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Dear David Heath - again - 6/22/2006 10:01:16 AM

Soult

Posts: 26
Joined: 9/20/2004
Status: offline

Dear David Heath, you closed the last thread and of course you will not be amused to find another one with the same name - I try to choose my words in the right way...

It was a mistake to mention the name of the developer when I did wrote my two questions. And "can we still trust you ?" was somewhat provocative too.

Dear David Heath
Had there always someone been working at this game as you suggested some time before ? Because the men who is in charge of this project - and according to many forum users is doing a great job - once said he has not only to care for EiA but has 3 jobs to work for in total. Do you think it was a good desicion to give this job to him and not to somebody who can focus only on EiA ?

Same questions, no distraction. Hope it helps.

@everybody: if you reread the first thread, you may find out that there is just one person who argues in a sceptical (as I would say) or negative way - everbody else is defending the developer and/or Matrix. No need to become hysterical at the worst.

Post #: 1

RE: Dear David Heath - again - 6/23/2006 8:18:02 PM

hlj

Posts: 83
Joined: 3/19/2004
Status: offline

That is harsh of you. A man can be good at his job, even though he has two others.

To imply that he shouldnt have other jobs is to say that you think he should devote all of his waken hours to EIA. That wouldnt be bad, but I think it is unfair to expect him to use all his waken hours on EIA if he doesnt get paid for working on it around the clock.

It sounds like you want the super programmer with no personal life, who doesnt care about money and is only devoted to make EIA, to make the game... He isn't real!! Wake up from your fantasy and start expecting real people to work on the game, instead of figments of your imagination. Or better yet, start a fund that can support Marshall Ellis and his familly while he works only on EIA.

hlj

(in reply to Soult)

Post #: 2

RE: Dear David Heath - again - 6/23/2006 11:54:37 PM

rhondabrwn

Posts: 2570
Joined: 9/29/2004
From: Snowflake, Arizona
Status: offline

The whole idea of people (who have no personal knowledge of the development process of a game that none of them have yet seen or played) condemning Marshall and Matrix is beyond belief.

It is equally silly (though well intentioned, I'm sure) to start threads so people can "vote" on what they think of the programmer.

When the game is ready, it will be ready. If you then want to buy it, then buy it... if not, don't.

It's not your money, it's not "your" game franchise, it's not your company. When you want to buy the rights, pay for the development, and market the resulting product, then you can call the shots on the next game.

As for EIA, let's chill. This is totally non-productive.

The last thing I want to see in the Matrix forums is a proliferation of these kinds of personal attacks on development staff, Matrix management, beta testers, or anyone else. Trying to make them sound a little more polite, doesn't make it the right thing to do.

_____________________________

Love & Peace,

Far Dareis Mai

My old Piczo site seems to be gone, so no more Navajo Nation pics :(

(in reply to hlj)

Post #: 3

RE: Dear David Heath - again - 6/24/2006 1:31:45 AM

Soult

Posts: 26
Joined: 9/20/2004
Status: offline

@hlj
harsh ? I think your INTERPRETATION is harsh. You say that I ask for a "super programmer" with "no personal life", "doesnt care about money", "devoted only to EiA" -next you ask me to wake up from "my fantasy"- sorry, that�s your fantasy. With all respect, but it is strange that you start to speak about super programmer etc. only to ask me to stop with that.
The few programmers I know work on a regular basis or get their money at the end of a project- so they can pay their debts (if they had to make some) and/or have a financial basis for the next money-when-ready-project. I am not sure if there is an advantage to have 3 projects runnings the same time just as I don�t want to speculate about the family status of anybody, that�s simply private.

@rhondabrwn
"condemning Marshall and Matrix" - condemning ? I asked not to become hysterical again, but well... my question refers to the time the development takes, whats wrong with it ? The answer might be "everything is perfect and just as desired" or "well, there was no alternative" or "we got the best men for the job, time is not that important" or "next time we will choose a guy with only one additional job" etc. I just would like to know, so why do you have to blame me ?

"I may not agree with what you say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it." - what a joke to quote Voltaire, you better stop it.

(in reply to rhondabrwn)

Post #: 4

RE: Dear David Heath - again - 6/24/2006 1:56:22 AM

pasternakski

Posts: 6565
Joined: 6/29/2002
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Soult
"I may not agree with what you say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it." - what a joke�to quote Voltaire, you better stop it.

Everyone please remember that Voltaire was a satirist of deep and uncertain meaning and implication. When you use this "quote" in this way, you are not saying what you think you are. Go to the source and read Voltaire in his own words. You might enjoy it. You might even read something Voltaire actually wrote (this "quote" is from a silly hack English society writer of the early 20th Century named Evelyn Beatrice Hall - pseudonym S.G. Tallentyre - in a forgettable work named "The Friends of Voltaire," which had aspirations to be a serious biography, but fell victim to the old "I don't have a good quote, so I'll make one up" syndrome. The closest Voltaire ever came to this sentiment was in a letter to a gentleman named le Riche, where Voltaire said, "I detest what you write, but I would give my life to make it possible for you to continue to write" (transl. from orig. French)).

Oh. Rhonda is right - when it comes out, if you like it, buy it. If not, don't. I will just add, as a former waiter, "The customer is always right, but be a customer, not a pain in the @$$, or I'll kick you out of my restaurant."

< Message edited by pasternakski -- 6/24/2006 2:10:29 AM >

_____________________________

Put my faith in the people
And the people let me down.
So, I turned the other way,
And I carry on anyhow.

(in reply to Soult)

Post #: 5

RE: Dear David Heath - again - 6/24/2006 10:27:47 AM

Ursa MAior

Posts: 1416
Joined: 4/20/2005
From: Hungary, EU
Status: offline

pasternakski

Why not just let him be? IMHO the best solution is not to answer his posts like this.

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Art by the amazing Dixie

(in reply to pasternakski)

Post #: 6

RE: Dear David Heath - again - 6/25/2006 3:36:13 AM

Anendrue

Posts: 817
Joined: 7/8/2005
Status: offline

It will be done when it is done.

Michangelo to the Pope

_____________________________

Integrity is what you do when nobody is watching.

(in reply to Ursa MAior)

Post #: 7

RE: Dear David Heath - again - 8/1/2006 10:10:21 AM

Sardonic

Posts: 215
Joined: 12/1/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: pasternakski

quote:

ORIGINAL: Soult
"I may not agree with what you say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it." - what a joke�to quote Voltaire, you better stop it.

Everyone please remember that Voltaire was a satirist of deep and uncertain meaning and implication. When you use this "quote" in this way, you are not saying what you think you are. Go to the source and read Voltaire in his own words. You might enjoy it. You might even read something Voltaire actually wrote (this "quote" is from a silly hack English society writer of the early 20th Century named Evelyn Beatrice Hall - pseudonym S.G. Tallentyre - in a forgettable work named "The Friends of Voltaire," which had aspirations to be a serious biography, but fell victim to the old "I don't have a good quote, so I'll make one up" syndrome. The closest Voltaire ever came to this sentiment was in a letter to a gentleman named le Riche, where Voltaire said, "I detest what you write, but I would give my life to make it possible for you to continue to write" (transl. from orig. French)).

Oh. Rhonda is right - when it comes out, if you like it, buy it. If not, don't. I will just add, as a former waiter, "The customer is always right, but be a customer, not a pain in the @$$, or I'll kick you out of my restaurant."

Uncertain meaning? His targets seemed to be more than aware of what he meant.
But here is one that I am certain you are familiar with, and indeed he did say......

�It is clear that the individual who persecutes a man, his brother, because he is not of the same opinion, is a monster.�

and it seems to apply quite a bit, to game forums, and polemical posts.

TOLERANCE

(in reply to pasternakski)

Post #: 8

RE: Dear David Heath - again - 8/1/2006 6:33:16 PM

Murat

Posts: 803
Joined: 9/17/2003
From: South Carolina
Status: offline

Well as I have said before, multi-tasking is a skill some do not have and if you decide to multi-task and end up not succeeding, then you risk causing ill-will. Accountability is another thing that some people can bring themselves to do, thus risking the same. Matrix dropped the ball on EiA. They know they did. They replaced the developer. Because they took so long to hold the 1st one accountable (and because that one could not multi-task, or single task as the case may be), ill will was generated and transfered to the project. Marshall, who was already busy, agreed to take it over. He has not done it at the pace I would have liked (which candidly would have been one involving pushing everything else aside, drinking Mountain Dew, Jolt, Stacker punch and not sleeping for however long it took to bring this awesome game into being) but my expectations are unrealistic and tied to a strong personal desire to play this game 2 years ago. Marshall took a lot of input from us and is taking even more during beta testing, even from us who are not beta testers but still have comments. Either being a perfectionist or a capitalist must be driving him since it can only lead to the best possible and most marketable product, hopefully one that will be rewarded with sales from new players to replace those who are too disillusioned to buy this anymore (hardcore EiA players will buy it regardless).

As for Matrix, like I have also said before, they need to sit back and wait. They act like agents for the developers and whether they like it or not, they did a poor job with EiA in the beginning (I think they even failed to properly watch out for Marshall by making sure EVERYONE understood how he ended up taking over the project). Closing threads with valid concerns only makes it worse. Just let Marshall do his thing and see how sales go, but stop censoring the board for opinions that make you look bad by calling you on your mistakes.

In the end you made the right move by getting Marshall on board, you just should have done it much sooner and held your devs accountable (Like Gary and that POS WAW, devs should not be allowed to rely on their former good names and not be told when they make crap).

(in reply to pasternakski)

Post #: 9

RE: Dear David Heath - again - 8/4/2006 11:44:26 AM

Norden_slith

Posts: 166
Joined: 8/27/2003
From: expatriate german
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: abj9562

It will be done when it is done.

�� Michangelo to the Pope

Finally, someone put programmers and EiA into perspective!

Norden

_____________________________

Norden
---------------------------------------------------------------
Hexagonally challenged

(in reply to Anendrue)

Post #: 10

RE: Dear David Heath - again - 8/6/2006 9:27:37 PM

hlj

Posts: 83
Joined: 3/19/2004
Status: offline

Soult;
I belive that everybody has a personal life.
No one can focus on only eia unless they have no personal life to steal focus from Eia!
Whether Marshall focus on other jobs, his family or something else is none of your or my buisness.

To say that you want a person that can focus on only eia, is in my oppinion to ask for a person that does not exist. In my former post I named that imaginative person the "Super programmer"

I ask you to wake up from your fantasy, because you are asking a question that makes no sense.

It doesnt make sense to ask whether or not it would have been a good idea to choose another programmer based on a set of prerequisits that cant be fulfilled.

Further more your question is moot. If the management had a problem with Marshall not being able to do his job, he would not still be in charge of the project.

(in reply to Norden_slith)

Post #: 11

RE: Dear David Heath - again - 8/7/2006 1:55:22 PM

Soult

Posts: 26
Joined: 9/20/2004
Status: offline

dear hlj,
why do you start again with "private life" ? Its only you who speaks about it, and again only to ask me to stop that. It�s absurd to discuss the fact that you can�t finish two or more projects in the same time as you would finish only one of them. What is your problem with it ? And do you really want to say there is no programmer in the world working at only one project ?

quote:

It doesnt make sense to ask whether or not it would have been a good idea to choose another programmer based on a set of prerequisits that cant be fulfilled.

what are you talking about ? Set of "prerequisits" ? Set ? What do you mean by set ?
"prerequisits that cant be fulfilled"... please make a list of these "prerequists" and show me where you can find it in my posting...

otherwise lets stop this, cause I won�t get an answer as it seems from Mr. Heath and I wonder if you or anybody feels fine just wasting time in misreadig 2 simple questions.

(in reply to hlj)

Post #: 12

RE: Dear David Heath - again - 8/12/2006 12:30:18 PM

hlj

Posts: 83
Joined: 3/19/2004
Status: offline

There might be programmers only working on one project at a time, but that does not ensure that they can focus only on that project. But personaly in my work as a programmer, I have never had only one project at a time.

Soult, lets say you are hired to work 30 hours per week to make a wargame and for 30 hours per week to pogramme another game.

Are you really saying you will finish quicker working 30 hours a week to make the wargame if you do not work on the other game????????

Private life= whatever they might do when they are not at work.(Excuse my English, it is not my native tounge) I talk about private life, because you seem not to acknowledge that people do anything but working. Is that realy what you think?

Do you mean that you want someone who can focus only on EIA while at work?

Are you saying that you want Matrixgames to pay someone to work around the clock?

Are you saying that you expect someone to work around the clock on a project they get payed to work on for 20 hours a week? (the 20p hours is a fictive number, I dont know how many hours a week marshall has)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Soult

somebody who can focus only on EiA

From your top post. This is your prerequisit posted at the top of this topic. That is what you want instead of what you got. So it must be your personal prerequisit for what would have made EIA available earlier. From your post I could derive more prerequisits for the game being released earlier. But lets leave it at this for now.

If we humor me and say you said yes to you wanting someone who could focus only on EIA while at work. Then we now have the problem that while he is working he will now need 3 times the money to be able to afford to quit the two other jobs. He will still have to wait as long on playtesters as he is now, exept at 3 times the pay. He would still have to wait on outsourced parts of the project to finish, or wait on other programmers at matrixgames. Because it is highly unlikely that he is both programming the game, doing the graphics and doing the sound.

Now soult, How much would the game now cost with all the money payed to marshall for waiting?

P.S. You might feel that I am misreading your questions and your following posts and you might be right(I couldnt tell if i have misread them), but I feel like you are misreading what I am writing.

(in reply to Soult)

Post #: 13

RE: Dear David Heath - again - 8/12/2006 9:45:58 PM

Murat

Posts: 803
Joined: 9/17/2003
From: South Carolina
Status: offline

Unless I am in grave error, Marshall does not get "paid" to work on this. He programs the game Matrix markets and distributes and if we buy enough copies then Marshall make a profit or royalty or whatever but I think he only makes money at the end of this project. Although I did at one time say I would be willing to put money into project development (pre-order) if I could get the game for free and my investment cost less than the market price of the game (say like $5 or $10 less).

(in reply to hlj)

Post #: 14

RE: Dear David Heath - again - 8/12/2006 10:41:19 PM

hlj

Posts: 83
Joined: 3/19/2004
Status: offline

Even more reason for Marshall to have another job.

I think your right an option to pre-order would be nice ^_^

(in reply to Murat)

Post #: 15

RE: Dear David Heath - again - 9/7/2006 9:12:35 PM

wfzimmerman

Posts: 660
Joined: 10/22/2003
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: hlj

That is harsh of you. A man can be good at his job, even though he has two others.

To imply that he shouldnt have other jobs is to say that you think he should devote all of his waken hours to EIA. That wouldnt be bad, but I think it is unfair to expect him to use all his waken hours on EIA if he doesnt get paid for working on it around the clock.

It sounds like you want the super programmer with no personal life, who doesnt care about money and is only devoted to make EIA, to make the game... He isn't real!! Wake up from your fantasy and start expecting real people to work on the game, instead of figments of your imagination. Or better yet, start a fund that can support Marshall Ellis and his familly while he works only on EIA.

hlj

Actually, he's Steve Hokanson, who's doing MWIF. ;-)