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OT-Decision Games WitP - 9/12/2006 9:46:53 AM   
Jim D Burns


Posts: 4013
Joined: 2/25/2002
From: Salida, CA.
Status: offline 		What a great day, I opened my door to find a package that weighed roughly 12 pounds sitting on my porch and puzzled what on earth it could be. To my great surprise it was my pre-ordered copy of Decision Games remake of SPI’s old War in the Pacific board game.

Of course I spent the past few hours pouring over all the goodies inside the box and figured I’d post a first impressions thread here for everyones perusal. As I mentioned above my very first impression was the sheer weight and size of the game.

12 pounds is the heaviest game I’ve ever owned, and I’m not kidding about the weight. I placed it on my bathroom scale and it weighed in around 13-14 pounds. Given the low tech bathroom scale I figured I’d be conservative and state it was at least 12 full pounds.

The game box is at least the size of two of the old SPI boxes laid side by side, probably larger. Definitely not a bookshelf box, this puppies going to have to go on a top shelf somewhere.

Inside are 8,960 unit counters and seven 34”x22” beautiful colored maps. But to my great surprise there are also twentyfour 11”x17” Tactical maps that display EVERY single island and atoll (it says over 300 on the game box) in the entire Pacific (including places like Corregidor or Hong Kong) in much smaller detail than the 40-60 nautical mile scale of the larger strategic game maps. The tactical maps range from 0.5 – 10 nautical miles per hex in scale allowing you to play out the longer battles on places like Guadalcanal that lasted for months without the worry that one retreat result will lose the entire island for you in one phase.

Of course there are tons of charts and tables and log sheets. I’d estimate if all were stacked on top of each other they’d equal three or more inches in height. The rules books and chart books also would exceed 3 inches themselves. All in all, this game is massive.

The game box itself is very heavy gauge cardboard. At least twice as thick as the thickest game boxes I’ve ever seen. I feel confident the box will stand the strain of such heavy component parts much better than game boxes I’ve seen fall apart in the past.

I perused the rules books (there are 2) and noted there have been quite a few changes to the original games design. I’m no where near competent enough on the changes to make any specific comments, but gone are the old supply rules where you were required to keep track of supply on map with actual counters. Instead there is a new command point rule that abstracts supplies in general by limiting the number of actions units can take by the available command points assigned to their parent HQ’s.

So basically if you spend the command points to activate units for a single cycle (13 cycles a year with 4 action phases per cycle), it is simply assumed the required supplies needed are already on hand. Of course merchant shipping is still present, but everything is much more abstracted than before. At least that’s my impression so far, I’ve a lot of reading to do before I can really speak with anything but generalizations right now.

Here’s a screenshot of the terrain key for the tactical maps. I had to reduce the image by 50% to get it within the forums size limitations, but I think it still gives a good impression of how things look.




Now if I can just find some dedicated souls in or near central California who want to give up 2 or 3 years of their lives to play this beast.

Jim




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Jim D Burns -- 9/12/2006 9:50:05 AM >

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RE: OT-Decision Games WitP - 9/12/2006 1:36:54 PM   
Jim D Burns


Posts: 4013
Joined: 2/25/2002
From: Salida, CA.
Status: offline 		I found this AAR of a full campaign game playtest played out while the game was under development. Thought I'd post the link here for your reading pleasure.

http://www.wargalley.com/witp_aar.php

Jim


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RE: OT-Decision Games WitP - 9/12/2006 3:38:22 PM   
Ron Saueracker


Posts: 12121
Joined: 1/28/2002
From: Ottawa, Canada OR Zakynthos Island, Greece
Status: offline 		Maybe you can post the land combat rules! Who knows, maybe that will instigate a few sound changes.

_____________________________





Yammas from The Apo-Tiki Lounge. Future site of WITP AE benders! And then the s--t hit the fan

(in reply to Jim D Burns)
Post #: 3
RE: OT-Decision Games WitP - 9/12/2006 3:38:33 PM   
AmiralLaurent

 

Posts: 3351
Joined: 3/11/2003
From: Near Paris, France
Status: offline 		As for all simulations, I like some things (like the typhoon hitting an area and damaging ships and bases, or the fact that CV aircraft attack in waves, and that Japanese LBA flew with a mix of torps and bombs) and don't others (like the fact that Japanese troops can land in New Guinea, march all the way on the Kokoda Trail and take Port Moresby before the end of December 1941, or the principle or air points simulating 10 AC that you will lose all or nothing).


(in reply to Jim D Burns)
Post #: 4
RE: OT-Decision Games WitP - 9/12/2006 4:09:25 PM   
treespider


Posts: 9796
Joined: 1/30/2005
From: Edgewater, MD
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Ron Saueracker

Maybe you can post the land combat rules! Who knows, maybe that will instigate a few sound changes.



Been real busy with my real life job lately...but I was under the impression the designers essentially took Victory Games Pacific War's land combat rules and used them. At least that was the impression I got after reviewing some of the rules that were posted on Decision games site.

_____________________________

Here's a link to:
Treespider's Grand Campaign of DBB

"It is not the critic who counts, .... The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena..." T. Roosevelt, Paris, 1910

(in reply to Ron Saueracker)
Post #: 5
RE: OT-Decision Games WitP - 9/12/2006 4:53:01 PM   
Mike Scholl

 

Posts: 9349
Joined: 1/1/2003
From: Kansas City, MO
Status: offline 		I have a friend who just recieved it as well. Unfortunately, he's in Atlantic City, New Jersey. Tell you what..., you can set it up at my place in Kansas City and then both fly in weekends to play. How about that?

(in reply to Jim D Burns)
Post #: 6
RE: OT-Decision Games WitP - 9/12/2006 5:18:34 PM   
MarcA


Posts: 1181
Joined: 3/2/2005
From: England
Status: offline 		She looks like a beauty. I would love to own it but I can guarantee my wife would divorce me on the spot if I was to try and set it up in the house, let alone buy it.

You will have to set up an AAR to let us know the progress on how long it takes to push out 8,960 counters . That should keep you out of the bar for a week, right there.

Seriously, if you get a game going an AAR would be great. Plenty of pictures though.

_____________________________


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Post #: 7
RE: OT-Decision Games WitP - 9/12/2006 6:21:40 PM   
Jim D Burns


Posts: 4013
Joined: 2/25/2002
From: Salida, CA.
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mantill
Seriously, if you get a game going an AAR would be great. Plenty of pictures though.


I’d definitely pop for a tripod and digital camera if I ever was to get a game going. You just couldn’t do an AAR for this game justice without some high quality digital images with bold arrows and notes drawn all over them declaring your grand intentions.

I have the time (retired) and space for it but I seriously doubt there’d be any board wargamers within 200 miles of me with a like amount of time to dedicate to a project of this size. I’ll keep an ear open but my comment was more in jest than made with any real hope of finding someone.

10 or 15 years ago my board game group consisted of about 6 regulars and 4-8 irregulars that showed up every weekend for games, but we all drifted apart over the years and I haven’t seen or heard from any of them in almost 10 years now.

I guess PC gaming just killed the group as it probably did for many hobby groups around the globe.

Jim



< Message edited by Jim D Burns -- 9/12/2006 8:04:01 PM >

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Post #: 8
RE: OT-Decision Games WitP - 9/12/2006 6:38:42 PM   
Mike Solli


Posts: 15792
Joined: 10/18/2000
From: the flight deck of the Zuikaku
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Jim D Burns

What a great day, I opened my door to find a package that weighed roughly 12 pounds sitting on my porch and puzzled what on earth it could be. To my great surprise it was my pre-ordered copy of Decision Games remake of SPI’s old War in the Pacific board game.

Of course I spent the past few hours pouring over all the goodies inside the box and figured I’d post a first impressions thread here for everyones perusal. As I mentioned above my very first impression was the sheer weight and size of the game.

12 pounds is the heaviest game I’ve ever owned, and I’m not kidding about the weight. I placed it on my bathroom scale and it weighed in around 13-14 pounds. Given the low tech bathroom scale I figured I’d be conservative and state it was at least 12 full pounds.

The game box is at least the size of two of the old SPI boxes laid side by side, probably larger. Definitely not a bookshelf box, this puppies going to have to go on a top shelf somewhere.

Inside are 8,960 unit counters and seven 34”x22” beautiful colored maps. But to my great surprise there are also twentyfour 11”x17” Tactical maps that display EVERY single island and atoll (it says over 300 on the game box) in the entire Pacific (including places like Corregidor or Hong Kong) in much smaller detail than the 40-60 nautical mile scale of the larger strategic game maps. The tactical maps range from 0.5 – 10 nautical miles per hex in scale allowing you to play out the longer battles on places like Guadalcanal that lasted for months without the worry that one retreat result will lose the entire island for you in one phase.

Of course there are tons of charts and tables and log sheets. I’d estimate if all were stacked on top of each other they’d equal three or more inches in height. The rules books and chart books also would exceed 3 inches themselves. All in all, this game is massive.

The game box itself is very heavy gauge cardboard. At least twice as thick as the thickest game boxes I’ve ever seen. I feel confident the box will stand the strain of such heavy component parts much better than game boxes I’ve seen fall apart in the past.

I perused the rules books (there are 2) and noted there have been quite a few changes to the original games design. I’m no where near competent enough on the changes to make any specific comments, but gone are the old supply rules where you were required to keep track of supply on map with actual counters. Instead there is a new command point rule that abstracts supplies in general by limiting the number of actions units can take by the available command points assigned to their parent HQ’s.

So basically if you spend the command points to activate units for a single cycle (13 cycles a year with 4 action phases per cycle), it is simply assumed the required supplies needed are already on hand. Of course merchant shipping is still present, but everything is much more abstracted than before. At least that’s my impression so far, I’ve a lot of reading to do before I can really speak with anything but generalizations right now.

Here’s a screenshot of the terrain key for the tactical maps. I had to reduce the image by 50% to get it within the forums size limitations, but I think it still gives a good impression of how things look.




Now if I can just find some dedicated souls in or near central California who want to give up 2 or 3 years of their lives to play this beast.

Jim





Lucky you. I'm still waiting for my copy, although I did see my credit card has been billed so it should be here anytime. At Origins last July, I saw a copy of it and had the opportunity to check it all out. Can't wait! My son graduates from high school in 1.5 yrs and will go to college. He has the biggest bedroom in the house, much bigger than my current war room. It's big enough for this game. That'll give me plenty of time to cut out and sort all the counters.

(in reply to Jim D Burns)
Post #: 9
RE: OT-Decision Games WitP - 9/12/2006 7:03:47 PM   
Oliver Heindorf


Posts: 1911
Joined: 5/1/2002
From: Hamburg/Deutschland
Status: offline 		uh-em, how much was this one ?

I ask, becasue I saw it online, for cheap € 481,--

thats just cheap 610 bucks, hey what the hell....counters made of gold or what


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Post #: 10
RE: OT-Decision Games WitP - 9/12/2006 7:07:48 PM   
Cap Mandrake


Posts: 23184
Joined: 11/15/2002
From: Southern California
Status: offline 		Good Lord in Heaven. What is the scale on that map of Hong Kong??

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Post #: 11
RE: OT-Decision Games WitP - 9/12/2006 7:15:27 PM   
Jim D Burns


Posts: 4013
Joined: 2/25/2002
From: Salida, CA.
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Oliver Heindorf
uh-em, how much was this one ?


Definitely not cheap at a regular price of $420.00 listed on the games main page here:

http://www.decisiongames.com/html/war_in_the_pacific.html

The pre-order price of $340.00 is still good until 14 Sep. according to this page:

http://www.decisiongames.com/html/whats_new_.html

Personally I don’t think the game is too pricey considering they will probably not even sell 500 of these games. They’ve spent years working on it so I don’t think their price is unreasonable considering most board games sell for well over $100.00 these days.

Don’t get me wrong I know it is very expensive but the unique nature of the title and the sheer size of it merits the unique price I think.

Jim



< Message edited by Jim D Burns -- 9/12/2006 7:16:36 PM >

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RE: OT-Decision Games WitP - 9/12/2006 7:37:38 PM   
Jim D Burns


Posts: 4013
Joined: 2/25/2002
From: Salida, CA.
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

Good Lord in Heaven. What is the scale on that map of Hong Kong??


The tactical maps of the islands range from 0.5 to 10 nautical miles per hex. Hong Kong is 1 mile per hex, Singapore is 3 miles per hex and Guadalcanal is 5 miles per hex for examples.

There seems to be no real rhyme or reason to scales chosen and it probably had more to do with what cartography sources Joe Youst had available during map designs than anything else. For instance here’s an incomplete image of the Bataan Corregidor map (couldn’t fit the entire map on scanner but got most of it) that comes in at 1.3 miles per hex. Image 50% reduced from original scan:




I hope I get to fight it out on this map some day. I LOVE the idea of detailed combat resolution instead of the huge 1 hex abstractions Matrix’s WitP uses.

Jim





Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Jim D Burns -- 9/12/2006 7:39:31 PM >

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Post #: 13
RE: OT-Decision Games WitP - 9/12/2006 8:03:39 PM   
Sardonic

 

Posts: 215
Joined: 12/1/2005
Status: offline 		Decision Games is the heir to all the old SPI games.
Anyone who has owned the old SPI WitP can easily port to DG's.

It doesnt take two years to play the game. Most of the game is like the war, spent waiting.
Waiting for the CV, the Monsoon to end, the supply to get there, the production runs to fill out your air units.
The Airbase to be constructed.

I would say it takes 160 hours of concentrated playing to reach a verdict.

(in reply to Jim D Burns)
Post #: 14
RE: OT-Decision Games WitP - 9/12/2006 8:37:45 PM   
Mike Solli


Posts: 15792
Joined: 10/18/2000
From: the flight deck of the Zuikaku
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Jim D Burns

I found this AAR of a full campaign game playtest played out while the game was under development. Thought I'd post the link here for your reading pleasure.

http://www.wargalley.com/witp_aar.php

Jim



Pretty cool AAR. I wanted to print it out so I copied it to a Word document. 292 pages. I guess not.

(in reply to Jim D Burns)
Post #: 15
RE: OT-Decision Games WitP - 9/12/2006 8:48:41 PM   
argaur


Posts: 277
Joined: 5/13/2005
From: Spain
Status: offline 		more screenshots please!

_____________________________


"... tell the Emperor that I am facing Russians.
If they had been Prussians, I'd have taken the
position long ago."
- Marshal Ney, 1813

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Post #: 16
RE: OT-Decision Games WitP - 9/12/2006 9:16:07 PM   
Jim D Burns


Posts: 4013
Joined: 2/25/2002
From: Salida, CA.
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Beren

more screenshots please!


A tall order given the sheer scope of the game and its components, what would you like to see?

Jim

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Post #: 17
RE: OT-Decision Games WitP - 9/12/2006 9:26:26 PM   
argaur


Posts: 277
Joined: 5/13/2005
From: Spain
Status: offline 		japan or new guinea for example

_____________________________


"... tell the Emperor that I am facing Russians.
If they had been Prussians, I'd have taken the
position long ago."
- Marshal Ney, 1813

(in reply to Jim D Burns)
Post #: 18
RE: OT-Decision Games WitP - 9/12/2006 9:27:57 PM   
Cap Mandrake


Posts: 23184
Joined: 11/15/2002
From: Southern California
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

Lucky you. I'm still waiting for my copy, although I did see my credit card has been billed so it should be here anytime. At Origins last July, I saw a copy of it and had the opportunity to check it all out. Can't wait! My son graduates from high school in 1.5 yrs and will go to college. He has the biggest bedroom in the house, much bigger than my current war room. It's big enough for this game. That'll give me plenty of time to cut out and sort all the counters.


Mike;

Isn't your son going to want to come home for Thanksgiving and Christmas? What if he comes home late one night and gets a couple of Batallions of Imp Guard Div caught between his toes or kicks the Bataan Peninsula into the closet?

(in reply to Mike Solli)
Post #: 19
RE: OT-Decision Games WitP - 9/12/2006 9:31:32 PM   
Cap Mandrake


Posts: 23184
Joined: 11/15/2002
From: Southern California
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sardonic

Decision Games is the heir to all the old SPI games.
Anyone who has owned the old SPI WitP can easily port to DG's.

It doesnt take two years to play the game. Most of the game is like the war, spent waiting.
Waiting for the CV, the Monsoon to end, the supply to get there, the production runs to fill out your air units.
The Airbase to be constructed.

I would say it takes 160 hours of concentrated playing to reach a verdict.




160 hrs? You must be kidding.

On the other hand..that is 4 weeks of 8 hr days.

(in reply to Sardonic)
Post #: 20
RE: OT-Decision Games WitP - 9/12/2006 9:33:09 PM   
Mike Solli


Posts: 15792
Joined: 10/18/2000
From: the flight deck of the Zuikaku
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

Lucky you. I'm still waiting for my copy, although I did see my credit card has been billed so it should be here anytime. At Origins last July, I saw a copy of it and had the opportunity to check it all out. Can't wait! My son graduates from high school in 1.5 yrs and will go to college. He has the biggest bedroom in the house, much bigger than my current war room. It's big enough for this game. That'll give me plenty of time to cut out and sort all the counters.


Mike;

Isn't your son going to want to come home for Thanksgiving and Christmas? What if he comes home late one night and gets a couple of Batallions of Imp Guard Div caught between his toes or kicks the Bataan Peninsula into the closet?


He gets the current war room. He knew that when we moved into the house in 1996, when he was 6 yrs old. Originally, the "deal" was so I could play the SPI WitP. I sold that one (for about $200!) to help fund this one.

(in reply to Cap Mandrake)
Post #: 21
RE: OT-Decision Games WitP - 9/12/2006 9:55:29 PM   
Jim D Burns


Posts: 4013
Joined: 2/25/2002
From: Salida, CA.
Status: offline 		Terrain key, 100%.




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Jim D Burns -- 9/12/2006 9:58:31 PM >

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Post #: 22
RE: OT-Decision Games WitP - 9/12/2006 9:55:46 PM   
Jim D Burns


Posts: 4013
Joined: 2/25/2002
From: Salida, CA.
Status: offline 		Java area at 100% scan.




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Jim D Burns -- 9/12/2006 9:59:21 PM >

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Post #: 23
RE: OT-Decision Games WitP - 9/12/2006 9:55:59 PM   
Jim D Burns


Posts: 4013
Joined: 2/25/2002
From: Salida, CA.
Status: offline 		China area 50% scan.




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Jim D Burns -- 9/12/2006 10:00:10 PM >

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Post #: 24
RE: OT-Decision Games WitP - 9/12/2006 9:56:26 PM   
Jim D Burns


Posts: 4013
Joined: 2/25/2002
From: Salida, CA.
Status: offline 		NewGuinea area 50% scan.




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Jim D Burns -- 9/12/2006 10:01:08 PM >

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Post #: 25
RE: OT-Decision Games WitP - 9/12/2006 9:56:40 PM   
Jim D Burns


Posts: 4013
Joined: 2/25/2002
From: Salida, CA.
Status: offline 		Northern Japan area 50% scan.

The rest of Japan is along a map fold. These game maps are huge, I displayed Java and the terrain key at 100% to give you an idea of how huge. I don't want to risk tearing them trying to get the scanner images, so these 5 were the best choices at the least risk to my maps. Hope you enjoy them.

Jim




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Jim D Burns -- 9/12/2006 10:03:48 PM >

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Post #: 26
RE: OT-Decision Games WitP - 9/12/2006 10:03:46 PM   
mlees


Posts: 2263
Joined: 9/20/2003
From: San Diego
Status: offline 		Aahh! The days of yore. Sigh. I live in a small one bedroom apartment. I have to play my stuff on the PC due to space constraints. But there is something to be said about rolling your own dice and knocking over stacks of units. Sigh.

(in reply to Jim D Burns)
Post #: 27
RE: OT-Decision Games WitP - 9/12/2006 10:46:03 PM   
Przemcio231


Posts: 1901
Joined: 10/11/2005
From: Warsaw,Poland,EU:)
Status: offline 		maybe some pic of the Counters please

_____________________________



Pinky: Hey Brain what are we goeing to do this evening?
Brain: The Usual Pinky we will try to take over the World;)

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Post #: 28
RE: OT-Decision Games WitP - 9/12/2006 11:02:18 PM   
Mike Solli


Posts: 15792
Joined: 10/18/2000
From: the flight deck of the Zuikaku
Status: offline 		Those counters are purty.

(in reply to Przemcio231)
Post #: 29
RE: OT-Decision Games WitP - 9/12/2006 11:44:55 PM   
Nikademus


Posts: 25684
Joined: 5/27/2000
From: Alien spacecraft
Status: offline 		3 dogs and one stupid cat........

i'll stick with the computer over counters.....talk about a battle you cannot win.....

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Post #: 30
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