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A word on betas / future releases - 9/7/2006 1:34:25 PM   
puresimmer

 

Posts: 2299
Joined: 7/24/2005
Status: offline 		I probably need to make some clarifications around BETA releases. Beta releases are not considered official releases. They may contain new code that needs additional testing before transitioning into the code base of an official patch. If you are not willing to try out some of this experimental/new stuff then please do not install beta releases.

I think I have probably de-sensitized the PureSim community to this concept, since typically betas are rock solid. That said, please remember your mileage may vary with a beta release.

Many companies frown upon public betas because of the potential negative press / support implications. My historical position on this has been, since I have no internal testing resources, the broad testing I can get with a public beta is a huge help.

However, I am changing this position. I am going to select a team of internal beta testers for all testing moving forward and will only be publicly releasing official patches.

In retrospect, I think my constant tweaking and public betas are becoming a detriment to the PureSim community. The 2007 game is extremely stable and at this point, I am going to put it to bed as of the next patch. I need to get going on 2008! :)



_____________________________

Developer, PureSim Baseball
Post #: 1
RE: A word on betas / future releases - 9/7/2006 3:47:36 PM   
torque561

 

Posts: 61
Joined: 10/19/2005
Status: offline 		That seems to be a real shame. I believe that I installed at least 90% of the patches and they always seemed to make the game better. It was fun to feel like I was contributing something on the beta page. I think that I'm probably not the only one here who's main expertise is using the on/off button. ( I still haven't been able to get the face packs working.) Contributing in the Beta forum always makes me feel like a computer guy. I still love the game and will continue to comment in the forum.

(in reply to puresimmer)
Post #: 2
RE: A word on betas / future releases - 9/7/2006 6:43:15 PM   
markprior22

 

Posts: 51
Joined: 8/19/2005
Status: offline 		Yeah, this is a shame. I was actually hoping other developers might take notice and go this route also. I didn't realize that it was causing so many problems...I thought the point was to get a stable release in as many hands as possible and work from the feedback provided.

(in reply to torque561)
Post #: 3
RE: A word on betas / future releases - 9/7/2006 7:55:57 PM   
JoeRockhead


Posts: 38
Joined: 7/26/2004
Status: offline 		I like the Beta release method as well.

(in reply to markprior22)
Post #: 4
RE: A word on betas / future releases - 9/7/2006 8:01:08 PM   
Bustoff


Posts: 259
Joined: 8/19/2005
From: Columbia, MO
Status: offline 		Why not have it both ways? I work for a software company, and our beta versions are extensively tested in-house and also by a small, hand-picked group of customers. These customers are computer-savvy, and are expected to beat the crap out of our product during the testing, just like customers do in real life. The customers always come up with issues we would never see in our semi-sterile testing environment.

With both in-house and real-world exposure, your beta versions will get the use (and abuse) they need to reveal any issues.

(in reply to puresimmer)
Post #: 5
RE: A word on betas / future releases - 9/7/2006 9:22:41 PM   
puresimmer

 

Posts: 2299
Joined: 7/24/2005
Status: offline 		I am still going to distribute the betas to plenty of users, just not *all* the users.

_____________________________

Developer, PureSim Baseball

(in reply to Bustoff)
Post #: 6
RE: A word on betas / future releases - 9/7/2006 10:40:23 PM   
VanScoy


Posts: 87
Joined: 12/2/2005
Status: offline 		I agree it is a shame. I was always amazed at the features being considered for patches and the feedback level you have generated AND embraced. While I hope not to be left out of the loop, I understand your frustration.

(in reply to puresimmer)
Post #: 7
RE: A word on betas / future releases - 9/7/2006 10:59:51 PM   
SirWolf1960

 

Posts: 124
Joined: 8/20/2005
Status: offline 		I also have enjoyed the whole public beta process. But I understand your position. If I don't get chosen to get the betas, I'll miss it, but still be enjoying the game.

Steve

(in reply to VanScoy)
Post #: 8
RE: A word on betas / future releases - 9/8/2006 12:00:00 AM   
KG Erwin


Posts: 8981
Joined: 7/25/2000
From: Cross Lanes WV USA
Status: offline 		Well, I've expressed my hopes for the game publically, and my opinions on the betas privately, so I understand and respect Shaun's decision.

(in reply to SirWolf1960)
Post #: 9
RE: A word on betas / future releases - 9/8/2006 12:04:47 AM   
torque561

 

Posts: 61
Joined: 10/19/2005
Status: offline 		I respect Shaun's decision. I'm just going to miss looking forward to the Beta's. For me, it was a lot of fun.

(in reply to KG Erwin)
Post #: 10
RE: A word on betas / future releases - 9/8/2006 4:17:29 AM   
verizon32

 

Posts: 168
Joined: 5/23/2006
Status: offline 		Shaun

I really hope you change your mind on this.
I also love seeing the betas and testing it out as I play.
This is my first time with puresim and love the support and the game.

(in reply to torque561)
Post #: 11
RE: A word on betas / future releases - 9/8/2006 4:29:38 AM   
dneely


Posts: 227
Joined: 8/20/2005
Status: offline 		Shaun:

Knowing you I wonder if this is really your decision? PureSim and those of us who have been with you for years and beleive in what you are doing will go which ever way you want to go. But the Beta release format has always been an intregal part of PureSim and I believe has helped you to constantly improve and enrich this super game.

That said I am onboard no matter which way you go and I look forward to adding my opinions and insights into the 2008 version. I love this game and every beta has greatly increased my enjoyment with the game.

_____________________________

DNeely

PureSim Vet

(in reply to verizon32)
Post #: 12
RE: A word on betas / future releases - 9/8/2006 4:39:49 AM   
JimboJ

 

Posts: 70
Joined: 10/8/2005
Status: offline 		I'm a little confused about the difference between beta versions and release candidates.  I was under the impression that release candidates would be the same code as the release version, and only bug fixes would be made from that point until the official release.  But it seems like the last couple of release candidates have added new features.  Not that I have anything against adding new features, but it seems to defeat the purpose of having a release candidate.

Having said that, I would like to offer a suggestion.  Send the beta versions out to a selected group of testers.  Then when you feel the game is stable, then offer the release candidate to the public.  From that point, don't make any changes other than bug fixes.  I think this would be a good compromise.  I just think the game would benefit greatly from opening up the testing to a wider array of users and machine configurations, but only after it has been stabilized and the features set.

(in reply to dneely)
Post #: 13
RE: A word on betas / future releases - 9/8/2006 5:21:16 AM   
puresimmer

 

Posts: 2299
Joined: 7/24/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JimboJ

I'm a little confused about the difference between beta versions and release candidates.  I was under the impression that release candidates would be the same code as the release version, and only bug fixes would be made from that point until the official release.  But it seems like the last couple of release candidates have added new features.  Not that I have anything against adding new features, but it seems to defeat the purpose of having a release candidate.

Having said that, I would like to offer a suggestion.  Send the beta versions out to a selected group of testers.  Then when you feel the game is stable, then offer the release candidate to the public.  From that point, don't make any changes other than bug fixes.  I think this would be a good compromise.  I just think the game would benefit greatly from opening up the testing to a wider array of users and machine configurations, but only after it has been stabilized and the features set.


You are 100% right. I screwed up by trying to sneak a feature into an RC.

_____________________________

Developer, PureSim Baseball

(in reply to JimboJ)
Post #: 14
RE: A word on betas / future releases - 9/8/2006 7:36:24 PM   
bigpapag

 

Posts: 36
Joined: 1/14/2006
Status: offline 		Shaun everyone at ny place will surely miss the Public Beta releases.all 4 of us have our own assocations going and look forward to each new Beta. I hope you will set up a thread were puresimers could go for some help while they are going thru the Public BETA withdraw period.

All joking aside you know I'm with ya no matter which way you go

Big Papa Gil

(in reply to puresimmer)
Post #: 15
RE: A word on betas / future releases - 9/9/2006 12:38:55 AM   
Amaroq

 

Posts: 1100
Joined: 8/3/2005
From: San Diego, California
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: puresimmer
quote:

ORIGINAL: JimboJ
I'm a little confused about the difference between beta versions and release candidates. I was under the impression that release candidates would be the same code as the release version, and only bug fixes would be made from that point until the official release. But it seems like the last couple of release candidates have added new features. Not that I have anything against adding new features, but it seems to defeat the purpose of having a release candidate.

Having said that, I would like to offer a suggestion. Send the beta versions out to a selected group of testers. Then when you feel the game is stable, then offer the release candidate to the public. From that point, don't make any changes other than bug fixes. I think this would be a good compromise. I just think the game would benefit greatly from opening up the testing to a wider array of users and machine configurations, but only after it has been stabilized and the features set.


You are 100% right. I screwed up by trying to sneak a feature into an RC.


If I might offer my advice - I think you get a lot of benefit, both in appearance to the community and in testing the game, from the open/public betas.

I think this particular instance was
a.) A 'major' feature that you might have been better off to 'hold back' for 2008; and
b.) A feature of sufficient scope to warrant being the 'first build' of a new beta/RC cycle rather than an addition to a late, stable RC build.

Both of those feel more like a 'release process' thing with this particular release than a problem with the open beta patches.

I'd counsel giving it a week or three, and making a final decision about this when you're less keenly feeling the 'egg on the face' effect, and really weight the benefits vs the risks; closed beta, open RC might be a good path, or maybe a cycle like 'closed alpha, open beta', with your hand-picked comrades on the alpha cycle and the entire community getting to see the betas.


(in reply to puresimmer)
Post #: 16
RE: A word on betas / future releases - 9/9/2006 2:14:34 AM   
bosunmate

 

Posts: 20
Joined: 8/20/2005
Status: offline 		Shaun I also enjoy the beta releases, always looking forward to new additions and corrections. I am pleased how your dream has grown these last few years and wish you all the best. I will continue to work Puresim into my budget every year because the enjoyment I get from your game is priceless. Thank You

(in reply to Amaroq)
Post #: 17
RE: A word on betas / future releases - 9/9/2006 3:41:41 AM   
puresimmer

 

Posts: 2299
Joined: 7/24/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Amaroq

quote:

ORIGINAL: puresimmer
quote:

ORIGINAL: JimboJ
I'm a little confused about the difference between beta versions and release candidates. I was under the impression that release candidates would be the same code as the release version, and only bug fixes would be made from that point until the official release. But it seems like the last couple of release candidates have added new features. Not that I have anything against adding new features, but it seems to defeat the purpose of having a release candidate.

Having said that, I would like to offer a suggestion. Send the beta versions out to a selected group of testers. Then when you feel the game is stable, then offer the release candidate to the public. From that point, don't make any changes other than bug fixes. I think this would be a good compromise. I just think the game would benefit greatly from opening up the testing to a wider array of users and machine configurations, but only after it has been stabilized and the features set.


You are 100% right. I screwed up by trying to sneak a feature into an RC.


If I might offer my advice - I think you get a lot of benefit, both in appearance to the community and in testing the game, from the open/public betas.

I think this particular instance was
a.) A 'major' feature that you might have been better off to 'hold back' for 2008; and
b.) A feature of sufficient scope to warrant being the 'first build' of a new beta/RC cycle rather than an addition to a late, stable RC build.

Both of those feel more like a 'release process' thing with this particular release than a problem with the open beta patches.

I'd counsel giving it a week or three, and making a final decision about this when you're less keenly feeling the 'egg on the face' effect, and really weight the benefits vs the risks; closed beta, open RC might be a good path, or maybe a cycle like 'closed alpha, open beta', with your hand-picked comrades on the alpha cycle and the entire community getting to see the betas.





Right on the money as usual. I overreacted.

Dear PureSim community, please forgive me :)

I'll get 1.37 beta out tonight or in the AM.



_____________________________

Developer, PureSim Baseball

(in reply to Amaroq)
Post #: 18
RE: A word on betas / future releases - 9/9/2006 4:38:50 AM   
sposfan

 

Posts: 212
Joined: 4/13/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: puresimmer


Right on the money as usual. I overreacted.

Dear PureSim community, please forgive me :)

I'll get 1.37 beta out tonight or in the AM.




bout time! I think we can find it in our hearts to forgive you this one time, but that's it. No more mulligans!

I'm glad to see you've reconsidered your stance on betas, I must say I've become quite addicted to it and wish more companies would do it the same way. The most important part of it is that you clearly state that it is a BETA and everyone has the option not to download a beta and wait for the official release.

(in reply to puresimmer)
Post #: 19
RE: A word on betas / future releases - 9/9/2006 8:25:20 AM   
Leegen


Posts: 27
Joined: 7/1/2006
Status: offline 		Hooray!  Thanks Shaun.  Once again now I can go to bed and toss and turn knowing there's going to be something under the tree when i get up in the morning.  i can't wait!  Seriously I appreciate you putting up with our crankiness, fussiness and downright spoiled bratness enough to keep us in the loop.  We sometimes get so caught up in the constant desire for improvements and an unattainable perfection that we forget to count our blessings in general and in the puresim community in particular.  Thanks for your unfailing and ongoing efforts to keep up with our insatiable hunger for refinements.

< Message edited by Leegen -- 9/9/2006 8:28:06 AM >

_____________________________

"But sir, how would that make him a better general?" Lee to Longstreet's request to courtmartial Stuart for disobeying orders.

(in reply to sposfan)
Post #: 20
RE: A word on betas / future releases - 9/9/2006 4:12:27 PM   
torque561

 

Posts: 61
Joined: 10/19/2005
Status: offline 		Great news. I appreciate all you have done. I know that you stand above all the other games in customer service.

(in reply to puresimmer)
Post #: 21
Just another Thanks - 9/11/2006 1:26:31 AM   
jearly


Posts: 30
Joined: 8/19/2005
Status: offline 		Thanks Shaun,
I personally look forward to the betas. While I do not always download one after the other. I do get about every 2nd or third. Also depends on what's been fixed, or tweaked.
Great job on those posts. Just wanted to offer my thanks for all your work.
Jeff

(in reply to puresimmer)
Post #: 22
RE: A word on betas / future releases - 9/11/2006 1:35:53 AM   
rpommier


Posts: 71
Joined: 4/29/2005
Status: offline 		Sweet!

Get going on 2008 I'll have my money ready

(in reply to puresimmer)
Post #: 23
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