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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> Norm Koger's The Operational Art Of War III >> Engineers

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Engineers - 7/29/2006 8:43:12 PM

alaric99x

Posts: 97
Joined: 5/30/2006
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I brought this up before, but I'll try to explain myself a little better this time.

I would like to see engineering operations handled a little differently. The way things work in TOAW, engineers start repairing a bridge and hope to have it completed by the end of the game turn, however long a time period that turn represents. If they're not successful at completing the task, they have to start all over again next turn. <It's late afternoon and the commander of the engineering unit decides his people won't finish the bridge that day, so he tells them to take it apart again, "We'll try again tomorrow."> Couldn't a bridge, or railroad section, be 33% completed and then allow more work to be done the next game turn?

I once had 5 engineer units on a blown bridge hex, all had about 25 - 30% engineering capability. One after the other, they all tried to repair the bridge and all failed. This brings up another point also: If a unit has 10 engineer squads assigned and gets 10 more squads as replacements, engineering ability of that unit doubles. No matter how many engineering units you have at work on a bridge, there is no pooling of effort and any work done by one unit is lost if that unit doesn't successfully complete the repair work.

I understand that engineering units from different divisions, corps or branches of service will not work together as well as more engineers added to a single unit. Engineering units from allied armies will cooperate even less effectively. Still, the system doesn't feel right the way it is now. I would prefer to have a percentage of work done on a bridge recorded so the next unit can add its effort or so that the same unit can keep working on the bridge the next game turn.

Post #: 1

RE: Engineers - 7/30/2006 11:59:32 AM

daBorg666

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Joined: 7/30/2006
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I have to agree, at the moment the system is ridiculous. I had five engineers working on a single bridge, all with something like 15%, and it took a whole 3 turns to finally repair it.

Moreover, in such a situation, it is easier to repair bridges with your rail-repait units (if they are rail bridges or combined rail/road bridges) by simply repairing the rails next to the bridge and then hoping that the automatic repair will do the job (which for some reason also repairs the bridges). Although I don't know if this is a feature or a bug ...

(in reply to alaric99x)

Post #: 2

RE: Engineers - 7/30/2006 3:25:36 PM

alaric99x

Posts: 97
Joined: 5/30/2006
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That's exactly what I'm talkin' about.

If only the "system" could keep a record of the repair work already done. Your first engineer unit might get a randomized 15%, say 11%, the second unit does 16% work, now the bridge is 27% completed. I think it's more logical and realistic. I'm not a programmer, but it seems the program code should be easy to change so the game does this.

I also know that you can repair rail and the bridge magically repairs itself. Bug? I don't know, but it's not realistic either.

(in reply to daBorg666)

Post #: 3

RE: Engineers - 7/31/2006 12:11:35 AM

rich12545

Posts: 1705
Joined: 10/31/2000
From: Palouse, WA
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I think the repair should depend on three things: engineering capability, the type of bridge (actual repair time), and the time scale (it should take way more turns to repair the same bridge if using 4/day compared to 1/week for example). The repair shouldn't be solely dependent on the number of turns.

(in reply to alaric99x)

Post #: 4

RE: Engineers - 8/23/2006 8:03:18 PM

alaric99x

Posts: 97
Joined: 5/30/2006
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I'm allowing myself the liberty of pulling this posting back up to the top. Can I get some more opinions on this subject, please. It seems like it would be easy to change the programming and make engineering more realistic.

(in reply to rich12545)

Post #: 5

RE: Engineers - 8/23/2006 8:37:10 PM

golden delicious

Posts: 5575
Joined: 9/5/2000
From: London, Surrey, United Kingdom
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It could certainly be done, and it would be an improvement. I don't know about making this dependent on co-operation. Probably the closest you could come would be to reduce the effect engineering units have if they are stacked with any other units with which they don't have full co-operation. Anything else would be a bit complicated.

_____________________________

"What did you read at university?"
"War Studies"
"War? Huh. What is it good for?"
"Absolutely nothing."

(in reply to alaric99x)

Post #: 6

RE: Engineers - 8/23/2006 9:01:30 PM

alaric99x

Posts: 97
Joined: 5/30/2006
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Thanks again! Wow, 2 out of 2 comments supporting these ideas, that's almost 100%!

(in reply to golden delicious)

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RE: Engineers - 8/23/2006 11:23:02 PM

golden delicious

Posts: 5575
Joined: 9/5/2000
From: London, Surrey, United Kingdom
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: alaric99x

Thanks again!� Wow, 2 out of 2 comments supporting these ideas, that's almost 100%!

This one would probably actually be harder to implement than the other. Also, one has to bear in mind a cost/benefit decision with all these things. TOAD has finite resources.

_____________________________

"What did you read at university?"
"War Studies"
"War? Huh. What is it good for?"
"Absolutely nothing."

(in reply to alaric99x)

Post #: 8

RE: Engineers - 8/23/2006 11:50:15 PM

el cid

Posts: 186
Joined: 1/28/2006
Status: offline

And engineeres are always going to tell you exactly how much time they need to repair the bridge.

You should not sit there not knowg whether it will take 1 or 10 attempts.

Perhaps on the first attempt they could tell you how many attempts is going to take, and then you can decide to pursue it or not.

(in reply to golden delicious)

Post #: 9

RE: Engineers - 8/24/2006 12:08:40 AM

alaric99x

Posts: 97
Joined: 5/30/2006
Status: offline

Well, you would have some general idea of the time it takes to complete an engineering operation. For example, if you have 12 engineer squads in a unit you will eventually learn that they can complete about 30% of a bridge or rail section in a turn for the scale of the scenario you're playing. But I would suggest a random factor being included, maybe giving an actual range from 15% to 45%. You could also factor in weather, day/night, interdiction, etc., but that would be introducing additional complications in programming.

(in reply to el cid)

Post #: 10