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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> Norm Koger's The Operational Art Of War III >> Massive Campaigns for Solitaire

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Massive Campaigns for Solitaire - 7/30/2006 11:43:58 AM

Skeleton

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Can anyone tell me of either existing scenarios to convert or ones on the horizon (along the lines of Europe Aflame) that are designed to be played against the computer or if not designed, that at least have the option to be played solitaire? I am looking for something around a 300 turn game or larger. Thank you in advance for any info.

< Message edited by Marcus the leper -- 7/31/2006 2:15:49 AM >

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RE: Massive Campaigns for Solitaire - 7/30/2006 6:50:52 PM

golden delicious

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It's precisely the larger and longer scenarios which the PO has the most difficulty with. I really don't think it would be possible to get the PO to play well for the entire duration of a large scenario of such a huge length. The player will always be able to exploit the formation-based AI. Europe Aflame is even more of a problem as units have to be moved between discrete fronts, often by sea.

The PO plays excellently in small short scenarios. The further you get away from that, the more problems you're going to encounter. You could try playing hotseat solitairre.

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RE: Massive Campaigns for Solitaire - 7/30/2006 7:52:28 PM

*Lava*

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Hi!

Keep your eyes out for my "The Fourth Republic" scenario I am currently working on.

I expect it to come in at about 200 turns and be published in about a month.

Here is a LINK which has a screen of the situation you find yourself in Turn 1.

I'll be updating that thread with a new screen shortly.

Ray (alias Lava)

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RE: Massive Campaigns for Solitaire - 7/30/2006 8:46:25 PM

Silvanski

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I started one of the long ones that has a PO,�Gary Skaar's�[potentially] 312 turns long�1939 1945 - War in the West scenario(COW converted to TOAWIII) as Allies against Elmer's Axis forces.

Elmer's been pummeling the Polish army to pulp, although I managed to evacuate some units to�a Danish port, the�Shetlands and Faroer Isles (the only unrestricted hexes so far in Europe) and also a couple of units went to North Africa, where they are helping making fortified hexes.

I'm on turn 20 now, the Phoney War but there's been action in the Mediterranean... I did something stupid... sending the French Toulon based fleet on an ill-fated mission...to fight it out with the Italian navy based near Genoa... The French got shattered... Also that must have provoced Duce Elmer who went on the rampage and raided Gibraltar and even taking the supply point on eastern Malta... I managed to capture that again but the battle for that tiny bu strategically important island is not over...

Here's the link to the scenario ---> War In The West 2.0

File Details

The Operational Art of War: Century of Warfare : War in the West

File Author : Gary Skaar
File Added : 11 MAY 2003
Total Downloads : 1239 � (Last 30 Days : 19)
Location : Europe
Opponents : Axis vs. Western Allies
Date : � 1 SEP 1939
Scale : Based on Divisional level

Description :

This scenario only deals with the Axis struggle against the Western Allies during World War 2. I.e., Poland, Scandanavia, France, the Low Countries, England [and it's Commonwealth forces], and finally America. The OOB is accurate for both the Axis and the Allies with units remaining the their respective Theaters for 6 months or more. Best played as 2 Player.

(((The scenario notes also state that it can be played against the Axis or Allies PO)))

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Silvanski -- 7/31/2006 12:15:21 AM >

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RE: Massive Campaigns for Solitaire - 7/30/2006 9:10:05 PM

TOCarroll

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I have been hoping someone would bring this up. For years I have been working on a way to have an AI opponent for a massive WW2 game. I worked something up for Avalon Hill's "Advanced Third Reich". It is a "logic tree" for what the other guy does. While it would not directly apply to TAOW, I believe, that with a lot of work, it could be adapted to any wargame. The key to the system is that it does not use binary logic. "Fuzzy Logic" for better want of a term (which seems to apply to many military decisions anyway), is a good description. It DOES reduce to binary logic, and it incorporates Military logic, The personality of the commander (e.g. Hitler would be less likely to give ground), and a value point system, valuing avaliable forces & reserves, logistics, force concentration, and value of objectives. Weather, terrain, the political situation, research, ect are included.

This is a large paper flowchart system only (done for 3R). However, with effort, it could be adapted to a biggie WW2 game. However, it took,a lot of work to get it to go for Advanced Third Reich. Adapting it to Russian Campaign from there was a peice of cake.

If done, I think it would be a big jump in AI programming. I would like to give it a go with the TAOW European WW2 scenario. HOWEVER, I would first like some feedback on this from Matrix. It is a broad-spectrum solution (which works quite well for me.....sort of a mix of D&D and Advanced Squad Leader), which would be useful in most military simulations. I'm not asking for money here, just that they would take a look at the idea, and give me an honest opinion of its' feasability.

I would estimate it would take me about 3 months work (and a lot of it...I'm disabled, thus unemployed) to get something that would work for Europe Aflame. The Axis is a hell of a lot easier to do, as it is run by one lone nut, but I can also do the allies. One at a time please. What would be your preference, and how much support (e.g. other people who would like an AI like that) do you think this would generate.

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RE: Massive Campaigns for Solitaire - 7/30/2006 10:22:05 PM

the dragon

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Rugged Defense has an updated version 2.0 of this scenario posted 2 months later. Gary Sklaar says the earlier scenario was flawed with a computer glitch he couldn't fix by editing it and that v2.o has been completely redone and in essence is a whole new scenario. Its still playable as either side against the PO.

The Dragon

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RE: Massive Campaigns for Solitaire - 7/30/2006 10:35:07 PM

Silvanski

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quote:

ORIGINAL: the dragon

Rugged Defense has an updated version 2.0 of this scenario posted 2 months later. Gary Sklaar says the earlier scenario was flawed with a computer glitch he couldn't fix by editing it and that v2.o has been completely redone and in essence is a whole new scenario. Its still playable as either side against the PO.

The Dragon�

Indeed, that's the one I'm playing right now... I corrected the link in my previous post

Well, as things go with the PO... Elmer took me by surprise....
March 23 1940... German Invasion of The Netherlands, Belgium and France!!!

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Silvanski -- 7/31/2006 12:16:03 AM >

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RE: Massive Campaigns for Solitaire - 7/31/2006 2:14:31 AM

Skeleton

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Great and many thanks to all of you. Lava, I have had my eye on your scenario since you first posted it a week or so ago and Silvanski, what do I need to do to convert the scenario you mentioned to TOAW 3 or is this version already converted? Again, thanks for all of your replies.

< Message edited by Marcus the leper -- 7/31/2006 2:16:15 AM >

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RE: Massive Campaigns for Solitaire - 7/31/2006 4:48:55 AM

Silvanski

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Marcus the leper

what do I need to do to convert the scenario you mentioned to TOAW 3 or is this version already converted?

Open the COW scenario in the TOAW III editor and then save it, that makes it playable on TOAWIII

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RE: Massive Campaigns for Solitaire - 7/31/2006 4:59:11 AM

Mad Cow

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The Yugoslavia 1941-1945 is pretty big. It should be in the WW2 Misc. folder of TOAW3

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RE: Massive Campaigns for Solitaire - 8/2/2006 10:22:49 PM

jbunnelle

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God, I'd love to see a great A3R type scenario. Avalon Hill, man. Hot summers, dog-earred counters, the neighbor nextdoor getting pissed off and going home because he's getting bad dice rolls in FRANCE 1940 or PANZERBLITZ.

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RE: Massive Campaigns for Solitaire - 8/3/2006 4:23:51 AM

TOCarroll

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Well, jbunelle, you may be in luck. Of course there's going to be a bit of a wait. However, I am flowcharting my butt off. I think I can get around the massive number of events needed by adding a subroutine run prior to the beginning of the turn. The program provided (Allied) AI for Advanced Third Reich. If I can run a small scenario PO (say Rommel in North Afrika 41-42), then it can probably be done for Europe in Flames, or some similar scenario.

Don't hold your breath though, it's going to take months.....but I have the time. And there are plenty of scenarios with no PO.

A note to designers: Please understand that I will NOT tweek any one's design without express permission. Right now, I am just seeing if it can be done with TAOW3. With 3R I used a database I set up, and, of course it was a boardgame-----no interface issues.

Tom OC

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RE: Massive Campaigns for Solitaire - 8/3/2006 9:34:36 PM

jrb001

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There's a 'solo-playable'scenario in the WW2 - Med folder called "Sicily to Brenner Pass".
From the invasion of Sicily in July '43 to the end of the war - one day turns, so it clocks in at over 600 turns!

I'm playing it now, on Turn 44 or so.

- j

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RE: Massive Campaigns for Solitaire - 8/3/2006 11:50:58 PM

Skeleton

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These are all really informative post and very helpful and I thank you all very much. TOCarroll if you could be so kind as to keep us informed of your progress, say as Lava is doing with his scenario, I would be most appreciative. I don't think I am alone when I say, any adapation of A3R would be fanatastic, no matter how long it takes. And to have the ability to play Europe Aflame against the PO would be unbelievable. I have gotten about 20 or so turns into The War in the West 2.0 scenario that Silvanski recommended and I am finding it to be just what I was looking for.

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RE: Massive Campaigns for Solitaire - 8/4/2006 1:46:23 AM

golden delicious

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quote:

ORIGINAL: jrb001

There's a 'solo-playable'scenario in the WW2 - Med folder called "Sicily to Brenner Pass".
From the invasion of Sicily in July '43 to the end of the war - one day turns, so it clocks in at over 600 turns!
I'm playing it now, on Turn 44 or so.

That would be good for the PO due to the basically linear nature of the map, so long as the designer has programmed it thoughtfully.

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"War Studies"
"War? Huh. What is it good for?"
"Absolutely nothing."

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RE: Massive Campaigns for Solitaire - 8/4/2006 4:08:16 AM

TOCarroll

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Thanks Marcus, and the rest of you. I realize that coming up with a PO for WW2 in Europe (a la Adv. 3R) is a monster task. TAOW does, however, have a built-in AI, and you just have tp fill in some paramaters. Works well for battles and campaigns, but the ebb and flow of a big campaign FIE or war really pushes the limits as many decisions are Strategic and not tacital. Furthermore, there is a complexity to TAOW the Advanced Third Reich (or any boardgame) cant begin to touch.

I have my work cut out for me, but I also have plenty of spare time, and an avid desire to see a Third Reich - type game with a good PO. If I have any significant results at all, I will report them to the forum. My original flowchart/system was sort of a decision tree/hierarchy, opertaing on very different principles from TAOW's PO. The do appear to be complementary, so I'll just have to see how much they like each other.

Best wishes to all,

Tom OC

P.S. Anything more on this I'll put in the design forum. Probably be a while.....lots of welding and grafting to do..
.

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RE: Massive Campaigns for Solitaire - 8/7/2006 10:36:20 PM

jbunnelle

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The one problem I always found with multi-theater monster scenarios is air superiority. You can't differentiate between regions with that, correct? I think it's all or nothing.

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RE: Massive Campaigns for Solitaire - 8/8/2006 12:37:51 AM

TOCarroll

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Thats not the only problem with multi-theater monster scenarios

. The real problem IMHO is solvable by working downwards fro "The Whole *&^%$#@ War" to "East Front", West Front", and "Med. Front", to use Avalon-Hills Third Reich as an example. It works (somewhat), but is ahistorical, since Germany had overlapping jurisdictions on everything. If I ever get the basic problems solved, it would come down to running one or several subroutines before the move goes into the actual Matrix PO.

As to the air, you have to set fighters of Air Superiority Missions withing their range. The problem you allude to would be that the air report would be useless (except for casualties). The two soultions that come to mind are 1) You have to develop a feel for air superiority in each theater (a 'la Unit Proficiency/supply/ect. {hopefully a little green box])

2) A subroutine for theater air supremacy.

Perhaps this is why most monster games designed by players have major flaws in the PO.

Tom OC

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RE: Massive Campaigns for Solitaire - 8/13/2006 5:48:20 PM

macgregor

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I'm noticing that the large PO scenarios have not been included in TOAW3. I'm playing 'War in the West' and noticing the same malaise affecting the German PO in June 40. I want to like this game. So far my demographic has been completely shutout from the R & D however.

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RE: Massive Campaigns for Solitaire - 8/13/2006 6:54:20 PM

L`zard

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macgregor, et al ;

Actually, not so, guys.... Most of the PO stuff is part of the scenario design, hence the sce designer's personal responsibility, eh?

I know for a fact that some of these people are just waiting for ToaW3 to stabilize, and for the upcoming wEditor to be finished befor updating thier scenarios.

There's a whole lot of work involved in making a scenario, espescially the 'huge' catagory. Considering that in some parts hundreds of hours are involved, well, I don't think you should expect instant results.

Remember: AnyOne can submit an upload of thier new scenario, so what's keeping you from 'making it your way' ?

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RE: Massive Campaigns for Solitaire - 8/14/2006 6:36:50 PM

golden delicious

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quote:

ORIGINAL: L`zard

Remember: AnyOne can submit an upload of thier new scenario, so what's keeping you from 'making it your way' ?

Add that one can load any TOAW COW scenario in TOAW III.

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"War Studies"
"War? Huh. What is it good for?"
"Absolutely nothing."

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RE: Massive Campaigns for Solitaire - 8/15/2006 9:07:14 AM

samba_liten

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Drang nach Osten seems to work pretty well against the PO. So far, ive only played 2 turns though.

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RE: Massive Campaigns for Solitaire - 8/15/2006 9:51:12 AM

Silvanski

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quote:

ORIGINAL: polarenper

Drang nach Osten seems to work pretty well against the PO. So far, ive only played 2 turns though.

Which side are you playing?

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RE: Massive Campaigns for Solitaire - 8/15/2006 3:31:00 PM

samba_liten

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The russians. The po seems to handle the germans well enough. The russian po doesnt really do much, except move troops around behind the front and bombard some finnish units with his fleet. (i tried playing as the germans for 3 turns.)

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RE: Massive Campaigns for Solitaire - 8/15/2006 7:01:15 PM

Silvanski

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Yeah I noticed that in "not for PO play" scenarios the computer is better on the attack than on the defense. Of course this also can make for some ahistorical events like in some WW2 European theater scenarios that the computer attacks the Western countries already in 1939.

Editing the scenario might help -setting exclusion zones I believe- but as a noob I still have some way to go before I'll be into that

< Message edited by Silvanski -- 8/15/2006 7:03:41 PM >

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RE: Massive Campaigns for Solitaire - 8/15/2006 7:14:21 PM

golden delicious

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Silvanski

Of course this also can make for some ahistorical events like in some WW2 European theater scenarios that the computer attacks the Western countries already in 1939.

This is fairly routine in Europe Aflame even in human vs. human games. I guess the force supply level is too high so there is no need for the Germans to wait over the winter to prepare for the campaign.

_____________________________

"What did you read at university?"
"War Studies"
"War? Huh. What is it good for?"
"Absolutely nothing."

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Post #: 26

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Massive Campaigns for Solitaire