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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [Modern] >> Harpoon 3 - Advanced Naval Warfare >> Threat Axis Mechanics

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Threat Axis Mechanics - 8/5/2006 7:56:55 PM

msin

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Joined: 1/31/2005
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While I understand the underlying principal and theory behind the threat axis used in Harpoon 3, I am struggling with understanding how they actually impact gameplay. I would be very interested in hearing others thoughts/experiences on proper use of threat axis and what, if any, underlying game mechanics come into play.

For example:
1. Does the defending ships/aircraft have a reduced chance of detecting and responding to attacks that originate outside of the primary threat axis?
2. Are ship defenses more effective in engaging attacks that fall within an existing axis?
3. Is a more narrow threat axis more effective at identifying and countering threats than a broader one?

The manual provides great details on how & why threat axises should be used but it provides next to no information on how they are used within the game.

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RE: Threat Axis Mechanics - 8/5/2006 8:37:59 PM

jkruny

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Hey msin,

In practical application, the AAW threat axis is the only one I regularly use. The ASW axis is automatic, and always set along the PIM. With modern SSMs, a ship can engage another ship from anywhere in a task force formation, so the ASuW threat axis is not relevant for the most part.

The AAW axis is useful and important. It allows your SAM shooters to maintain a good missile intercept position, rather than maybe having to try a slant or crossing missile intercept, which of course has a lot lower probability of success.

A narrower threat axis arc will make the assigned unit hold a tighter position, and yes, it will then be more effective versus a known threat.

One "trick" that I have used in the past, is to use the ASuW axis and the AAW axis in tandem, being able then to create an outer AAW zone with one axis, and an inner zone with the other. (Threat axis are not weapon specific, a ship assigned to an ASuW or ASW axis will still engage inbound SSMs, for instance)

Hope this is helpful.

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Post #: 2

RE: Threat Axis Mechanics - 8/5/2006 10:02:02 PM

hermanhum

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Joined: 9/21/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: msin

For example:
1. Does the defending ships/aircraft have a reduced chance of detecting and responding to attacks that originate outside of the primary threat axis?
2. Are ship defenses more effective in engaging attacks that fall within an existing axis?
3. Is a more narrow threat axis more effective at identifying and countering threats than a broader one?

I had the same questions regarding the usage of Threat Axes. This is only my experience, but IMO, the various Threat Axes function primarily as an organizational tool for positioning ships within the formation.

For example, I do not believe that:

1) if you have two identical ships and
2) one is stationed according to the ASuW Threat Axis and,
3) the other on the AAW Threat Axis but,
4) both are at the exact same position on the map,

that the two ships would function in a different manner just because they are positioned according to different threat axes. Empirically, I have not found that the Ship on the AAW axis to fire on aircraft any more quickly or effectively than the ship on the ASuW axis would.

The same applies to the breadth of the Axis selected. I find the size of the axis is irrelevant. However, the size of the individual patrol zones is very relevant, IMO.

Good hunting.

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Post #: 3

RE: Threat Axis Mechanics - 8/6/2006 6:04:55 PM

jpkoester1

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quote:

ORIGINAL: msin

While I understand the underlying principal and theory behind the threat axis used in Harpoon 3, I am struggling with understanding how they actually impact gameplay. I would be very interested in hearing others thoughts/experiences on proper use of threat axis and what, if any, underlying game mechanics come into play.

Hi there,

I haven't tested this in a long time as I usually micromanage, but the main function of thread axis is that the patrol zones that you assign in the formation editor are attached to them. So if you assign planes on an AAW patrol on the same bearing of your AAW threat axis, and then create a tracking threat axis on an enemy vessel that means that your aircraft will stay between you and the enemy vessel even if the relative position of both change.

Cheers,
JP

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Post #: 4

RE: Threat Axis Mechanics - 8/6/2006 10:37:26 PM

msin

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JP, Jeff, Herman:

I sure appreciate the quick responses from everyone. Based on your responses, it seems that threat axis management has more to due with solid formation management than sensor/weapons management (as I originally thought).

Thanks,
Mike

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Post #: 5

RE: Threat Axis Mechanics - 8/6/2006 11:03:41 PM

hermanhum

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Bingo!

You and I better play, soon, before you get too good for me to beat!

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Post #: 6

RE: Threat Axis Mechanics - 8/6/2006 11:32:24 PM

msin

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Joined: 1/31/2005
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quote:

You and I better play, soon, before you get too good for me to beat!

Herman,

If you will read my most recent thread on the forum, you will see that you have little to fear from me

The only danger I appear to pose to the enemy is the threat of crashing my fighters into their ships

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Post #: 7

RE: Threat Axis Mechanics - 8/8/2006 7:04:25 AM

mikmykWS

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Here's the Formation Editor Manual.

Can also find it in the manual that shipped with the game.

< Message edited by mikmyk -- 8/8/2006 7:05:13 AM >

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Post #: 8

RE: Threat Axis Mechanics - 8/8/2006 12:38:35 PM

msin

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Mikmyk,

Thanks for the additional information. The wiki info helped to finalize my understanding. Now I just need to see if I can put this new knowledge to practical application

Thanks,
Mike

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Post #: 9

RE: Threat Axis Mechanics - 8/8/2006 3:18:37 PM

mikmykWS

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Yeah one time through is about all you need with it. Have fun etc. etc.

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Post #: 10

RE: Threat Axis Mechanics - 8/11/2006 3:26:07 AM

VistaJohn1

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Joined: 6/23/2006
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Hi

A thought to keep in mind. You can concentrate you forces on the threat axis and get max benefit from them, but don't forget to shift the axis as thing change. Check regularly to make sure it is where you want it. I do not leave that to staff as I like to keep tight control. I like to have two zones (using Surface axis also, to cover two different thrat axis) that can be combined or kept separate as needed. As was already mentioned, ballanced unit do all functions regardless of what axis they are in. You can use sprint/drift with AAW forces to help ASW, and will also do surafce warfare. If no nukes, tighter formations allow faster repostioning. Big risk with nukes though.

Its is a great game and after years you still find new ways to do thing and hear great new ideas from forms like this.

VistaJohn

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Post #: 11

RE: Threat Axis Mechanics - 8/12/2006 2:59:19 AM

msin

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One more quick Formation Editor question for the group....

When looking at the X & Y axis in the formation editor, should I think of these axis as representing North, South, East and West or relative to the PIM?

For example... My Taskforce is currently heading South and I define the AAW Threat Axis to be pointing south and define one ship's PZ to be 5 miles south (or below) of the HVU. I then change my taskforce's direction to be due north. Will this ship begin moving north but remain 5 miles south/below of the HVU or will more North and eventually take station 5 miles north/above of the HVU?

I hope this example makes sense and doesn't just muddy the waters (and my brain) further

Thanks,
Mike

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Post #: 12

RE: Threat Axis Mechanics - 8/12/2006 4:35:59 AM

hermanhum

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quote:

ORIGINAL: msin

For example... My Taskforce is currently heading South and I define the AAW Threat Axis to be pointing south and define one ship's PZ to be 5 miles south (or below) of the HVU. I then change my taskforce's direction to be due north. Will this ship begin moving north but remain 5 miles south/below of the HVU or will more North and eventually take station 5 miles north/above of the HVU?

Unless the AAW Threat Axis is set to track an enemy unit, it will not move. Therefore, when your Task Group starts to move northwards, the AAW Axis will remain pointing to the South. The ships assigned to the AAW Threat will not change their position. Only those units stationed along the ASW Threat Axis will re-locate.

Good to see you digging into the details.

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Post #: 13

RE: Threat Axis Mechanics - 8/12/2006 4:40:39 AM

VistaJohn1

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Hi

Just make sure the staff is not controlling the axis. If they are and shift the axis, then the PZ will rotate with the axis.

VistaJohn

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Post #: 14

RE: Threat Axis Mechanics - 8/12/2006 4:47:28 AM

VistaJohn1

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Hi Again

Your question regarding N/S and the FE Window. No, North (or South)could be at a small angle. You will see this when you have a course set and are well north or south. Watch the ASW pointer (in the FE Window) to determin the amount of difference (or offset).

VistaJohn

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Post #: 15

RE: Threat Axis Mechanics - 8/12/2006 10:32:47 AM

hermanhum

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Here is an example of the offset. This image is taken from the PlayersDB scenario, "True North Strong and Free" by Freek Schepers.

You can see that the North American map is 'sideways' and that TF06 is on a course of 1 degree True Bearing. Now, when you look at the Formation editor box, you can see that the ASW threat axis is pointing almost 45 degrees True.

Since the ASW threat axis is always directly tied to the course of the Task Group, you know that the ASW Threat Axis is showing the course of the ships. In this example, although the Axis points to 45 degrees in the Formation Editor, you KNOW that they are heading 1 degree True from the Unit display information. Therefore, you cannot reliably use the Cardinal points shown in the formation editor to reflect points of the compass.

I hope that this helps and does not confuse.

Attachment (1)

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Post #: 16

RE: Threat Axis Mechanics - 8/12/2006 10:30:35 PM

jeroen79

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Note that if you press 5 on the numpad and then click on the map the message display will tell you things about the spot you clicked on, including the heading from the previous spot.
This also works in the formation editor.
Just click on the center of the grid and then on one of the axes and you'll know how the grid is oriented.

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Post #: 17

RE: Threat Axis Mechanics - 8/12/2006 11:47:38 PM

msin

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As always, I appreciate everyone's prompt and helpful replies. If there was an emoticon for "lightbulb going off", that would be inserted <here>

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Post #: 18

RE: Threat Axis Mechanics - 8/13/2006 4:49:26 AM

VistaJohn1

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Joined: 6/23/2006
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Hi

Great tip! Will see how much I can lean from the form. Years ago tried several, but it seemed to be a mine field with little regard for the average players. More shots exchanged than during a scenario attacking the Kola P! This one seems to be a lot better.

VistaJohn