Loading Airgroups at Pearl: Will patches help?

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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> War In The Pacific - Struggle Against Japan 1941 - 1945 >> Tech Support >> Loading Airgroups at Pearl: Will patches help?

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Loading Airgroups at Pearl: Will patches help? - 7/21/2006 3:33:17 AM

aernor

Posts: 9
Joined: 3/4/2005
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I'm running version 1.4 of War in the Pacific on Windows XP. As far as I know it's unpatched, I haven't noticed any serious problems until now - loading aircraft at Pearl Harbour.
I gather from the forum this has been a problem.
In the past have had success loading aircraft on turn 1 or 2 of the Grand Campaign, but now I've hit problem. There's one AK with a speed of 18 knots, and nothing will induce it to load an air group now..... though I've done so in the past.
Secondly whether or not I load Air Groups at all on any AK is becoming a bit hit and miss. The only way to be certain is 'save' , press the button for end of turn, and then try again.
Third the Dauntless Airgroup simply vanished. Turn 1 it was there. Turn 2 gone, and I had made no attempt at loading it.
So, will patching the game help? (or is there another solution)
Which patch do I use - I mean the latest one or all of them together or what?
How do I apply the patch, download and self install?
Am I going to have to start the game again?
Thanks for your help.

Post #: 1

RE: Loading Airgroups at Pearl: Will patches help? - 7/21/2006 5:44:12 AM

dtravel

Posts: 4533
Joined: 7/7/2004
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I would suggest first patching up to the latest, which is 1.801, and restarting. I sounds like you haven't gotten too far along if you're still mucking about with turn 1 and 2.

There is a 1.8 Comprehensive patch (or should be) in the downloads section. Apply that then the 1.801 patch and see if the same problems occur. If they do, then let us know and we'll start suggesting causes.

_____________________________

This game does not have a learning curve. It has a learning cliff.

"Bomb early, bomb often, bomb everything." - Niceguy

Any bugs I report are always straight stock games.

(in reply to aernor)

Post #: 2

RE: Loading Airgroups at Pearl: Will patches help? - 7/21/2006 10:10:28 PM

aernor

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Joined: 3/4/2005
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Thanks for your advice. I've now patched up to 801 and spent the day testing the results.
I've made sure my transport TFs were set not to unload and had a valid destination, before loading.
Firstly the problem with loading Air groups seems mostly to do with day 1 i.e. 8 December. Try loading up a TF on this date and the result is patchy to say the least. TF composition 4 DMS + 4 AK, tried to loaded 4 airgroups. Only one got loaded. The rest just stayed at Pearl.
Do the same operation on Day 2 and everything appears to load properly, and as an additional test I formed a second TF, 4 DMS + 1 AK and loaded another air group. No problem.
I think I've found the solution to the missing Dauntlesses.
How the problem started:-
I was well into the game with the AC loaded on board the fast AK South of New Guinea, and got torpedoed. The AK sank and with it the Air Group. I'd made a few other mistakes (like getting a Air TF out of Fuel!) so it was a convenient point to restart or rather go back to turn 1.
I save at the beginning and end of each turn.
The Dauntlesses were there on turn 1, and had vanished at the beginning of turn 2. During the execution phase the game checked the file and found that the dive bombers had been destroyed (or were going to be destroyed in 10 days time!!) - then removed them from the game. This problem may also have affected the fast AK (Alchiba ?) since that had been sunk as well. Anyway it proved impossible to load anything on her, but that could just have been the other problem manifesting itself.
So to recap
Loading AC at Pearl on Day 1 is a problem, although you can see a certain logic in it.
When destroyed the file for the dauntlesses doesn't reset properly if you restart the game.
I don't think there's any way round the 2nd problem unless you go right back to square one, load scenario, then set up all TFs, LCUs, Airgroups ....

But of course if I'd protected my solitary AK better none of this would have happened.

(in reply to dtravel)

Post #: 3

RE: Loading Airgroups at Pearl: Will patches help? - 7/22/2006 2:20:35 AM

dtravel

Posts: 4533
Joined: 7/7/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: aernor
TF composition 4 DMS + 4 AK, tried to loaded 4 airgroups. Only one got loaded. The rest just stayed at Pearl.

Okay, here's the problem. You can only load one air unit per TF. That has always been true. If you want to have 4 AKs in a single TF, each carrying a different air unit then you need to create four separate TFs of 1 AK each, have each TF load one of the air units, then combine them into one TF.

(For that matter, you can only load one LCU per TF as well.)

_____________________________

This game does not have a learning curve. It has a learning cliff.

"Bomb early, bomb often, bomb everything." - Niceguy

Any bugs I report are always straight stock games.

(in reply to aernor)

Post #: 4

RE: Loading Airgroups at Pearl: Will patches help? - 7/22/2006 2:32:25 AM

ckk

Posts: 1268
Joined: 10/18/2000
From: Pensacola Beach FL
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quote:

ORIGINAL: dtravel

quote:

ORIGINAL: aernor
TF composition 4 DMS + 4 AK, tried to loaded 4 airgroups. Only one got loaded. The rest just stayed at Pearl.

Okay, here's the problem. You can only load one air unit per TF. That has always been true. If you want to have 4 AKs in a single TF, each carrying a different air unit then you need to create four separate TFs of 1 AK each, have each TF load one of the air units, then combine them into one TF.

(For that matter, you can only load one LCU per TF as well.)

Really?

I never saw that before

< Message edited by ckk -- 7/22/2006 2:37:49 AM >

(in reply to dtravel)

Post #: 5

RE: Loading Airgroups at Pearl: Will patches help? - 7/22/2006 5:16:14 AM

SamCole

Posts: 116
Joined: 7/1/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: dtravel

quote:

ORIGINAL: aernor
TF composition 4 DMS + 4 AK, tried to loaded 4 airgroups. Only one got loaded. The rest just stayed at Pearl.

Okay, here's the problem. You can only load one air unit per TF. That has always been true. If you want to have 4 AKs in a single TF, each carrying a different air unit then you need to create four separate TFs of 1 AK each, have each TF load one of the air units, then combine them into one TF.

(For that matter, you can only load one LCU per TF as well.)

This is not true at all. I have loaded 3 or 4 airgroups on multiple AKs in a single taskforce. I have also loaded 2 or more LCUs on APs in a single TF.

(in reply to dtravel)

Post #: 6

RE: Loading Airgroups at Pearl: Will patches help? - 7/22/2006 5:19:37 AM

aernor

Posts: 9
Joined: 3/4/2005
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One of my standard opening moves (turn 2) is to form a TF typically with 5 AKs 4,500 Cap and then load 5 Air units. Once the TF is under way I usually check to see everything is loaded, and there beside each ship is a different Air Unit. Sorry to correct you, but if you look back to my post you'll see that's exactly what I did.
At the beginning of turn 3 there were 2 transport TFs heading for Suva. 1 AK with 16 Dauntless and the 2nd TF with 4 Aks carrying another 4 Air Units.

And just to make sure I've done it again. On Turn 2 at Pearl created 2 TFs one with 4 AKs and the second with just 1 AK, loaded a total of 5 Air units, and dropped them all off at Johnson Island. I did not have to create 5 separate TFs to transfer 5 air units!

I haven't tried an invasion yet but the same appears to apply to LCUs. There are two Aussie battalions at Darwin. I form a single TF with two transports and load both LCus, and drop them both off together at Kendari. There may be a bit of a problem with loading full strength divisions or very large formations. On a couple of occasions I've checked the size of the unit against the capacity of my transports and although there seemed to be enough I was still left with men standing on the dock.

Similarly I have loaded 5 LCUs (Artillery regiments) at Karachi, 5 LCUs 5 AKs i.e. 1 TF and 5 LCUs

The problem occurs on turn 1 at Pearl harbour. I've spent the whole day loading and running the 1st and 2nd Turns. First patched to 18.0 then to 18.01 to seee if there was any difference. There wasn't. Most of the time Aks singly or together in a TF will not load Air Units on Turn 1 at Pearl Harbour. Sometimes they do, but most of the time not a single nut or bolt is loaded. It's a random problem which I can work around simply by delaying my transport missions by 1 turn.

There may be an additional problem with the fast AK. As far as I can tell it's unique, the only AK that can do 18 knots and because it was destroyed in one game, reloading an earlier turn may not have reset the file, hence it was unable to load anything. I'm sure this is why the Dauntless Air Group also vanished.

(in reply to ckk)

Post #: 7

RE: Loading Airgroups at Pearl: Will patches help? - 7/22/2006 5:34:55 AM

dtravel

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Joined: 7/7/2004
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Well then I don't know what to tell you. I have never been able to get multiple units to load at the same time on to a single TF. Way back when, shortly after the game came out I remember being told not to try. At this point, especially given that fact that only seems to be occuring during the first turn and appears to be random, I think you need to get Don or Joe's attention and send a save game in.

_____________________________

This game does not have a learning curve. It has a learning cliff.

"Bomb early, bomb often, bomb everything." - Niceguy

Any bugs I report are always straight stock games.

(in reply to aernor)

Post #: 8

RE: Loading Airgroups at Pearl: Will patches help? - 7/22/2006 5:59:10 AM

ckk

Posts: 1268
Joined: 10/18/2000
From: Pensacola Beach FL
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: dtravel

Well then I don't know what to tell you.� I have never been able to get multiple units to load at the same time on to a single TF.� Way back when, shortly after the game came out I remember being told not to try.� At this point, especially given that fact that only seems to be occuring during the first turn and appears to be random, I think you need to get Don or Joe's attention and send a save game in.
[/quo

dtravel I've seem many of your posts which were right on So Iask again REALLY

(in reply to dtravel)

Post #: 9

RE: Loading Airgroups at Pearl: Will patches help? - 7/22/2006 8:10:28 AM

dtravel

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Really. I haven't even attempted it for the last year real time. The entire ship loading routines are, *ahem*, well, "funky" is being generous. For example....

Whoever it was that commented that they sometimes end up with men left on the dock despite thinking they had enough sealift capacity, you have to keep in mind that the load numbers you see are "estimates". Mr.Frag revealed a long time ago that those numbers are deliberately varied from the true value specifically to keep players from knowing for certain how much sealift they need.

_____________________________

This game does not have a learning curve. It has a learning cliff.

"Bomb early, bomb often, bomb everything." - Niceguy

Any bugs I report are always straight stock games.

(in reply to ckk)

Post #: 10

RE: Loading Airgroups at Pearl: Will patches help? - 7/22/2006 12:45:22 PM

aernor

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Joined: 3/4/2005
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It was me, commenting on men left behind at the dock. I can see the arguments for and against. The biggest problem is that relative newcomers to the game will wonder what the hell's going on.

As for the loading of TFs, well this wouldn't be the first time that identical game produce different results, though it seems as though at least two of us are conducting multiple loads.

Before restarting with a clean game I kept a copy of the buggered game, vanishing dauntlesses and all. So if you'll let me know where to send it I'll be happy to do so.

(in reply to dtravel)

Post #: 11

RE: Loading Air groups at Pearl: Will patches help? - 7/25/2006 5:56:45 PM

demonterico

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Joined: 10/16/2002
From: Seattle WA
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Dtravel is right in a sense, although theoretically a player should be able to load multiple AKs in a single TF with different units, and often can, the game system that controls this feature doesn't always work as a player intends.� I chalk this up to letting the AI make decisions about how to load each specific ship, and we all know how smart the AI is.�

My system is to form a TF with one ship in it, set to; do not unload, load the desired unit, repeat this procedure for each ship�intended to go into�the new TF,�then when all ships are properly loaded, I then form them into a TF and send them on their way.� This procedure has been discussed here in the forum before, and I believe it is a routine process for� a fair number of witp players.� Yes it does cost an extra day in the transport process, but thats alot better then the time lost when you get improperly loaded convoys sailing off before they're ready.

I realize this is extra work for the player, as it would be easier to load one TF with multiple ships, but remember; the devil is in the details, and this game is a bean counters delight.� After all, you are running half of WWII on your desk top.

< Message edited by demonterico -- 7/25/2006 5:58:28 PM >

_____________________________

The world has never seen a more impressive demonstration of the influence of sea power upon history. Those far distant, storm-beaten ships, upon which the Grand Army never looked, stood between it and the dominion of the world. -- Alfred Thayer Mahan

(in reply to aernor)

Post #: 12

RE: Loading Air groups at Pearl: Will patches help? - 7/25/2006 7:05:47 PM

bradfordkay

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From: Olympia, WA
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" I have never been able to get multiple units to load at the same time on to a single TF. "

I have always been able to load multiple air units aboard different ships in a TF, as long as I have one large AK per air unit. I have never tried to load air units aboard ship in PH on Dec 7, 1941 as this seems quite dangerous (threat of sub attack or another strike from the KB0.

_____________________________

fair winds,
Brad

(in reply to demonterico)

Post #: 13

RE: Loading Airgroups at Pearl: Will patches help? - 8/13/2006 12:09:39 AM

Xan Yae

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I believe I've noticed the cause of this problem. When ships are moved from dock into a TF the 1st thing that happens is they're refueled. Sometimes this process uses all of the op points for one or more ships. If all the op points are used in refueling there are none left for loading troops/air groups. This probably wasn't intended. I've only noticed this problem on turn 1 at Pearl Harbor.

(in reply to aernor)

Post #: 14

RE: Loading Airgroups at Pearl: Will patches help? - 8/13/2006 7:06:03 AM

michaelm75au

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From: Melbourne, Australia
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The basic rule is one AirGroup per ship.
After the group is loaded, you can load only supplies to fill up capacity of ship.

I have often loaded more than one group in a TF. [Note there was a bug where loading a normal group and a fragment of another group, did cause some weird re-allocation of planes. This has been fixed (1.801 or coming 1.802, not sure which).

But as someone mention above, if the ship used up OpsPoints, then this affects any type of loading.

After creating a TF, I always use "Refuel from port" to force any outstanding Ops use before trying to load. If a number of points were used up, I try to wait till next turn before string to load. If not points were expanded, I just load them up.

_____________________________

Michael

(in reply to Xan Yae)

Post #: 15

RE: Loading Airgroups at Pearl: Will patches help? - 8/13/2006 9:47:52 AM

dtravel

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Joined: 7/7/2004
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I get around the OPS points issue by refueling every TF just before I disband it. That way every ship is already fully loaded and fueled when I create a new TF.

_____________________________

This game does not have a learning curve. It has a learning cliff.

"Bomb early, bomb often, bomb everything." - Niceguy

Any bugs I report are always straight stock games.

(in reply to michaelm75au)

Post #: 16

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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> War In The Pacific - Struggle Against Japan 1941 - 1945 >> Tech Support >> Loading Airgroups at Pearl: Will patches help?

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