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House Rules? - 7/4/2006 9:46:47 PM   
SittingDuck

 

Posts: 1166
Joined: 9/1/2002
Status: offline 		So I was just wondering what type of house rules people play with so as not to run roughshod over the AI? Clearly trading is a major abuse of the AI - I think it would be harder to steal candy from a baby.
Post #: 1
RE: House Rules? - 7/4/2006 9:49:57 PM   
henry296

 

Posts: 418
Joined: 5/12/2006
Status: offline 		A couple of rules

1.  One for One trades only.
2.  I decreased my available finances.  Right now I'm about 30% lower than the other teams.
3.  If when inquiring about a player, don't trade a relief pitcher if they will trade that player for any relief pitcher.  If they would only take one or two of my relievers than I can make the trade because they want my top relief pitchers.

(in reply to SittingDuck)
Post #: 2
RE: House Rules? - 7/4/2006 10:08:03 PM   
KG Erwin


Posts: 8981
Joined: 7/25/2000
From: Cross Lanes WV USA
Status: offline 		Hmm -- about the trade issue, I don't see any major issues with it.  If you keep shopping declining players, you'll find that the AI GMs won't offer squat. 

I always shop a player to ALL teams, and this seems to help.  If you target just one gullible team, you can strip them defenseless.  (Of course, in the real majors, this has happened -- look what the Yankees of the past did to the Philadelphia-Kansas City As.)

Also, turning finances OFF seems to reduce the gullibility of the AI.  Based on ratings alone, it's more difficult to find a sucker deal. 

(in reply to henry296)
Post #: 3
RE: House Rules? - 7/4/2006 11:31:46 PM   
torque561

 

Posts: 61
Joined: 10/19/2005
Status: offline 		This seems to true. I find the AI doesn't always give up what I want. I have found a patsy, but he's not always willing to deal.

(in reply to KG Erwin)
Post #: 4
RE: House Rules? - 7/5/2006 12:46:56 AM   
looneyluden

 

Posts: 68
Joined: 6/15/2006
Status: offline 		So far my only house rule is setting my team finances lower than the rest of the teams.

(in reply to SittingDuck)
Post #: 5
RE: House Rules? - 7/5/2006 1:44:32 AM   
Yankeefan

 

Posts: 21
Joined: 5/26/2006
Status: offline 		Why do you set your finances lower?

(in reply to looneyluden)
Post #: 6
RE: House Rules? - 7/5/2006 6:50:44 AM   
looneyluden

 

Posts: 68
Joined: 6/15/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Yankeefan

Why do you set your finances lower?


I set mine lower because I like to be the underdog in the league. For whatever reason, that adds to my fun factor in these types of games.

(in reply to Yankeefan)
Post #: 7
RE: House Rules? - 7/6/2006 3:07:25 AM   
henry296

 

Posts: 418
Joined: 5/12/2006
Status: offline 		I set finances lower because at the beginning of the career I had plenty of money to spend on free agents.  It also makes decisions to re-sign players a more difficult as the league progresses.  At this point, I can't compete for very many top level free agents.

I've still been very successful having won 3 straight World Series before losing the NL Pennant by two games after choking in September.

(in reply to looneyluden)
Post #: 8
RE: House Rules? - 7/6/2006 3:21:38 AM   
verizon32

 

Posts: 168
Joined: 5/23/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: henry296

I've still been very successful having won 3 straight World Series before losing the NL Pennant by two games after choking in September.


Do you feel like this game is too easy to win over the Ai teams?

I hope thats not the case.

(in reply to henry296)
Post #: 9
RE: House Rules? - 7/6/2006 4:01:28 AM   
henry296

 

Posts: 418
Joined: 5/12/2006
Status: offline 		I found that early on, I was able to make some suspicious trades before Shaun decreased the value of relief pitching.  I also got some good players in the draft that has also been tweaked.  My team is getting older so it will be interesting to see if I can stay on top.

(in reply to verizon32)
Post #: 10
RE: House Rules? - 7/6/2006 4:50:28 AM   
PanzersEast


Posts: 96
Joined: 7/17/2005
Status: offline 		Very interesting topic for a new Pure Simmer.... I am interested to see how each person sets their own rules and may adopt them from here and there..... no better way to jump in then on the experience of veterans

_____________________________

But courage which goes against military expediency is stupidity, or, if it is insisted upon by a commander, irresponsibility. - Rommel

(in reply to SittingDuck)
Post #: 11
RE: House Rules? - 7/6/2006 4:53:24 AM   
verizon32

 

Posts: 168
Joined: 5/23/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: PanzersEast

Very interesting topic for a new Pure Simmer.... I am interested to see how each person sets their own rules and may adopt them from here and there..... no better way to jump in then on the experience of veterans


Hopefully after Shaun tweaks Puresim some more, we won't need any more house rules.

(in reply to PanzersEast)
Post #: 12
RE: House Rules? - 7/6/2006 5:46:47 AM   
SittingDuck

 

Posts: 1166
Joined: 9/1/2002
Status: offline 		1) I'd like to see the trade value of relief pitching dropped even further

2) More, I'd like some revealed lines in the XML that let us tweak trade values for various positions and other things.  Too much to choose from, but it would be nice if we had some ability, if even just a bit, to tweak the AI's trade logic.

(in reply to verizon32)
Post #: 13
RE: House Rules? - 7/6/2006 5:47:43 AM   
SittingDuck

 

Posts: 1166
Joined: 9/1/2002
Status: offline 		At this stage, I am considering making a rule for myself that I have to give away two top relievers for either a starter or position player.

(in reply to SittingDuck)
Post #: 14
RE: House Rules? - 7/8/2006 1:03:53 AM   
SittingDuck

 

Posts: 1166
Joined: 9/1/2002
Status: offline 		So a house rule I instituted for my new assn and will for any assn I run:

No trading in the first season until late June.

At that point, stats will exist for several players that the AI might jump on in April simply based on ratings.



(in reply to SittingDuck)
Post #: 15
RE: House Rules? - 7/8/2006 1:30:35 AM   
KG Erwin


Posts: 8981
Joined: 7/25/2000
From: Cross Lanes WV USA
Status: offline 		On the issue of trades,  I listed all that I pulled off in my Golden Age historical association (see the relevant "Locker" thread).   In none of those cases did I feel that I took advantage of the AI GMs. 

I traded off some proven veterans for some promising youngsters, and in one or two cases, the other team got the better end of the deal.   I was ruthless in doing this,  shedding nearly every player that was on the downside of their potential curve.

I'm still thinking that turning finances OFF makes all the difference.  The financial model is an area that definitely needs some tweaking.   

(in reply to SittingDuck)
Post #: 16
RE: House Rules? - 7/8/2006 1:37:14 AM   
SittingDuck

 

Posts: 1166
Joined: 9/1/2002
Status: offline 		I'm gonna have to take you up on that 'finances off' thing.  I'll have to give it a whirl.

So as you do, I have decided when I trade to really look at it from the other team's standpoint and make sure it is 'fair' or equitable for them.  I am willing to give away two decent or one good/one decent player for another player.   Here's another thing I am considering when offering a trade: give them the type of player they are looking for.  This is often listed in the trade screen.


(in reply to KG Erwin)
Post #: 17
RE: House Rules? - 7/8/2006 2:22:19 AM   
KG Erwin


Posts: 8981
Joined: 7/25/2000
From: Cross Lanes WV USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SittingDuck

I'm gonna have to take you up on that 'finances off' thing.  I'll have to give it a whirl.

So as you do, I have decided when I trade to really look at it from the other team's standpoint and make sure it is 'fair' or equitable for them.  I am willing to give away two decent or one good/one decent player for another player.   Here's another thing I am considering when offering a trade: give them the type of player they are looking for.  This is often listed in the trade screen.




Yeah, you do that, man. Heck, I made a couple of deals with my top competitors, and so far, it's worked out well.

If I can stick with this historical association, I hope to fill some of my needs with the upcoming 1947 amateur draft -- jeez, think of the rookie crop for that year. What's more, in four more years a couple of promising kids -- Mickey Mantle and Willie Mays -- will be available. For this particular era, the talent pool is just incredible.

As for turning off finances, I could devote a new thread to that, and I just might.

(in reply to SittingDuck)
Post #: 18
RE: House Rules? - 7/8/2006 2:27:45 AM   
Tanaka


Posts: 4378
Joined: 4/8/2003
From: USA
Status: offline 		Hey guys Id be interested in getting your opinions about the trades I made in my current association in relation to the discussions here:

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=1187035

_____________________________


(in reply to KG Erwin)
Post #: 19
RE: House Rules? - 7/8/2006 2:46:23 AM   
SittingDuck

 

Posts: 1166
Joined: 9/1/2002
Status: offline 		Lemme take a looksie..

(in reply to Tanaka)
Post #: 20
RE: House Rules? - 7/8/2006 2:48:08 AM   
SittingDuck

 

Posts: 1166
Joined: 9/1/2002
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: KG Erwin

As for turning off finances, I could devote a new thread to that, and I just might.



Well, I would sure be interested in reading some pro/cons of the whole thing.

(in reply to KG Erwin)
Post #: 21
RE: House Rules? - 7/8/2006 3:41:56 AM   
waltwa

 

Posts: 67
Joined: 8/20/2005
Status: offline 		the trading A1 is pretty weak. i was offered soriano and got him for not very much and then was offered mark prior for a reliever.

what's the answer? some games have trading A1's that are a little better but they all have weaknesses. the answer is to make this game multiplayer friendly. ultimately you have to trade vs. humans in order to get some real competition. now i know someone will say you can rip off humans just as easily. that is true but when that happens i don't worry about it and also many online leagues have trade commissions that will not allow obviously unfair trades.

realistically it is probably better to figure out some really good house rules before someone will create a really good trading A1

(in reply to SittingDuck)
Post #: 22
RE: House Rules? - 7/8/2006 4:33:07 AM   
SittingDuck

 

Posts: 1166
Joined: 9/1/2002
Status: offline 		I agree in that house rules will at least make the game more enjoyable and challenging.  That's why I would like to start pooling people's ideas for house rules in the hopes that everyone can personally adopt some ideas for themselves.  Hopefully this can get us further along while Shaun works on the trade AI.

(in reply to waltwa)
Post #: 23
RE: House Rules? - 7/8/2006 4:18:09 PM   
waltwa

 

Posts: 67
Joined: 8/20/2005
Status: offline 		when i said the answer was too make the game multiplayer friendly i meant that was A PARTIAL answer to the problem of a weak trading A1. the complete answer may be decades. it just doesn't seem like an easy problem to overcome so the short term answer may have to be multiplayer and/or house rules. the trading A1 in puresim can surely be improved but to get it to the level of 2 human players is something that i have not seen done in any baseball sim.

there are scenarios when barry bonds at his peak may be a good trade for an average prospect. not many but it is possible and for a computer to see these types of possibilities just is not something that is right around the corner.

i have been a solo player for a long,long time and only over the last 2-3 years have started playing multiplayer. i think multiplayer is a real key to making a game financially successful for the developer. i was very surprised when i started to get more involved with puresim to see that online leagues were non-existent. i don't think the game in its present form is a multiplayer friendly game. as a strict business decision that is an area that i would head into wholeheartedly. if you have a chance go to the ootp forums and check out the online league section. you will see 100's of online leagues of every type. that's 100's of people who have to buy the game to play as most leagues require ownership of the game.

(in reply to SittingDuck)
Post #: 24
RE: House Rules? - 7/11/2006 11:18:32 PM   
XCom


Posts: 193
Joined: 6/6/2006
Status: offline 		I think you will start to see online leagues sprout up as people become more familiar with the new version of Puresim and become a little tired of playing against AI.  The game is actually becoming more and more friendly to multiplayer online leagues.  I think Shaun sees this and the business opportunity available...we just need some leagues to start up to get things going.

As I've said in the past, I'm in the process of converting my online FPS BBPro98 league over to Puresim.  We will probably start up late in the summer using Puresim.  I already have many owners staying on after the switch-over, but there will be a few open teams.  So, if anyone is interested in getting into an online multiplayer league and can wait a few months before the simming starts up, PM me.  The league will maintain the current rosters from our BBPro league so the teams will already be intact.  I'm sure there will be some growing pains, but I'm excited about the opportunity that Puresim is providing!

(in reply to waltwa)
Post #: 25
RE: House Rules? - 7/12/2006 7:11:40 AM   
BleacherBum

 

Posts: 56
Joined: 8/21/2005
Status: offline 		Rules I've used...

1) Reduce franchise points of my team, at least 20% less than lowest CPU team
2) In the initial draft, I set caps on the number of 5 yr, 4 yr, 3 yr contracts so that my team suffers turnover in the first few seasons just like the CPU teams
3) Players can only play positions they know (boldfaced on defense chart).  Minor league players can learn a 2nd position once in their career, but not one that is in red.  Also has to be an easier position on the defensive spectrum.
4) Check the CPU rosters and see if they are holding onto worthless aging vets in the minors.  If so, cut some of the dead weight from the CPU teams.
5) Only trade when offers are presented.  An offer can be extended to a 2 for 2, but no more.  Also limit # of trades in a season.
6) Set a cap on salaries you can pay bench players - avoids hoarding of talent.
7) Require players of a certain age or experience to move to your major league roster or be released - again, avoid hoarding talent.




(in reply to XCom)
Post #: 26
RE: House Rules? - 7/12/2006 1:37:02 PM   
SittingDuck

 

Posts: 1166
Joined: 9/1/2002
Status: offline 		Those are some good rules - some being variants of which I've used in the past and had forgotten.  Thanks.

(in reply to BleacherBum)
Post #: 27
RE: House Rules? - 7/12/2006 3:44:17 PM   
Abev

 

Posts: 228
Joined: 8/11/2005
Status: offline 		I never got how ppl thought PS is too easy? I set up all of my assn's with 2 leagues, 3 divs each, 4 teams in each (24 team total) and I set my team as the lowest payroll, and put 3 other high (top 10%) payroll teams in my div. No house rules. No worries about the trading AI.

IMO the challenge of PS is to win with less money than everyone else, while getting the most out of lower salary players.  Isn't that what a GM is supposed to do?

(in reply to SittingDuck)
Post #: 28
RE: House Rules? - 7/12/2006 9:01:21 PM   
Claymore Cut


Posts: 270
Joined: 5/16/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Abev

I never got how ppl thought PS is too easy? I set up all of my assn's with 2 leagues, 3 divs each, 4 teams in each (24 team total) and I set my team as the lowest payroll, and put 3 other high (top 10%) payroll teams in my div. No house rules. No worries about the trading AI.

IMO the challenge of PS is to win with less money than everyone else, while getting the most out of lower salary players. Isn't that what a GM is supposed to do?


The only problem that crops up is abusing the trade AI, which is true of any of these games.

(in reply to Abev)
Post #: 29
RE: House Rules? - 7/12/2006 10:34:02 PM   
BleacherBum

 

Posts: 56
Joined: 8/21/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Claymore Cut
The only problem that crops up is abusing the trade AI, which is true of any of these games.

Not true. For instance, in my experience with PS over the years, I've seen high numbers of questionable CPU Roster decisions, especially as careers progress. Also, the CPU has struggled developing the talent that it drafts, especially pitchers. These types of things lead to inferior competition. OOTP has similar issues that degrade the competition over time.

Trading gets a lot of attention because its an easy way to fleece the CPU teams. But even if you eliminate trading, you'll find that as your careers progress its easy to dominate. Also, other flaws take more effort to discover. Its easy to spot bad trades on the wire, especially when you are on the other side. Take some time and look at the CPU teams' lineups and rotations throughout the season, especially toward the end of the year. Investigate how they manage their minor league talent. Check on the free agent signings they make - are they filling the right needs, and spending wisely?

To be fair, I have not played PS 2007 enough to say whether these specific AI flaws persist in the game. I'll be pleasantly surprised if they don't. More later, as I find time to progress with a 2007 career.

(in reply to Claymore Cut)
Post #: 30
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