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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> War In The Pacific - Struggle Against Japan 1941 - 1945 >> The War Room >> Logistics Page: [1]
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Logistics - 9/14/2006 9:33:28 PM   
Gibbons

 

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Joined: 9/14/2006
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Greetings. I've had this game about three weeks, the first two spent studying the game manual (and even that isn't enough). I've considered myself a Grognard in the past but this game makes all the rest look like checkers! Incredible depth.

Couple Qs.

1-Any way to unload a specific amount of fuel or supplies(cargo), rather than the whole vessel unloading at a destination.

2-Is there a list of the ground units somewhere that spells out its function, where to use it, etc... I found the list of ship types and downloaded it but can't find a FAQ on LCUs. And yes I have been looking. I can tell what most of them are for but would like to find a definitive list if it exists.


Thanks in advance.

Gibbons
Post #: 1
RE: Logistics - 9/14/2006 9:53:14 PM   
Terminus


Posts: 41459
Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Denmark
Status: offline 		1 - No. The only way is to keep track of how much it's unloaded, and stop it in time.

2 - No list that I'm aware of. Any specific units you're not sure about?

_____________________________

We are all dreams of the Giant Space Butterfly.

(in reply to Gibbons)
Post #: 2
RE: Logistics - 9/14/2006 10:21:31 PM   
AmiralLaurent

 

Posts: 3351
Joined: 3/11/2003
From: Near Paris, France
Status: offline 		For 2, you have a button to see all ground units, you can then choose a particular type of unit:

_ Infantry is obvious. It includes cavalry IIRC, but there is no big difference in the game, and also paratroops (that may be dropped by transport aircraft)

_ Armor is obvious

_ Artillery is divided into Field artillery (ART), coastal guns (CD) and AA units (AA). Just as a side note, CD units have also good AA ratings most of the time.

And then it became complicated

_ there are a lot of various type of HQ :
1) Ground HQ are divided into 3 layers: Area, Army and Corps. Area HQ will draw supplies and provide replacements to units in range, Army will provide bonus to units, Corps will mainly provide support squads IIRC.
2) Air HQ all work the same, their main interest enabling air units to fly in bigger numbers (in fact, if an air unit isn't in range of an air HQ, it flies at -25%). Some air HQ have a range of 1 (meaning they only affect the hex they are in), other a greater range
3) Naval HQ effect is to increase the size of port they are for all game purposes (repair and loading/unloading)

_ the engineer units also cover several type of units:
1) Base Forces provide air support, depending of their size. They also have AA and sometimes CD guns, and a small infantry force (when at full strength)
2) Assault Engineer units are used to destroy enemy fortifications in battle
3) Construction units are useful to build port, AF and fortifications, and also to repair bases. They only have generic "Engineer" squads, while the Assault Engineer units will have these and specialized Engineers (for example IJA Engineer for Japan) that are combat units.
Assault engineers are useful to build bases, but construction ones are useless to attack enemy ones.

I think it's all.

If you start planning, remember that each big combat force will need at least 1 HQ to have enough support squads (LCU have not enough by themselves).

(in reply to Terminus)
Post #: 3
RE: Logistics - 9/14/2006 10:23:43 PM   
tsimmonds


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quote:

1-Any way to unload a specific amount of fuel or supplies(cargo), rather than the whole vessel unloading at a destination.


Sure! Don't load the vessel full to begin with. But you have to keep your eye on it, either while loading or while unloading, if you don't want a whole shipload.

It helps to keep in mind that loading/unloading can take several turns. A level 1 port can only load/unload 200 points of supplies or fuel per ship per turn.

_____________________________

Fear the kitten!

(in reply to Gibbons)
Post #: 4
RE: Logistics - 9/14/2006 11:34:26 PM   
wdolson

 

Posts: 10398
Joined: 6/28/2006
From: Near Portland, OR
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quote:

ORIGINAL: AmiralLaurent
3) Construction units are useful to build port, AF and fortifications, and also to repair bases. They only have generic "Engineer" squads, while the Assault Engineer units will have these and specialized Engineers (for example IJA Engineer for Japan) that are combat units.
Assault engineers are useful to build bases, but construction ones are useless to attack enemy ones.


This brings up a question I've had. Early in my game, I sent a unit that had Assault engineers, but no construction engineers to a base. They were the only engineers at the base. The base display sceen said there were 75 engineers (or something like that at the base), but they didn't construct anything. They wouldn't even construct fortifications. They sat there for a month and didn't do anything.

Bill

(in reply to AmiralLaurent)
Post #: 5
RE: Logistics - 9/14/2006 11:36:35 PM   
Terminus


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Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Denmark
Status: offline 		That's because they're Assault Engineers, not Construction Engineers. It's the same difference as in the Wehrmacht between Pioniere (Assault Engineers) and Bautruppen (Construction Engineers). The former destroys, the latter builds.

_____________________________

We are all dreams of the Giant Space Butterfly.

(in reply to wdolson)
Post #: 6
RE: Logistics - 9/15/2006 12:12:21 AM   
SireChaos

 

Posts: 710
Joined: 8/14/2006
From: Frankfurt, Germany
Status: offline 		For Engineer-type you´ll have to keep in mind, too, that the "Aviation" units (e.g. "No. 225 RAF Aviation" or "1st Aviation Rgt") do *not* come with actual engineers, just with lots and lots of Aviation Support and Support units - around 200 usually, IIRC. So it´s no use sending them to expand an airfielt.

Basically, there are these types of engineer units, AFAIK:

Base Forces, used mainly for supporting aircraft, with (usually) moderate number of Aviation Support, some Engineers, plus Support, some infantry/marines/SNLF, flak, and maybe a radar. Japanese Special Base Forces are bigger and have a higher Engineer complement. IIRC Base Forces are the only unit type to have radars.
Construction Units, used mainly for repairs and expansions, with Engineers, Support and a few infantry squads. Allied EAB and SeeBee units are the same but pack a bigger (constructive) punch.
Engineer Regiments, used mainly for combat purposes, with a good complement of both Engineers and their nation´s Engineer Squads, i.e. they can do both construction and destruction equally well. Never leave home without them.
Aviation Units, as mentioned, for big airbases with lots of aircraft, lots of Aviation Support and Support units, but *no* Engineers. You´ll still want a Base Force to be with them, for repairs and radar coverage.

(in reply to Terminus)
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RE: Logistics - 9/16/2006 11:08:02 AM   
Gibbons

 

Posts: 46
Joined: 9/14/2006
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Thanks, those responses cleared up alot. I'd forgotten about the view/all LCU button. Comes in quite handy!

Just getting the whole AP/load limit thing sorted out. I started a whole war campaign and just to get going I created a few very large TFs with APs, AKs, and TKs on the West Coast and started loading. Better to do cargo and troops seperately I have found out. However, even my fumbling has a huge amount of supplies and fuel headed to PH.

One other thing I'm wonderng, what is the difference between oil and fuel in the game. I know fuel is refined for ships, but is oil only usefull for industry? And as the U.S. building program is automatic is there any reason to wory about oil, other than keeping the Japanese from getting their hands on it?

The line I've decided to defend early on is PH, Palmyra, Canton, Pago-Pago, Suva, Oz.
The IJN has moved all the way down into Apamama already. Not even Christmas yet!
The Lex and Enterprise are harrassing Tarawa, and it appears there is a good fight going on for Rabaul.

Thanks again for the help.

Gibbons

(in reply to SireChaos)
Post #: 8
RE: Logistics - 9/16/2006 11:39:41 AM   
wdolson

 

Posts: 10398
Joined: 6/28/2006
From: Near Portland, OR
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Gibbons
Just getting the whole AP/load limit thing sorted out. I started a whole war campaign and just to get going I created a few very large TFs with APs, AKs, and TKs on the West Coast and started loading. Better to do cargo and troops seperately I have found out. However, even my fumbling has a huge amount of supplies and fuel headed to PH.

One other thing I'm wonderng, what is the difference between oil and fuel in the game. I know fuel is refined for ships, but is oil only usefull for industry? And as the U.S. building program is automatic is there any reason to wory about oil, other than keeping the Japanese from getting their hands on it?


Oil is not as important to the Allies. However, moving some around can help. Oil and resources are raw materials. If you transport them to a base with heave industry, that base will produce fuel and supplies. There are some heavy industry sites in Australia (Melbourne is pretty good sized if I remember right). Aukland has some as well as some bases in India. Most of the Allied bases with heavy industry produce enough resources to meet their needs, but many are short of oil. Transporting oil to these bases will allow them to produce at maximum capacity and it will take the pressure off your transports from the edges of the map.

As long as it's somewhat safe to get oil out of the DEI, do so. Palambang produces virtually unlimited oil. Transporting as much oil from there to Australian bases with heavy industry will keep them running for many months and possibly a year after the fall of the DEI.

quote:


The line I've decided to defend early on is PH, Palmyra, Canton, Pago-Pago, Suva, Oz.
The IJN has moved all the way down into Apamama already. Not even Christmas yet!
The Lex and Enterprise are harrassing Tarawa, and it appears there is a good fight going on for Rabaul.


If you are playing the AI, it's possible to dramatically slow down the Japanese and possibly even stop them in the DEI. I don't recall where Apamama is. I don't have the game running.

If you can mess with the Japanese in the DEI, you can dramatically shorten the war. Japan needs those resources and oil. The longer you can deny them those resources, the worse their production problems become.

Bill

(in reply to Gibbons)
Post #: 9
RE: Logistics - 9/23/2006 11:19:04 AM   
Gibbons

 

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Joined: 9/14/2006
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Couple more Qs.


-How do you get fuel to landlocked bases. Can't find it anywhere in the manual.


-For AS, AR, etc...these ships just have to be in the same hex as a ship that is being supplied/repaired, AND this hex has to have a base in it? Its hard to tell if ships are repairing.


Thanks

Gibbons





< Message edited by Gibbons -- 9/23/2006 11:24:18 AM >

(in reply to wdolson)
Post #: 10
RE: Logistics - 9/23/2006 12:48:53 PM   
Yakface


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Joined: 8/5/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: AmiralLaurent


1) Ground HQ are divided into 3 layers: Area, Army and Corps. Area HQ will draw supplies and provide replacements to units in range, Army will provide bonus to units, Corps will mainly provide support squads IIRC.



How Does this relate to the Japanese? IIRC they only have two sorts of HQ's: Command and Corps (although some HQ's are called 14th Army for example - they turn out to simply be Corps HQ).


(in reply to AmiralLaurent)
Post #: 11
RE: Logistics - 9/23/2006 1:10:53 PM   
AmiralLaurent

 

Posts: 3351
Joined: 3/11/2003
From: Near Paris, France
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Yakface


quote:

ORIGINAL: AmiralLaurent


1) Ground HQ are divided into 3 layers: Area, Army and Corps. Area HQ will draw supplies and provide replacements to units in range, Army will provide bonus to units, Corps will mainly provide support squads IIRC.



How Does this relate to the Japanese? IIRC they only have two sorts of HQ's: Command and Corps (although some HQ's are called 14th Army for example - they turn out to simply be Corps HQ).




IIRC correctly there are 3 level of HQ in Japanese forces too:
_ Area (ex: Burma Army, China Expetionnay Army): these HQ are command HQ, have a range more than 1 and will draw supplies into a base. And you can affect an unit to them. For reinforcement they are the HQ that count (for the range).
_ there is then a second level: Area Army HQ (the Allied 'Army' level). These HQ have a range and are of the Command type, but won't draw supplies to a base, and have no impact on the ability of Japanese troops to receive reinforcements.
_ the third level is the Japanese Army HQ (the Allied 'Corps' level): they are Corps HQ in the game with a range of 1 (IIRC) so only having an effect on the troops in the same hex as them. Again they won't draw supplies to a base, and have no impact on the ability of Japanese troops to receive reinforcements.

Ideally, Corps-level HQ should be on the battlefield, Army-level HQ should be some hex behind the frontline (to influence it and also rear bases supporting it) and Area-level HQ should be about 8-9 hexes behind the frontline (they have a range a 9 IIRC).



(in reply to Yakface)
Post #: 12
RE: Logistics - 9/23/2006 4:34:17 PM   
dtravel


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Joined: 7/7/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Gibbons
Couple more Qs.

-How do you get fuel to landlocked bases. Can't find it anywhere in the manual.

-For AS, AR, etc...these ships just have to be in the same hex as a ship that is being supplied/repaired, AND this hex has to have a base in it? Its hard to tell if ships are repairing.


Thanks

Gibbons


Supplying inland bases. You don't. First, you don't need fuel for anything but ships so there's no need for it to go inland. Supply (and Oil and Resources) will be moved automatically by the program. But some supply gets used up moving it from base to base and the distance it will go s limited. One of he manual sections covers this but the short version is don't expect supply to move more than a couple of hexes except along the rail lines. Also keep in mind that many players feel the movement of supplies is an incomplete feature, moving too much to places where they don't want it and not enough to places they do want it.

Repair ships of any type need to be disbanded in port to help repairs. And yes, it is hard to tell if ships are repairing. It is a slow process taking months (or in extreme cases even years). There is also a severe lack of hard information on the whole thing.

_____________________________

This game does not have a learning curve. It has a learning cliff.

"Bomb early, bomb often, bomb everything." - Niceguy

Any bugs I report are always straight stock games.


(in reply to Gibbons)
Post #: 13
RE: Logistics - 9/23/2006 4:37:55 PM   
dtravel


Posts: 4533
Joined: 7/7/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: AmiralLaurent


quote:

ORIGINAL: Yakface


quote:

ORIGINAL: AmiralLaurent


1) Ground HQ are divided into 3 layers: Area, Army and Corps. Area HQ will draw supplies and provide replacements to units in range, Army will provide bonus to units, Corps will mainly provide support squads IIRC.



How Does this relate to the Japanese? IIRC they only have two sorts of HQ's: Command and Corps (although some HQ's are called 14th Army for example - they turn out to simply be Corps HQ).




IIRC correctly there are 3 level of HQ in Japanese forces too:
_ Area (ex: Burma Army, China Expetionnay Army): these HQ are command HQ, have a range more than 1 and will draw supplies into a base. And you can affect an unit to them. For reinforcement they are the HQ that count (for the range).
_ there is then a second level: Area Army HQ (the Allied 'Army' level). These HQ have a range and are of the Command type, but won't draw supplies to a base, and have no impact on the ability of Japanese troops to receive reinforcements.
_ the third level is the Japanese Army HQ (the Allied 'Corps' level): they are Corps HQ in the game with a range of 1 (IIRC) so only having an effect on the troops in the same hex as them. Again they won't draw supplies to a base, and have no impact on the ability of Japanese troops to receive reinforcements.

Ideally, Corps-level HQ should be on the battlefield, Army-level HQ should be some hex behind the frontline (to influence it and also rear bases supporting it) and Area-level HQ should be about 8-9 hexes behind the frontline (they have a range a 9 IIRC).


Unless someone has discovered a serious change, there are only two levels of HQ affecting assault strength. Corp and Army. An "Area" HQ will function as an Army HQ is none is available and a Corp HQ is. An Army or "Area" HQ will function as a Corp HQ is none is available. This is true for both sides.

_____________________________

This game does not have a learning curve. It has a learning cliff.

"Bomb early, bomb often, bomb everything." - Niceguy

Any bugs I report are always straight stock games.


(in reply to AmiralLaurent)
Post #: 14
RE: Logistics - 9/23/2006 9:35:38 PM   
Gibbons

 

Posts: 46
Joined: 9/14/2006
Status: offline 		Thanks Travel.

I like the tagline, "This game does not have a learning curve. It has a learning cliff."


Gibbons 

(in reply to dtravel)
Post #: 15
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