x 2

Japanese aircraft losses
D4Y Judy: 2 damaged

Allied Ships
AK James M. Goodhue, Bomb hits 3, on fire
AK B. F. Irvine, Bomb hits 1
AK Ralph Barnes, Bomb hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The first attack by the new 'Grace' torpedo bomber!

Day Air attack on TF at 50,76

Japanese aircraft
B7A Grace x 18

Allied aircraft
P-38J Lightning x 1

Japanese aircraft losses
B7A Grace: 3 destroyed, 10 damaged

Allied Ships
TK Panda, Torpedo hits 1
AK Liloa
TK A.C. Rubel
AK Henry Dearborn, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 41,71

Japanese aircraft
Ki-21 Sally x 13

No Japanese losses

Allied Ships
AK George H. Williams, Bomb hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 50,76

Japanese aircraft
B7A Grace x 6

Allied aircraft
P-38J Lightning x 2

Japanese aircraft losses
B7A Grace: 4 damaged

Allied Ships
AK William Dunbar
TK A.C. Rubel
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 50,76

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zeke x 8
D4Y Judy x 10

Allied aircraft
P-38J Lightning x 2

Japanese aircraft losses
D4Y Judy: 1 damaged

Allied Ships
AK Henry Dearborn, on fire, heavy damage
AK Ralph Barnes, Bomb hits 4, on fire, heavy damage
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Enter the Grace!

Pretth looking long range fast torpedo bomber!

Attachment (1)

_____________________________

"The problem in defense is how far you can go without destroying from within what you are trying to defend from without"
- Dwight D. Eisenhower

(in reply to PzB74)

Post #: 2664

RE: Enemy Deep Strike Carrier Missions! - 7/7/2006 2:48:00 AM

BLurking

Posts: 199
Joined: 3/24/2005
From: Frisco, TX
Status: offline

I've recently gotten the Frank, and it's a lifesaver. Don't save it, use it. With a range of 7, you can actually escort out torpedo strikes to a decent range. And it's the only fighter I've found that can get the bombers through a CAP.
You'll still lose 2, 3, even 4-1, but it's not (in my limitted experience) as complete a slaughter as with Zekes and Tonys - which are worthless at this date.

Ditch every Tojo you've got - build more Franks!

For what it's worth.

(in reply to PzB74)

Post #: 2665

RE: Enemy Deep Strike Carrier Missions! - 7/7/2006 8:26:11 AM

Fishbed

Posts: 1822
Joined: 11/21/2005
From: Beijing, China - Paris, France
Status: offline

A big fat CAP over Tinian, possibly mostly LRCAP from other islands, wouldn't do it against the Fortresses?

(in reply to BLurking)

Post #: 2666

RE: Enemy Deep Strike Carrier Missions! - 7/7/2006 4:58:37 PM

Honda

Posts: 953
Joined: 5/5/2004
From: Karlovac, Croatia
Status: offline

I personaly see Frank as a too valuable killer of enemy fighters to send into doomed escort missions. Agains a weak CAP, yes, but against the uberCAP, no way. Oscars will do fine there. Meet the enemy over your ground, deplete his fighter strenght, and then hammer at the CV fleet. Without it, the invasion is a faliure no matter how many troops have disembarked.

_____________________________

AAR of my game vs Raver on my clan forum in croatian language (despite the language differences, no Ravers allowed)

(in reply to Fishbed)

Post #: 2667

RE: Enemy Deep Strike Carrier Missions! - 7/7/2006 5:06:56 PM

BLurking

Posts: 199
Joined: 3/24/2005
From: Frisco, TX
Status: offline

Honda,

Understood, and I would never recommend a straight-on attack vs. the Allied Deathstar.
But at this stage of the game, in a stock scenario, every CAP is a potential uberCAP.
It's awe-inspiring what just 12 Corsairs can do to a Japanese strike.
With Franks, you can break through that.

Nothing can break through the Deathstar CAP

...

(in reply to Honda)

Post #: 2668

RE: Enemy Deep Strike Carrier Missions! - 7/7/2006 5:25:45 PM

Honda

Posts: 953
Joined: 5/5/2004
From: Karlovac, Croatia
Status: offline

As long as we understand each other...

_____________________________

AAR of my game vs Raver on my clan forum in croatian language (despite the language differences, no Ravers allowed)

(in reply to BLurking)

Post #: 2669

RE: Enemy Deep Strike Carrier Missions! - 7/7/2006 8:36:34 PM

PzB74

Posts: 5076
Joined: 10/3/2000
From: No(r)way
Status: offline

US carriers are massing SE of Tinian - this island is the only one overflown by recon ac
two days in a row. Yesterday I airlifted an SNLF unit to Pagan to reinforce the most probable
target. Is it possible that all the attention around Pagan have been a ploy? Tinian got a size
7 AF, perfect for B-29s.

LRCAP isn't as effective, but I will use it if a base is closed. Just 2-3 more days and we'll
start receiving Franks! If the battle drags out we can deploy 400 within a month. Zeke's also
got a max range of 6 hexes, so the Frank will be a specialist interceptor and CAP fighter over
the next year.

The enemy invasion force is moving NW from Eniwetok and the current course will bring them
south of Pagan. Perhaps we'll find some use for our 240mm howitzers after all

With 1390 AP
Tinian is just as well defended as any of the other islands and there are currently 3900 mines
there.

Some 200 fighters are moved in and put on 90% CAP. All leaders checked for 'quality'. It's large
bunch of Oscars, a mix of medium/experienced Zekes and a crack George Daitai too add some firepower.

Moved all Jacks out of China, they actually reached Iwo Jima in one jump

In a couple of days there
will be thousands of fighters ready for a massed defense. We can't allow a single island to fall as this
will mean the undoing of more than the Marianas

Tomorrow we receive our last fleet carrier - ever

I'm also moving the Taiho, Kaga, Shokaku and Zuikaku
to Japan. Lots of subs in the China Sea and I wish to speed up repairs now that most other ships have been
repaired.

Didn't get a screenie today, tomorrow will be even more revealing though!
On Monday I go on vacation and will be offline for 15 days. In the middle of the 'Mother of all battles'

AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 05/28/44

Sub/ASW Attacks

Anti submarine warfare is still a bit too effective. My bombers spot and hit
numerous enemy subs. Surface groups are also lethal... Lost 2 IJN boats today in
the picket line NW of Eniwetok - even though I moved them at cruise speed in
deep water. They subs were the hunted once again.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ASW attack at 71,75

Japanese Ships
SS I-12, hits 29, on fire, heavy damage *sinks*

Allied Ships
DD Halsey Powell
DD Stephen Potter
DD Porterfield
DD Newcomb
DD Morrison
DD McKee
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ASW attack at 70,70

Japanese Ships
SS I-36, hits 15, on fire, heavy damage *sinks*

Allied Ships
DE Duffy
DE Doneff
DE Dempsey
DE Deede
DE Edward C. Daly
DE Carlson
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Air Combat

Day Air attack on Tinian , at 62,65

Japanese aircraft
no flights

Allied aircraft
SB2C Helldiver x 66
TBM Avenger x 86

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-43-IIa Oscar: 4 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
SB2C Helldiver: 4 damaged
TBM Avenger: 6 damaged

Japanese ground losses:
123 casualties reported
Guns lost 1

Airbase hits 9
Airbase supply hits 4
Runway hits 91

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Tinian , at 62,65

Japanese aircraft
no flights

Allied aircraft
F6F Hellcat x 9
SB2C Helldiver x 45
TBM Avenger x 56

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-43-IIa Oscar: 3 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
SB2C Helldiver: 7 damaged
TBM Avenger: 1 destroyed, 6 damaged

Japanese ground losses:
66 casualties reported
Guns lost 2

Airbase hits 7
Airbase supply hits 1
Runway hits 55
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF, near Tarakan at 33,61

Allied aircraft
PB4Y Liberator x 3

No Allied losses

Japanese Ships
AK Hohuku Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
----------------------------------------------------------

_____________________________

"The problem in defense is how far you can go without destroying from within what you are trying to defend from without"
- Dwight D. Eisenhower

(in reply to Honda)

Post #: 2670

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