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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> Battlefront >> Can we get editor screenies, more info?

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Can we get editor screenies, more info? - 7/8/2006 7:15:49 PM

geozero

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Okay, so far I can see the game scale is 1 hex = 1 km, 250x250 hex max map size, 2 turns per day (12 hour turns)...

Can we get screenshots of the editor, and perhaps more info on the types of units that can be modeled, is this TOE based (like TOAW), how is the OOB created within the editor, what map utilities are included in the editor, are the graphics modable, etc.

Will the system allow for pre or post World War 2 era? I'm specifically asking as I have interest in seeing some Manchurian/Japanese, Spanish Civil War, and Korea scenarios done at this scale.

Thanks...

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RE: Can we get editor screenies, more info? - 7/8/2006 8:24:10 PM

benpark

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From the screens, it appears that the game uses an editor similar to the DB games. Look here for info:

http://ssg.com.au/forums/viewforum.php?f=3&sid=1260be1a17e43440cd7c313675ab4f5f

I've labored on a few never completed scenarios. The AI always stalled me out. I finally realized that I just enjoyed making the maps. Which is by hand, no "tiles".

The DB editor is very time consuming, and not particularly easy. But the DB scenario editor allows any situation that you can think of(within the games system). You just need to be able to draw the map, do the OOB research, and set up the AI.

< Message edited by benpark -- 7/8/2006 8:25:41 PM >

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RE: Can we get editor screenies, more info? - 7/8/2006 8:33:28 PM

geozero

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benpark

Thanks for the link. Those threads are 3+ years old. Some of the links inside them are no longer good. THere were not that many screenshots of the editor in use.

Is Battlefront using the same engine and editor?

really would be nice to see a lot more posted here.

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Post #: 3

RE: Can we get editor screenies, more info? - 7/8/2006 9:28:54 PM

JSS

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quote:

ORIGINAL: geozero

...Is Battlefront using the same engine and editor?

The game engine has been completely written from the beginning. There are some familiar looking interfaces as the graphical look is in many ways is similar to BII (same programmer & same artist developing game).

The game play is quite different from BII in many, many ways. Best to read Gregor's articles on this.

JSS

(in reply to geozero)

Post #: 4

RE: Can we get editor screenies, more info? - 7/8/2006 9:41:27 PM

JSS

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quote:

ORIGINAL: geozero

...Will the system allow for pre or post World War 2 era? I'm specifically asking as I have interest in seeing some Manchurian/Japanese, Spanish Civil War, and Korea scenarios done at this scale.

As Gregor noted the editor allows creation of any battle you have the imagination to build (battles included provide graphics for US, UK, Germany, Italy, Soviet Union, and Japan IIRC). You would only have to create your own map and OOB.

...With a little imagination DB could handle campaigns up Korea or perhaps Middle East 56... to move away from WW2 you simply had to realize what movement and combat settings were appropriate for the era of the battle AND create your own graphics. My take so far is that Battlefront will allow the same level of flexibility.

(in reply to geozero)

Post #: 5

RE: Can we get editor screenies, more info? - 7/9/2006 2:57:30 AM

Rob Gjessing

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Infact there are some significant changes in BF (from the DBWWII system) that will allow and support a wider range of scenarios. My personal feeling is that BF would be more suited to some of the more modern battles then DBWWII was.

(in reply to JSS)

Post #: 6

RE: Can we get editor screenies, more info? - 7/9/2006 5:28:31 AM

geozero

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rob Gjessing

Infact there are some significant changes in BF (from the DBWWII system) that will allow and support a wider range of scenarios.� My personal feeling is that BF would be more suited to some of the more modern battles then DBWWII was.

This is excellent news.

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Post #: 7

RE: Can we get editor screenies, more info? - 7/10/2006 4:08:37 AM

Gregor_SSG

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quote:

ORIGINAL: geozero

Okay, so far I can see the game scale is 1 hex = 1 km, 250x250 hex max map size, 2 turns per day (12 hour turns)...

Can we get screenshots of the editor, and perhaps more info on the types of units that can be modeled, is this TOE based (like TOAW), how is the OOB created within the editor, what map utilities are included in the editor, are the graphics modable, etc.

Will the system allow for pre or post World War 2 era? I'm specifically asking as I have interest in seeing some Manchurian/Japanese, Spanish Civil War, and Korea scenarios done at this scale.

Thanks...

The editor is a development of the Decisive Battles editor, but it will work in much the same way. I'm pretty sure that screenshots from the editor would be bottom of most people's request list for game info, so I'm not sure if I want to put them into the Designer Notes. Many of the game testers also put in a lot of work on the scenario creation front, so you can always chat to them to get more info.

I can say that all of the pre and post WWII conflicts that you mention can be easily modelled in the system.

Gregor

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Post #: 8

RE: Can we get editor screenies, more info? - 7/10/2006 5:26:33 AM

geozero

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Gregor,

Thanks. I do not own any of the DB games, nor am I familiar with their editor. Hence my request for screenshots. Surely this can't be that difficult to do. It would go a long way
for designers like myself that would like to see what the editor has so that we can contribute.

I hope that is not asking too much...but if it is...

_____________________________

JUST SAY NO... To Hideous Graphics.

(in reply to Gregor_SSG)

Post #: 9

RE: Can we get editor screenies, more info? - 7/10/2006 5:48:18 AM

rickier65

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Gregor_SSG

quote:

ORIGINAL: geozero

Okay, so far I can see the game scale is 1 hex = 1 km, 250x250 hex max map size, 2 turns per day (12 hour turns)...

Can we get screenshots of the editor, and perhaps more info on the types of units that can be modeled, is this TOE based (like TOAW), how is the OOB created within the editor, what map utilities are included in the editor, are the graphics modable, etc.

Will the system allow for pre or post World War 2 era? I'm specifically asking as I have interest in seeing some Manchurian/Japanese, Spanish Civil War, and Korea scenarios done at this scale.

Thanks...

The editor is a development of the Decisive Battles editor, but it will work in much the same way. I'm pretty sure that screenshots from the editor would be bottom of most people's request list for game info, so I'm not sure if I want to put them into the Designer Notes. Many of the game testers also put in a lot of work on the scenario creation front, so you can always chat to them to get more info.

I can say that all of the pre and post WWII conflicts that you mention can be easily modelled in the system.

Gregor

Gregor,

I'm one of those that had a pretty hard time with the DB Scenario editor. I folowed the threads, but things just never clicked. (I started with Korsun Pocket, then with BiN - I had actually hoped that the editor would be easier to use in BiN, but for me at least, it got harder to use). I decided to forego getting BII since I understood that the mechanics of using the editor didn't get any easier.

So, I have to say, I'm a little disappointed to hear that the editor for Battlefront is pretty much the same. I rember making a number of scenarios for the original Battlefront (using the WarPaint and WarPlan utilities I think they were called).

Between having to use a 3rd party paint program to make the map, and the lack of a good manual for the editor, sceanrio creation pretty much didn't materialize.

Not that I'm complaining.

Rick

(in reply to Gregor_SSG)

Post #: 10

RE: Can we get editor screenies, more info? - 7/10/2006 6:13:47 AM

JSS

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rick

Gregor,

I'm one of those that had a pretty hard time with the DB Scenario editor. I folowed the threads, but things just never clicked. (I started with Korsun Pocket, then with BiN - I had actually hoped that the editor would be easier to use in BiN, but for me at least, it got harder to use). I decided to forego getting BII since I understood that the mechanics of using the editor didn't get any easier.

So, I have to say, I'm a little disappointed to hear that the editor for Battlefront is pretty much the same. I rember making a number of scenarios for the original Battlefront (using the WarPaint and WarPlan utilities I think they were called).

Between having to use a 3rd party paint program to make the map, and the lack of a good manual for the editor, sceanrio creation pretty much didn't materialize.

Not that I'm complaining.

Rick

Rick,

Don't recall hearing about the start up problems you were having. If you describe the difficulty you're having on the SSG scenario forum there's a great chance someone can walk you thru the problem.

Certainly my first effort at KP editing was far from successful (KP editor was not easy to use). BiN editor interface is much more inituitive and user friendly. Its a program that's easy to use once you have some understanding of it (I'd compare using it to using Excel, very powerful & easy to use once you get the process down).

BiN & BII editor manuals are pretty complete (AI orders development is only part that isn't fully described). EDIT: BII editor manual does describe AI orders entry fields very well... you have to understand game very well to make AI move & fight properly).

JSS

< Message edited by JSS -- 7/10/2006 6:24:04 AM >

(in reply to rickier65)

Post #: 11

RE: Can we get editor screenies, more info? - 7/10/2006 11:39:00 AM

Rob Gjessing

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There are some screen shots of the KP editor here: http://www.ssg.com.au/Run5/editor_tutorial/KP/Overview.htm

Note that there have been Battles in Normandy, Battles in Italy and now Battlefront. So whilst I provide that link to the KP editor as a guide to give you an idea of what the editor looks like - note that there are some changes since the original KP release.

I couldnt agree with JSS's words more - and he uses a good example. The Editor isnt hard to use at all - infact I think its quite easy to use. His example of using Excel is perfect. Give Excel to someone to use who hasnt used a spreadsheet before and they are bound to be confused. But once you have created your first spreadsheet and chart and have the basics down its really quite simple.

There is a wealth of experiance over at the SSG/Run5 forums and there is even a Scenario Design forum specifically set up for the purposes of assisting any one new to the editor. Its unfortunate that most people are put off by thinking the editor is complex rather then taking the step forward and being open to explore and learn it.

The hardest thing about creating the scenario in my opinion is the research and that has nothing do to with the use of the editor. The second hardest thing is deciding which battle you want create (given there are so many asking to be made.. Im working on - For Battlefront - Bastogne (thanks to JSS who started it off for me), Gallipoli (almost complete) and then I would like to start on Gaudalcanal.

One of the other stumbling points for potential scenario designers is that they may not have the graphical skills to make the maps look as good as the SSG maps = this problem is easily overcome by simply asking any of the existing Run5 Map makers to either help them or to make the map for them. I know Brubaker - who made the simply stunning map for his Battles in Italy scenario "Moscow" has been helping and making maps for other scenario designers, and I also have made maps for people also (Pete_au's Operation Sealion - which he is working on at the moment being the most recent one I have done).

I guess what I am saying is that there is a wealth of people who are willing to assist people in the use of the editor and helping them make scenarios - infact there is a whole community over at Run5/SSG. But - as JSS says.. take the time to become accustomed with the editor and rather then throwing a hissy fit and shutting it all down when you cant work out how to do something - take the alternative and post a question on the Scenario Design Forums (http://ssg.com.au/forums/viewforum.php?f=3) and ask for some help or coaching and you will be rewarded for your efforts.

Nothing better then making a scenario which others download play and enjoy. Ok probably a few things better.. :)

(in reply to JSS)

Post #: 12

RE: Can we get editor screenies, more info? - 7/10/2006 6:50:23 PM

geozero

Posts: 1886
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From: Southern California, U.S.A.
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Rob,

Thanks for the link. It does not look that difficult, based on the step by step details. Of course, without the program I can't actually know this once I do it...

There is little in the way of explaining how to actually design a map though. The example uses existing map.

I am mostly a map guy... that's why I ask about this. I do not see any explanation or tutorial on making a map from scratch.

_____________________________

JUST SAY NO... To Hideous Graphics.

(in reply to Rob Gjessing)

Post #: 13

RE: Can we get editor screenies, more info? - 7/11/2006 2:06:19 AM

Rob Gjessing

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From: Sydney Australia
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Here is a direct link to a thread I created for KP relating to making a map:

http://ssg.com.au/forums/viewtopic.php?t=55

Here is the general link to the scenario design forums over at Run5 which has quite a few helpful links etc..

http://ssg.com.au/forums/viewforum.php?f=3

(in reply to geozero)

Post #: 14

RE: Can we get editor screenies, more info? - 7/11/2006 2:17:34 AM

geozero

Posts: 1886
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From: Southern California, U.S.A.
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rob Gjessing

Here is a direct link to a thread I created for KP relating to making a map:

http://ssg.com.au/forums/viewtopic.php?t=55

Here is the general link to the scenario design forums over at Run5 which has quite a few helpful links etc..

http://ssg.com.au/forums/viewforum.php?f=3

Rob,

Thanks. I know you're tryinmg to be helpful, but that link goes to a thread that is about 3 years old, and again without screenies.

Not beat a dead horse...but, I really would like to "see" the process. Maybe it's too much to ask and I'll have to wait for the game.

_____________________________

JUST SAY NO... To Hideous Graphics.

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Post #: 15

RE: Can we get editor screenies, more info? - 7/14/2006 1:40:38 AM

Kilgore Trout

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Geozero,

The map editor is really easy to use. Basically you create a rudimentary map containing all the game information by assigning whatever terrain you want for each hex by color and then adding preset roads, rails, rivers, etc. Then this map is output to a paint program and you place the "arty" graphics over it. Once everything is recompiled in the game you never see the underlying map agian unless you want to, just the graphics that you created. It's really not bad. I jumped into the deep end with my first scenario (Market-Garden for BII) and really never felt like I would drown. The folks on the Run5 forum are very helpful and very quick to respond with answers to whatever questions you might have. At any rate, I don't think you would find screen shots of the editor very helpful.

As Rob said elsewhere, there are a lot of people in the forums who are willing to help with graphics (maps, counter designs, etc.) so long as you're serious about the scenario. No one minds contributing to a serious effort but nobody wants to work on stuff that never sees the light of day.

(in reply to geozero)

Post #: 16

RE: Can we get editor screenies, more info? - 7/17/2006 6:54:42 AM

geozero

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kilgore Trout

Geozero,

The map editor is really easy to use. Basically you create a rudimentary map containing all the game information by assigning whatever terrain you want for each hex by color and then adding preset roads, rails, rivers, etc. Then this map is output to a paint program and you place the "arty" graphics over it. Once everything is recompiled in the game you never see the underlying map agian unless you want to, just the graphics that you created. It's really not bad. I jumped into the deep end with my first scenario (Market-Garden for BII) and really never felt like I would drown. The folks on the Run5 forum are very helpful and very quick to respond with answers to whatever questions you might have. At any rate, I don't think you would find screen shots of the editor very helpful.

This sounds interesting. A bit different than what I'm used to seeing in other programs.

quote:

As Rob said elsewhere, there are a lot of people in the forums who are willing to help with graphics (maps, counter designs, etc.) so long as you're serious about the scenario. No one minds contributing to a serious effort but nobody wants to work on stuff that never sees the light of day.

If I wasn't serious I would not have asked. I understand group effort and support preeeety good.

_____________________________

JUST SAY NO... To Hideous Graphics.

(in reply to Kilgore Trout)

Post #: 17

RE: Can we get editor screenies, more info? - 7/17/2006 7:20:20 AM

Kilgore Trout

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quote:

"If I wasn't serious I would not have asked. I understand group effort and support preeeety good."

Any specific battle/scenario in mind?

< Message edited by Kilgore Trout -- 7/17/2006 7:22:46 AM >

(in reply to geozero)

Post #: 18

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Can we get editor screenies, more info?