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Please don't yell at me for asking this!

 
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Please don't yell at me for asking this! - 8/25/2006 5:37:22 AM   
Nefarious13

 

Posts: 2
Joined: 8/25/2006
Status: offline 		Ok. You grognards out there be nice. I love Combat Mission BB and AK and GGWAW but in GGWAW I hated the combat animations. I felt they were too static. I know it shouldnt matter but could you inform me on whether or not they have been updated for this new game? Thanks.
Post #: 1
RE: Please don't yell at me for asking this! - 8/25/2006 1:23:47 PM   
Marc von Martial


Posts: 10875
Joined: 1/4/2001
From: Bonn, Germany
Status: offline 		No combat animations in the sequel at all.

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RE: Please don't yell at me for asking this! - 8/25/2006 4:58:41 PM   
Syagrius

 

Posts: 165
Joined: 5/12/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Marc Schwanebeck

No combat animations in the sequel at all.

No animation at all? You should at least keep the animations of the original WaW no?

< Message edited by Syagrius -- 8/25/2006 4:59:11 PM >

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Post #: 3
RE: Please don't yell at me for asking this! - 8/25/2006 8:39:12 PM   
Forwarn45

 

Posts: 718
Joined: 4/26/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Syagrius
No animation at all? You should at least keep the animations of the original WaW no?


Agreed. You should at least leave the option for players who want to use it. I confess that although the animations are cheesy, I often play with them on. I usually click the box to close the animation when combat starts -- except for big and important battles. I sometimes watch these because I like the drama of seeing how the die roles go rather than instantly knowing how the battle resolves. It's kind of like rolling the dice in Axis and Allies. A little silly maybe, but there's no harm in leaving it in -- right?

(in reply to Syagrius)
Post #: 4
RE: Please don't yell at me for asking this! - 8/25/2006 10:36:18 PM   
Joel Billings


Posts: 32265
Joined: 9/20/2000
From: Santa Rosa, CA
Status: offline 		We wanted to spend time adding a lot of new information to the mouse over text in the combat report screen and we have increased the amount of unit graphics in the game. We could not afford the time and money to add animation graphics for all the new units and given the hit we took on the cheese factor we decided to dump the animations. We decided the focus should be on improving the things that most people use and have asked for at the expense of the animations. The animations was something that was just too time consuming and expensive to get right, and given it was all show and no player input, it lost out.

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Post #: 5
RE: Please don't yell at me for asking this! - 8/26/2006 12:29:11 AM   
Grotius


Posts: 5798
Joined: 10/18/2002
From: The Imperial Palace.
Status: offline 		Fine with me, Joel. I never played with the animations on anyway. I understand why some folks might be disappointed, but I suspect most of us won't care. I'm glad resources are going into other things.

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Post #: 6
RE: Please don't yell at me for asking this! - 8/29/2006 2:41:18 PM   
Nefarious13

 

Posts: 2
Joined: 8/25/2006
Status: offline 		Sorry Joel. But I won't buy it without animation. I know people enjoy wargames with just tiles etc, but that's not me. Depth without any attempt at immersion for me does just not work.

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Post #: 7
RE: Please don't yell at me for asking this! - 8/29/2006 4:14:09 PM   
Syagrius

 

Posts: 165
Joined: 5/12/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Nefarious13

Sorry Joel. But I won't buy it without animation. I know people enjoy wargames with just tiles etc, but that's not me. Depth without any attempt at immersion for me does just not work.

You got a point there. Same for me. I guess I will buy the original WaW instead.

(in reply to Nefarious13)
Post #: 8
RE: Please don't yell at me for asking this! - 8/29/2006 6:37:23 PM   
TexHorns

 

Posts: 243
Joined: 10/7/2005
Status: offline 		Count me in the no animation is okay crowd. I definetly prefer the depth of play to acting out battles in animation. If the battles were ala COG where you actually fight them out tactically (not a bad idea by the way) then the animations would have a purpose. Another idea would be to let the player "roll a die" to determine the out come of the battle. Strat o matic baseball on computer actually let's you roll dice on the computer to get the result.

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Post #: 9
RE: Please don't yell at me for asking this! - 8/29/2006 7:17:29 PM   
Joel Billings


Posts: 32265
Joined: 9/20/2000
From: Santa Rosa, CA
Status: offline 		Hopefully we'll have a demo after the game is released so you can try it and see if it works for you without the animations. I can understand though that different players have different interests and desires in a game.

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Post #: 10
RE: Please don't yell at me for asking this! - 8/30/2006 2:29:12 AM   
Ancient One

 

Posts: 178
Joined: 7/1/2000
From: Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
Status: offline 		It doesn't really matter to me. When I first got WaW I had the animations on, however they eventually got tedious so later on I played without them. I suspect most people are the same way.

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Post #: 11
RE: Please don't yell at me for asking this! - 8/30/2006 9:34:57 AM   
Petiloup

 

Posts: 505
Joined: 6/4/2006
Status: offline
True that sometimes I keep the animations for some suspens. Sill nice for ship attacks but if AWD is getting rid of the flaws of WAW at the price of animations then fine by me.

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Post #: 12
RE: Please don't yell at me for asking this! - 9/2/2006 6:04:21 AM   
mikwarleo

 

Posts: 70
Joined: 6/27/2006
Status: offline 		I'd have to see the game to come to a real conclusion but initially the idea of taking the animations out all together rather than improving them seems a big mistake to me. Even with the 'cheezy' animations of the current game I often watch the animations as it gives a (very limited) sense that you're watching the battlefield.

Whether it's realistic in programming terms or not in an ideal world I was wanting better gameplay and better animations from the sequel. I'm sorry to be a neg-monkey but the sequel is going to have to provide a lot in gameplay terms to see me part with another round of cash for what appears to be (from the screenshots I've seen) a very similar looking game.

I find it funny that several posters from the 'no animations is ok' camp say that they "suspect that most people feel the same" as them. Based on what exactly? And *if* they're right how much does that have to do with the fact that the current animations are so 'cheezy'? I don't expect it will happen or have any effect but what about a poll?


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Post #: 13
RE: Please don't yell at me for asking this! - 9/2/2006 10:27:04 PM   
Joel Billings


Posts: 32265
Joined: 9/20/2000
From: Santa Rosa, CA
Status: offline 		In the ideal world, with unlimited resources, of course adding better animations would be great. We don't live in that world and it was exactly because we wanted to focus on more gameplay changes/improvements that we made the decision to cut lose the animations as too expensive. We know we will lose some players because of this, but it allows us to make what we think is overall a better game. The animations were good for some things, including instructing beginners on how the flow of combat works, but I think most people turn them off for most combat once they get used to the game. I could be wrong about that, but we got a lot of criticism for the cheesy look of the animations and making them better would have been difficult for us to do (especially having added a lot of new weapons art to show improving units, a new feature that many asked for). Since many players of AWD will have played WaW, we think players will be ready to do without the animations. I too wish we could have afforded to do great animations if only to entice the casual players. On the other hand, we really think that for as good as WaW gameplay was, AWD is many times better (more options, more features, more possible and varied strategies, more realism).

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Post #: 14
RE: Please don't yell at me for asking this! - 9/3/2006 2:02:05 PM   
mikwarleo

 

Posts: 70
Joined: 6/27/2006
Status: offline 		I hope you're right and will enjoy playing such a game. :)

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Post #: 15
RE: Please don't yell at me for asking this! - 9/5/2006 8:20:55 PM   
CTB123

 

Posts: 74
Joined: 5/27/2002
From: Iowa, USA
Status: offline 		I have no problem with the animations being taken out, especially with limited development resources available.  I usually have them off anyway as they strike me as a little hokey.

I am very happy to see unit icons are being updated to reflect tech changes through the war.  That is a a very welcome FUNCTIONAL upgrade.

Tony

(in reply to mikwarleo)
Post #: 16
RE: Please don't yell at me for asking this! - 9/5/2006 9:28:37 PM   
sveint


Posts: 3556
Joined: 1/19/2001
From: Glorious Europe
Status: offline 		Would it be possible for modders to add animations?

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Post #: 17
RE: Please don't yell at me for asking this! - 9/5/2006 10:11:43 PM   
Joel Billings


Posts: 32265
Joined: 9/20/2000
From: Santa Rosa, CA
Status: offline 		Unfortunately no as the entire option no longer exists in the game. With the new suppression rules, there is more to combat now that the animations would not show. I'm not sure what would happen if the old code was hooked up and allowed to try to run at this point.

(in reply to sveint)
Post #: 18
RE: Please don't yell at me for asking this! - 9/6/2006 3:07:50 AM   
Forwarn45

 

Posts: 718
Joined: 4/26/2005
Status: offline 		Given the responses here, it might be worth investigating adding back the old animation code as an optional feature with the default set for "off." You might avoid the criticism of "cheesy animation" if this isn't a standard "feature" a reviewer would use, while still appeasing those who like to have the animation.

But I'll buy the game in either case.

< Message edited by Forwarn45 -- 9/6/2006 3:08:32 AM >

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Post #: 19
RE: Please don't yell at me for asking this! - 9/27/2006 6:07:44 PM   
Syagrius

 

Posts: 165
Joined: 5/12/2006
Status: offline 		Yeah, good idea. Options are always the best solution.

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Post #: 20
RE: Please don't yell at me for asking this! - 10/5/2006 8:16:26 AM   
sabre100

 

Posts: 393
Joined: 5/23/2004
Status: offline 		I am ok with no animation as well, now the other question I have is in the original WaW you were able to mod your own scenarions, it was not easy and you had to modify text files but are the text files still the same in this new version?

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Post #: 21
RE: Please don't yell at me for asking this! - 10/5/2006 9:19:01 AM   
Uncle_Joe


Posts: 1985
Joined: 8/26/2004
Status: offline 		I believe there is actually more that is moddable in AWD. I havent modded it myself, but I belive one of the goals was to make more the data moddable. Perhaps Lebatron will happen by and give more details. He was big into modding WaW and he has been involved with AWD from the beginning so he should have a pretty good idea of what is moddable.

But yes, the basic scenario data and units data etc are all just text files that can be changed.

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Post #: 22
RE: Please don't yell at me for asking this! - 10/23/2006 9:26:04 PM   
ChanceBS

 

Posts: 7
Joined: 6/5/2006
Status: offline 		I would have to say that if in the marketing/selling point data on your website had indicated, "Combat Animations Excluded", I would not have purchased this software.

It is not game players you are going to lose, it is Matrix Games customers.

I feel a little decieved on this purchase.

Thanks
Chance

(in reply to Uncle_Joe)
Post #: 23
RE: Please don't yell at me for asking this! - 10/23/2006 10:33:37 PM   
Uncle_Joe


Posts: 1985
Joined: 8/26/2004
Status: offline 		The combat animations where a neat little addition and they helped to see the flow of combat when learning the game. But they certainly weren't the selling point of the game! And unfortunately, they were panned by a good many people (players and reviewers alike).

When I first started with AWD, I missed having them too (especially to learn the new combat mechanics), but honestly after a few games, I'd more or less forgotten about them. I'd urge you to play the game as it is and see if the same doesnt happen for you.

The anims were fun IMO, but in no way does their exclusion reduce the other value of the game IMO.

< Message edited by Uncle_Joe -- 10/25/2006 1:13:19 AM >

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Post #: 24
RE: Please don't yell at me for asking this! - 10/23/2006 10:41:50 PM   
rjh1971


Posts: 4919
Joined: 12/13/2005
From: Madrid, Spain
Status: offline 		If I don't recall wrong I'm pretty sure I read there were not going to be animation graphics in the sequel, can't remember were though, so this was said.

Anyway the first time I played AWD, back in july (yes I was part of the beta tester team) I also felt a bit dissapointed about the absence of animations, but I'm not any longer, you've got to give the game a chance, see all it's new implements and possibilities, and play, play, play, after a while you won't be missing the animations.

Hope you enjoy it and get over this initial disilussion, believe me the game wouldn't have gain anything with animations, it's about strategy.

Of course it's my opinion and you might fully disagree.


(in reply to ChanceBS)
Post #: 25
RE: Please don't yell at me for asking this! - 10/23/2006 10:44:06 PM   
rjh1971


Posts: 4919
Joined: 12/13/2005
From: Madrid, Spain
Status: offline 		Hey Joe, you got in between my post when I was writting it, but I can see we have said more or less the same .

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Post #: 26
RE: Please don't yell at me for asking this! - 10/24/2006 1:20:56 AM   
Les_the_Sarge_9_1

 

Posts: 4392
Joined: 12/29/2000
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Chance

I would have to say that if in the marketing/selling point data on your website had indicated, "Combat Animations Excluded", I would not have purchased this software.

It is not game players you are going to lose, it is Matrix Games customers.

I feel a little decieved on this purchase.

Thanks
Chance


I can recall back when GGWaW the first one was released, and my initial thoughts on the unit icons was "why did Gary let his kids draw them?". I was particularly unimpressed.

But I also knew the game I bought was the game I knew was under the hood. I wasn't buying it because it was pretty (even if it had been).

What I have to wonder Chance is, if the animations were that important to you, were you actually really genuinely interested in the real game under the hood?

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I LIKE that my life bothers them,
Why should I be the only one bothered by it eh.

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Post #: 27
RE: Please don't yell at me for asking this! - 10/24/2006 1:31:46 AM   
JudgeDredd


Posts: 8573
Joined: 11/14/2003
From: Scotland
Status: offline 		Not for me this one. I tried and wasted my money on GG:WaW. 3 month turns just don't cut it for me....but you guys have a nice time.

I'm not trolling by the way...I always look through forums (especially of new games) and read and listen and take part in discussions...


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Post #: 28
RE: Please don't yell at me for asking this! - 10/24/2006 3:08:59 PM   
timtellean1

 

Posts: 77
Joined: 3/28/2005
Status: offline 		I don't miss the animations just like so many others I turned them after a few battles. I think the game is tightenend up quite a bit and with 35% off I was happy to purchase. Now to Forge of Freedom. Thats the game I want.

(in reply to JudgeDredd)
Post #: 29
RE: Please don't yell at me for asking this! - 10/24/2006 10:53:08 PM   
TheHellPatrol


Posts: 1588
Joined: 7/3/2004
Status: offline 		No animations, no sale. I'm glad i didn't get suckered in by the 35% discount...i would have felt ripped off as well. They(animations) made it unique and IMO were good. Oh well...i need room on my hardrive anyway

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A man is rich in proportion to the number of things he can afford to let alone.
Henry David Thoreau

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Post #: 30
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