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japanese radar again - 7/11/2006 5:45:19 PM   
Sneer


Posts: 2654
Joined: 10/29/2003
Status: offline 		i know that early japanese radar type doesn't work
question is which type works ?
if any ?

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RE: japanese radar again - 7/11/2006 5:52:08 PM   
pauk


Posts: 4162
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From: Zagreb,Croatia
Status: offline 		type 13 i think... the Type 13, which was an air-search radar, is defined in the game as a surface-search radar..

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RE: japanese radar again - 7/11/2006 5:59:24 PM   
Speedysteve

 

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Status: offline 		Correct. My god Pauk you do know something then

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RE: japanese radar again - 7/11/2006 6:26:41 PM   
Big B

 

Posts: 4870
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From: Old Los Angeles pre-1960
Status: offline 		That was one of the questions I asked a week or two ago -

But more to the point, I didn't think the game distinguished between air search and surface search radars - only surface vs airborne radars (for use in aircraft)?

B
quote:

ORIGINAL: pauk

type 13 i think... the Type 13, which was an air-search radar, is defined in the game as a surface-search radar..


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RE: japanese radar again - 7/11/2006 6:48:13 PM   
Sneer


Posts: 2654
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Status: offline 		so type 13 has problems and 21 and 22 are ok ?

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RE: japanese radar again - 7/11/2006 6:56:58 PM   
Speedysteve

 

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Status: offline 		Yes AFAIK

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RE: japanese radar again - 7/11/2006 7:01:07 PM   
pauk


Posts: 4162
Joined: 10/21/2001
From: Zagreb,Croatia
Status: offline 		that is how i see things...

don't know anything about what B said...

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RE: japanese radar again - 7/11/2006 7:08:12 PM   
Big B

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: pauk

that is how i see things...

don't know anything about what B said...

I think the Database only defines radars as "surface radar" (such as SCR270 and XCAM) and "aircraft radar".. which will be mounted in aircraft, and thereby are "airborne radar".

B


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RE: japanese radar again - 7/11/2006 7:12:05 PM   
pauk


Posts: 4162
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From: Zagreb,Croatia
Status: offline 		hmm.... i know that air radars helps against air raids, allowing early warning and thus more planes on CAP - at least i have been told so....

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RE: japanese radar again - 7/11/2006 9:16:54 PM   
Honda


Posts: 953
Joined: 5/5/2004
From: Karlovac, Croatia
Status: offline 		Yeah, and when Jap BFs get their sound detectors "upgraded" to Type13s, Jap bases get less CAP then before, so more planes left to be bombed to smitherine

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RE: japanese radar again - 7/13/2006 4:02:18 AM   
Big B

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: pauk

type 13 i think... the Type 13, which was an air-search radar, is defined in the game as a surface-search radar..

Ok, had time to look this up. There is nothing wrong with Japanese Type 13 RADAR.
It is defined as surface radar - but virtually ALL radar is surface radar in the game - except those designated as aircraft radar...which is only meant to be carried aboard aircraft.

B




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Big B -- 7/13/2006 4:05:53 AM >

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RE: japanese radar again - 7/13/2006 4:19:54 AM   
Brady


Posts: 10701
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From: Oregon,USA
Status: offline 		My understanding is that NO aircraft cary radar in game that works as intended, for surface search, that is for use in detecting ships/subs.

.........

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RE: japanese radar again - 7/13/2006 4:24:36 AM   
Big B

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Brady

My understanding is that NO aircraft cary radar in game that works as intended, for surface search, that is for use in detecting ships/subs.

.........

Well, all I can tell you is that again, every RADAR that is an air-search radar (like SCR270 or XCAM, or even SC and SJ) is defined as surface radar.

Maybe NONE of them work - but they are all the same.

EDIT: So I suspect that the surface radar classification works as an air search radar for any unit so equiped. There is definately nothing different between Allied and Japanese radars on this matter.

B

< Message edited by Big B -- 7/13/2006 4:38:52 AM >

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Post #: 13
RE: japanese radar again - 7/13/2006 5:01:18 AM   
stonefoot


Posts: 32
Joined: 2/7/2004
Status: offline 		My understanding is that the problem with the Type 13 is that they forgot to give it a penetration factor like the other radars for detecting aircraft. Thats why when a Jap BF upgrades from sound detectors to radar they get worse at raid detection since the sound detectors have a better penetration rating.

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RE: japanese radar again - 7/13/2006 5:02:30 AM   
Mynok


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Radar (no matter what kind) that have no penetration value will not search for aircraft.

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RE: japanese radar again - 7/13/2006 5:07:26 AM   
Big B

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: stonefoot

My understanding is that the problem with the Type 13 is that they forgot to give it a penetration factor like the other radars for detecting aircraft. Thats why when a Jap BF upgrades from sound detectors to radar they get worse at raid detection since the sound detectors have a better penetration rating.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Mynok


Radar (no matter what kind) that have no penetration value will not search for aircraft.



Well there you may well be correct - because a quick check revealed no penetration value for Japanes RADAR

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RE: japanese radar again - 7/13/2006 5:34:04 AM   
Big B

 

Posts: 4870
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From: Old Los Angeles pre-1960
Status: offline 		Well your pleas have not fallen on deaf ears. In the soon to be posted "B Mod" all Japanese RADAR problems will be addressed

EDIT: Ok, which Japanese RADARS are supposed to be Air Search RADAR, and which, if any, are supposed to be surface search only RADAR - such as American SC RADAR?

Well, it looks like the only RADAR we are talking about here is Type 13, so....


B

< Message edited by Big B -- 7/13/2006 6:03:50 AM >

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RE: japanese radar again - 7/13/2006 6:28:54 AM   
Brady


Posts: 10701
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From: Oregon,USA
Status: offline 		 
Referance:


http://www.combinedfleet.com/radar.htm

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RE: japanese radar again - 7/13/2006 7:14:57 AM   
FeurerKrieg


Posts: 3397
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From: Denver, CO
Status: offline 		Penetration for radar is simply a flag. 0 means it detects surface units 500 means it detects air units.
The aircraft/surface classification only refers to where the radar is mounted. (Surface is on ships and LCU, air is aircraft).

There was a fix posted from michael that would update the database but it of course does not work on games in progress.



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RE: japanese radar again - 7/13/2006 12:04:01 PM   
castor troy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Feurer Krieg

Penetration for radar is simply a flag. 0 means it detects surface units 500 means it detects air units.
The aircraft/surface classification only refers to where the radar is mounted. (Surface is on ships and LCU, air is aircraft).

There was a fix posted from michael that would update the database but it of course does not work on games in progress.




Why is it so hard to update ongoing games? I just wonder.

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Post #: 20
RE: japanese radar again - 7/13/2006 12:40:22 PM   
pauk


Posts: 4162
Joined: 10/21/2001
From: Zagreb,Croatia
Status: offline 		i don't have problem with ongoing games - i can live with that(although i'm not pleased). But would like to see jap radar fixed in new patch. Somehow, i know this wouldn't be fixed - although i don't know why..... it doesn't looks like big deal...

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RE: japanese radar again - 7/13/2006 1:21:05 PM   
michaelm75au


Posts: 13500
Joined: 5/5/2001
From: Melbourne, Australia
Status: offline 		Sometime back around patch 1.4(?), the penetration value for the Type 13 got zero'ed. It was there in the original release (1.0/1.21) but no-one seemed to notice that it got cleared until 1.5(?). [And again, I think it slipped pass in the last 1.6 database changes.]
Currently, I don't believe that any database fixes are planned. Work is concentrated on fixing code bugs.
If you want to have the radar fixed, either use my little program to update the scenarios #1-16 or duplicate the scenario in question to another slot and update the 'penetration' value to 500 for device 139.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Feurer Krieg

Penetration for radar is simply a flag. 0 means it detects surface units 500 means it detects air units.
The aircraft/surface classification only refers to where the radar is mounted. (Surface is on ships and LCU, air is aircraft).

There was a fix posted from michael that would update the database but it of course does not work on games in progress.





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Post #: 22
RE: japanese radar again - 7/13/2006 1:23:16 PM   
Sneer


Posts: 2654
Joined: 10/29/2003
Status: offline 		i remember you writing about some fixing utility
question is if there is any japanese radar working ?


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Post #: 23
RE: japanese radar again - 7/13/2006 1:45:42 PM   
michaelm75au


Posts: 13500
Joined: 5/5/2001
From: Melbourne, Australia
Status: offline 		As far as I know, the Japanese Type 13 (in official scenario) is the only radar that definitely does not work for air-search.

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RE: japanese radar again - 7/13/2006 2:12:51 PM   
Charles2222


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quote:

ORIGINAL: michaelm

Sometime back around patch 1.4(?), the penetration value for the Type 13 got zero'ed. It was there in the original release (1.0/1.21) but no-one seemed to notice that it got cleared until 1.5(?). [And again, I think it slipped pass in the last 1.6 database changes.]
Currently, I don't believe that any database fixes are planned. Work is concentrated on fixing code bugs.
If you want to have the radar fixed, either use my little program to update the scenarios #1-16 or duplicate the scenario in question to another slot and update the 'penetration' value to 500 for device 139.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Feurer Krieg

Penetration for radar is simply a flag. 0 means it detects surface units 500 means it detects air units.
The aircraft/surface classification only refers to where the radar is mounted. (Surface is on ships and LCU, air is aircraft).

There was a fix posted from michael that would update the database but it of course does not work on games in progress.






If I understand correctly, since there is unlikely to be a database change in the foreseeable future, and there is likely to be 1-2 patches by such time, doesn't that mean that until the database is changed that if you patched that data yourself, as I did, that it will stay that way? If, in the future, there should be a database change, and that particular bit of data is there, IOW the entire database would be on the patch not just the changes, that would necessitate re-applying the patch wouldn't it (assuming the fix still left the value at zero)? Do Matrix patches for DB's just include the changes or the whole thing? Thanks.

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Post #: 25
RE: japanese radar again - 7/13/2006 2:20:44 PM   
michaelm75au


Posts: 13500
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From: Melbourne, Australia
Status: offline 		The DB changes generally are total file replacement. Don;t think I have ever seen a case of partial/incremental changes in their patches.

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RE: japanese radar again - 7/13/2006 3:14:17 PM   
Sneer


Posts: 2654
Joined: 10/29/2003
Status: offline 		another question about radar
site
http://www.combinedfleet.com/radar.htm
shows radars were much widely used than it is in game
even japanese submarines were fitted with them




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RE: japanese radar again - 7/13/2006 3:28:30 PM   
Charles2222


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quote:

ORIGINAL: michaelm

The DB changes generally are total file replacement. Don;t think I have ever seen a case of partial/incremental changes in their patches.


What a bummer, then we have to worry each time a db change is made. Well, they could just make an incremental change and end up conceivably with a whole different value (like the entire piece out) and still be a problem anyway. If I had thought it out for a little while longer I would have reached the conclusion that no matter which way you do it, db changes are something to worry about as far as IJN radar goes.

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Post #: 28
RE: japanese radar again - 7/13/2006 5:19:17 PM   
Big B

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Feurer Krieg

Penetration for radar is simply a flag. 0 means it detects surface units 500 means it detects air units.
The aircraft/surface classification only refers to where the radar is mounted. (Surface is on ships and LCU, air is aircraft).



Ok, that makes perfect sense - and explains what is wrong with Type 13 RADAR

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Post #: 29
RE: japanese radar again - 7/13/2006 5:35:18 PM   
Honda


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From: Karlovac, Croatia
Status: offline 		I just remembered, since the conversation is about the non-functioning Jap equpiment, how nice it would be if Jap recon planes turned into kamikaze could actualy have a chance of hiting something. With a max load of 0, they do no damage whatsoever. Maybe there should be a code for kamikaze that would add 500 to max load for the purposes of the plane turned into a kamikaze. That would simulate the force of a fuel laden plane hitting a ship without any bombs attached to it. If a plane should acctualy have a max load value it would just add it the base 500 that should be given to any kamikaze.
And will Okhas ever hit anything?

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